These are the Voyages

[kirkfan]

While I'm sure that TNG fans were happy to see Riker, Troi, and the Enterprise-D again, I don't recall any of them (or anyone at all, in fact) praising the ep just because they were in it.

I did, and still do. Only, I'm not convinced that the TNGers were praising the episode strictly because of Riker and Troi.

I saw a lot of love for TaTV coming from TNG fans. Stiil do. Believe me, it wasn't Ent fans who voted for TaTV to the point that it ended up in that "Captain's Log" thing, whatever that was or is.

Sounds like they lapped it up to me.

I haven't seen any love for TATV from TNG fans.
TNG fans voted TATV onto the "Captain's log" compilation because they had to include an ENT episode in their vote. Their attitude seems to be that ENT was a worthless show, but at least TATV had TNG characters in it.

I thought that Riker and Deanna didn't believe in what they were saying, like they were on vacation or something... Acting takes a holiday.

 

[gblews]

While I'm sure that TNG fans were happy to see Riker, Troi, and the Enterprise-D again, I don't recall any of them (or anyone at all, in fact) praising the ep just because they were in it.

I did, and still do. Only, I'm not convinced that the TNGers were praising the episode strictly because of Riker and Troi.

I saw a lot of love for TaTV coming from TNG fans. Stiil do. Believe me, it wasn't Ent fans who voted for TaTV to the point that it ended up in that "Captain's Log" thing, whatever that was or is.

Sounds like they lapped it up to me.

I haven't seen any love for TATV from TNG fans.
TNG fans voted TATV onto the "Captain's log" compilation because they had to include an ENT episode in their vote. Their attitude seems to be that ENT was a worthless show, but at least TATV had TNG characters in it.

Lapped it up.

 

[kirkfan]

I did, and still do. Only, I'm not convinced that the TNGers were praising the episode strictly because of Riker and Troi.

I saw a lot of love for TaTV coming from TNG fans. Stiil do. Believe me, it wasn't Ent fans who voted for TaTV to the point that it ended up in that "Captain's Log" thing, whatever that was or is.

Sounds like they lapped it up to me.

I haven't seen any love for TATV from TNG fans.
TNG fans voted TATV onto the "Captain's log" compilation because they had to include an ENT episode in their vote. Their attitude seems to be that ENT was a worthless show, but at least TATV had TNG characters in it.

Lapped it up.

That's too bad, there were quite a few ep. that were way better than this one.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

That's too bad, there were quite a few ep. that were way better than this one.

Yeah no, there were like 97 episodes better than TATV, if you ask me. "Extinction" was better. "A Night in Sickbay" was way better.

If TATV had been a good story, that might have helped. Spock died in Star Trek II, but it was structurally sound, a good story, sad but emotionally satisfying, and thematically very strong. Jack Sowards (the screenwriter) retconned "Space Seed" just enough to include Chekov in the original scenario, but it didn't derail the entire idea of resurrecting 60s Khan and sticking him in 80s Trek.

STII satisfied me. It didn't personally offend me like TATV did, with characters that were out of character, plotlines jettisoned without explanation, discontinuity weirdness like the lack of promotions and the tie-in to "The Pegasus" that made no sense, Trip croaking himself stupidly and needlessly after Macgyvering his way out of a jam with ease just one episode earlier. And Riker molesting T'Pol.

Oh yeah, really urgent problem to be solved, so it obviously requires feeling up a hologram. Ick. Blech. Brain scrub, stat.

TATV wasn't a fond farewell, or a sad and sweet good-bye. It was dopey. It was the epitome of a show written to please someone other than Enterprise's fans, a cardinal sin. And they can't get out of jail free with that lame "No no, sure, 'Demons/Terra Prime' was the ENT finale" excuse. Not when they used TATV to invalidate so much of what made those episodes work well. They gave ENT fans a train wreck as a good-bye.

"Similitude" would have been good for that Captain's Log thing - it was a critical and fan favorite, and it showed Archer being tested. Or "Twilight," or "Damage." I find it very hard to believe Bakula chose TATV. It was dopey.

 

[kirkfan]

That's too bad, there were quite a few ep. that were way better than this one.

Yeah no, there were like 97 episodes better than TATV, if you ask me. "Extinction" was better. "A Night in Sickbay" was way better.

If TATV had been a good story, that might have helped. Spock died in Star Trek II, but it was structurally sound, a good story, sad but emotionally satisfying, and thematically very strong. Jack Sowards (the screenwriter) retconned "Space Seed" just enough to include Chekov in the original scenario, but it didn't derail the entire idea of resurrecting 60s Khan and sticking him in 80s Trek.

STII satisfied me. It didn't personally offend me like TATV did, with characters that were out of character, plotlines jettisoned without explanation, discontinuity weirdness like the lack of promotions and the tie-in to "The Pegasus" that made no sense, Trip croaking himself stupidly and needlessly after Macgyvering his way out of a jam with ease just one episode earlier. And Riker molesting T'Pol.

Oh yeah, really urgent problem to be solved, so it obviously requires feeling up a hologram. Ick. Blech. Brain scrub, stat.

TATV wasn't a fond farewell, or a sad and sweet good-bye. It was dopey. It was the epitome of a show written to please someone other than Enterprise's fans, a cardinal sin. And they can't get out of jail free with that lame "No no, sure, 'Demons/Terra Prime' was the ENT finale" excuse. Not when they used TATV to invalidate so much of what made those episodes work well. They gave ENT fans a train wreck as a good-bye.

"Similitude" would have been good for that Captain's Log thing - it was a critical and fan favorite, and it showed Archer being tested. Or "Twilight," or "Damage." I find it very hard to believe Bakula chose TATV. It was dopey.

They didn't even do the effort of making the crew look older like they did in Twilight.

 

[RoJoHen]

They changed up T'Pol and Hoshi's hairstyles a bit.

I mean, wasn't it only like 6 years later? How old did you expect them to look?

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

What BAKULA supposedly voted for TATV?

Love the gif HopefulRomantic

And the rant

 

[Melakon]

I find it very hard to believe Bakula chose TATV. It was dopey.

He didn't, and anyone who has the Captain's Log Fan Collective knows this, because it clearly says Bakula's only selection is "Judgment".

The episodes "TATV" and "First Flight" are marked as chosen by fans, whoever they were.

 

[kirkfan]

They changed up T'Pol and Hoshi's hairstyles a bit.

I mean, wasn't it only like 6 years later? How old did you expect them to look?

Look at the first season TNG, DS9 and VOY main cast and compare it to the seven season of each series and tell me that there aren't notable differences in each case. Yet it's only six years later, just like here.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

Love the gif HopefulRomantic

And the rant

Thank you. Yes, even I, who managed to find something to love about every episode, have to let off some steam every once in a while about this stupid, stupid thing.

I find it very hard to believe Bakula chose TATV. It was dopey.

He didn't, and anyone who has the Captain's Log Fan Collective knows this, because it clearly says Bakula's only selection is "Judgment".

Thank you for telling me that. (I don't have that Fan Collective, as you can see.) I am so relieved. I know Bakula is endlessly gracious, diplomatic, a team player, but it was so difficult to believe he would go that far. "Judgment," yes, that was a fine episode. I loved seeing J.G. Hertzler again.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Judgement had everything about it that should have been a massive bore to me (based on taste) but it was awesome. Fine acting, fine writing.

 

[DeepSpaceWine]

Question: Did anyone who watched Season 4 first-run (i.e. back in 2004-05) deliberately avoid watching TATV?

I did and I read earlier in the thread some did. I was curious how widespread it was, particularly as I found it odd "Terra Prime" & TATV aired back-to-back and got the same rating (2.2) given how bad the episode was known in advance (or perhaps, people knew it would be bad, but had no idea to the depths of badness it would be). I didn't know if those who were like me who decided to turn off the tv the moment the episode started to spare being insulted for being loyal fans over many years and 4 series were just less in number than 0.1 Nielsen ratings points or if TATV just happened to coincidentally attract a number of fans returning for the series finale comparable to the number of fans who decided to deliberately tune out.

I watched all 97 episodes of ENT (of those, I felt "A Night in Sickbay" was the worst. Give me the cheesy 'bad' eps of TOS, TNG, VOY anytime over that. Even "Shades of Gray" was better in my view), every episode of VOY (dozed off during "Resistance" though), every episode of DS9 when I returned to the series, every episode of TNG when I became a fan. In short, when I became a fan, I tuned in every week or caught the rerun or taped it if I would miss it. The *only* episode I skipped was TATV. Even previews for episodes like "Profit and Lace" or "Ferengi Love Songs" didn't deter me. I was considering giving in and finally watching it but some of the earlier posts describing how scarring it is made me reconsider, LOL.

Was there ever a season of Trek that -was- uniformly high? I must have missed that one.

That's a very good question. There may be a Star Trek season we're overlooking that had consistently had stellar costume & uniform design over the entire season.

 

[RoJoHen]

They changed up T'Pol and Hoshi's hairstyles a bit.

I mean, wasn't it only like 6 years later? How old did you expect them to look?

Look at the first season TNG, DS9 and VOY main cast and compare it to the seven season of each series and tell me that there aren't notable differences in each case. Yet it's only six years later, just like here.

And 6 years ago I looked pretty much identical to how I do now. Some people age differently than others. It would have been weird to force aging on them.

 

[Khan444]

I knew that it was probably going to suck when I learned that B&B were going to be writing it. Really guys, you got rid of the team that made the show actually watchable, only to bring back the two "geniuses" who so badly damaged it in the first place, seriously? And I was right, the episode was a disaster (the end with all of the Captains giving the "Space the final frontier" monologue was the only saving grace).

 

[kirkfan]

They changed up T'Pol and Hoshi's hairstyles a bit.

I mean, wasn't it only like 6 years later? How old did you expect them to look?

Look at the first season TNG, DS9 and VOY main cast and compare it to the seven season of each series and tell me that there aren't notable differences in each case. Yet it's only six years later, just like here.

And 6 years ago I looked pretty much identical to how I do now. Some people age differently than others. It would have been weird to force aging on them.

It was much weirder not to age them at all, not to mention leaving them pretty much at the same position they started ten years before...

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

This is the future, 6 years is barely a thing in ageing now and it will be even less when we have da super medicines.

Anyway they used all their aging makeup on Troi and Riker. Oh wait..

 

[kirkfan]

This is the future, 6 years is barely a thing in ageing now and it will be even less when we have da super medicines.

Anyway they used all their aging makeup on Troi and Riker. Oh wait..

And they did a great job too. They looked about eleven years older than in the original episode...

 

[Darren Mooney]

I knew that it was probably going to suck when I learned that B&B were going to be writing it. Really guys, you got rid of the team that made the show actually watchable, only to bring back the two "geniuses" who so badly damaged it in the first place, seriously? And I was right, the episode was a disaster (the end with all of the Captains giving the "Space the final frontier" monologue was the only saving grace).

Didn't Berman and Braga also write Shuttlepod One and Cogenitor, two of the better-regarded episodes of the entire series?

Yep, they wrote some crap... but that's the reality of television production. For all we love Coto, didn't he write Chosen Realm and Bound?

 

[eyeresist]

That's true. Maybe it was a downside of their relatively hands-off approach in season 4, that they lost a feel for the show.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It was their personal valentine to Star Trek since they were unlikely to get any more gigs in that franchise and for them that meant the glory days of TNG.

Forgot what show this was, methinks.