These are the Voyages

[Willow]

I'm almost entirely certain the Spiner line was new.

Yes, you are right. I recall reading that in an interview .

And eyeresist, good for you for going back and watching the TNG episode. I didn't dare try , because I knew my brain would probably explode, trying to reconcile the 2 episodes! I think there was enough problems with continuity and characterization within the ENT- verse , without introducing TNG into it.

 

[eyeresist]

Willow, I didn't rewatch the TNG episode - just googled "episode name" and "transcript"!

http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/264.htm


I was thinking about how this same concept could have been done better:

What if Riker was making contact with a species that hadn't been seen since ENT days, and he was trying to find out exactly how first contact went? If he was trying to extrapolate from private diaries and the NX-01 ship's log, there could be entertainment in seeing the same event play out from a number of different perspectives.

From the ship's log perspective, the event would play robotically, like a computer program.
For T'Pol, it would be watching her shipmates seem almost deranged from their inability to think straight.
For Reed, it would be living up to the crushing expectations that he thinks Archer has of him.
For Phlox, it would be just a series of medical conditions to be diagnosed.
For Archer, it would be both his crew and aliens constantly bombarding him with complaints and demands.
For Mayweather, it would be just another shift spent staring at a blank screen.

In the end, we get to see the event as it actually played out, both funnier and more moving than any of the individual accounts. I think this would be more faithful to the series, and a better justification for including TNG characters.

 

[Willow]

Willow, I didn't rewatch the TNG episode - just googled "episode name" and "transcript"!

http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/264.htm


I was thinking about how this same concept could have been done better:

What if Riker was making contact with a species that hadn't been seen since ENT days, and he was trying to find out exactly how first contact went? If he was trying to extrapolate from private diaries and the NX-01 ship's log, there could be entertainment in seeing the same event play out from a number of different perspectives.

From the ship's log perspective, the event would play robotically, like a computer program.
For T'Pol, it would be watching her shipmates seem almost deranged from their inability to think straight.
For Reed, it would be living up to the crushing expectations that he thinks Archer has of him.
For Phlox, it would be just a series of medical conditions to be diagnosed.
For Archer, it would be both his crew and aliens constantly bombarding him with complaints and demands.
For Mayweather, it would be just another shift spent staring at a blank screen.

In the end, we get to see the event as it actually played out, both funnier and more moving than any of the individual accounts. I think this would be more faithful to the series, and a better justification for including TNG characters.

Yes, please! I will watch THIS episode! I'm all for anything that explores the character's thoughts and motivations.

Oh,,I think you forgot Trip...(he'd be alive in this episode , right?) . He's probably thinking up some way to get "his" warp 5 engine up to warp 6 or 7.

 

[eyeresist]

Actually, I left out both Trip and Hoshi. I couldn't really think of an interesting way to present their point of view. And they would still feature in all the versions.

It just occurred to me - in T'Pol's version, maybe Trip is always walking around with his shirt off!

 

[Melakon]

For Mayweather, it would be just another shift spent staring at a blank screen.

Excuse me, who?

 

[eyeresist]

I don't know, I forgot. Maybe aliens wiped my memory again...

 

[Willow]

Actually, I left out both Trip and Hoshi. I couldn't really think of an interesting way to present their point of view. And they would still feature in all the versions.

It just occurred to me - in T'Pol's version, maybe Trip is always walking around with his shirt off!

That version i can live with!
And I imagine Hoshi might be constantly second guessing her decision to serve aboard Enterprise instead of continuing her peaceful life in Brazil..or we can see her battling her inner demons of PTSD , or whatever else, as a result of being violated and infected by the Xindi.

For Mayweather, it would be just another shift spent staring at a blank screen.

Excuse me, who?

he's the one , ya know, with the biceps!
And he's probably staring at the screen, cursing under his breath that they didn't install Tetris (I'm not a gamer, so I'm probably aging myself)

 

[K'Toska]

I just don't understand why it was necessary to involve TNG cast members in the finale at all. I guess they were going for some kind of "mind fuck," like, "WHOA! HAS THE SHOW BEEN A SIMULATION OF THE EVENTS ALL THIS TIME?" And yeah, how did Enterprise have that kind of technology? Or was it just a rough outline of the events as recorded in logs?

I know that not every show needs a happy ending, but I don't get why we couldn't see Trip and T'pol in the future with a child. It seems like that would have been a much more natural ending to the series of events that preceded that episode. It honestly felt like the writers were spitting in my face. I could've possibly even accepted that finale if after Trip died, there was some mention of him before Archer gave his speech. Everyone was acting like nothing had happened.

 

[2takesfrakes]

-ENTERPRISE- having had a proper ending with the TERRA PRIME 2-parter allowed for this, what I would call a "Bonus Episode," just to have fun with it. I found These Are the Voyages to be a fun episode, and I was - as well as continue to be - grateful that both Frakes & Siritis agreed to be a part of it. And if Spiner didn't hate the make-up so badly, I'm sure he'd have been a larger part of it, as well.

And believe me, I understand how there would be a certain amount of resentment towards using the Holodeck for this cross-over, that this episode could've brought ENT and TNG together in a more direct and logical manner. But, at the same time, it doesn't offend me as a fan of both shows that this Path of Least Resistance was the way "they" chose to exercise their discretion. What did irk me and continues to be what was done with Trip. And besides that, it would've been nice to see he and T'Pol in a more interesting place than their relationship's led them, years later. 6 years later. But Season 3 touched on their romance and forced it into alternate dimensions, westerns, the whole bit and I guess that's got to suffice.

ENT did a lot worse to itself than TATV, especially with regards to T'Pol/Jolele Blalock. "They" were much more interested in having her take her top off, just to take her top off, rather than really advance the character. And even that wouldn't have been as bad as it was, had it not always been with the hand bra. It was just stupid, why present her this way, it didn't even look cool? But TATV was cool in that it was entertaining. It was fun. And yes, Frakes and Siritis were a bit old for their parts, but as a fan, I appreciated them being there to salute 4 decades or so of STAR TREK, whatever it was at that time. It was very appropriate ...

 

[Melakon]

I know that not every show needs a happy ending, but I don't get why we couldn't see Trip and T'pol in the future with a child. It seems like that would have been a much more natural ending to the series of events that preceded that episode. It honestly felt like the writers were spitting in my face.

Especially when Phlox had previously suggested (in "Terra Prime"?) that human-Vulcan hybrids were possible with some medical science tweaking. But then we still probably would have had the TATV death scene, with a maudlin moment of T'Pol waving little Trip Jr.'s hand whispering "Say goodbye to Daddy."

 

[eyeresist]

But TATV was cool in that it was entertaining. It was fun. And yes, Frakes and Siritis were a bit old for their parts, but as a fan, I appreciated them being there to salute 4 decades or so of STAR TREK, whatever it was at that time. It was very appropriate ...

Bear in mind this is the opinion of someone who hates ENT and loves TNG! People who love ENT tend to feel rather differently...

(No offence intended.)

 

[2takesfrakes]

STAR TREK: The Next Generation was - and continues to be - Gene Roddenberry's pièce de résistance. VOY is probably the most TNG-like of its spin-offs, and I am quite fond of it for that very reason. But when ENT came to T.V., I watched it with great interest. In fact, I'd have to say that Season Three is my favourite and when it became public that ENT was about to be cancelled and I saw history repeating itself as hardcore fans even got politicians involved to $ave the show, I followed their progress.

As a matter of fact, they even got enough money through a KickStart campaign of some sort to pay for Season 5, in its entirety. CBS would've had a FREE show to reap ALL of the profits from and I'd have another year's worth of STAR TREK to entertain me. The desperation of this tactic was deemed to be "distasteful" and put off The Suits at CBS. But the fans tried their best ... it just wasn't in the cards. But the relative freshness of ENT is still very present, however many years later - a decade later. I just feel that TATV is misunderstood, that's all. Bringing in the very best of STAR TREK's legacy was a nice way to button-up the franchise on television - perhaps, even, for All Time.

 

[Dukhat]

As a matter of fact, they even got enough money through a KickStart campaign of some sort to pay for Season 5, in its entirety.

That is not true.

CBS would've had a FREE show to reap ALL of the profits from and I'd have another year's worth of STAR TREK to entertain me.

That is not the reality of how television producers operate.

The desperation of this tactic was deemed to be "distasteful" and put off The Suits at CBS.

That is also not true.

 

[2takesfrakes]

As to the "truthfulness" of fans fronting the ca$h for a fifth season, what can I tell you? I certainly was not one of them and I wasn't coordinating efforts or anywhere in a position to know about any of this, for a solid fact. I just know that it was reported thus to the public and Wikipedia has this to add on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Enterprise_(season_4)

"The cancellation of Enterprise was protested by fans of the series. Actions included around a hundred fans picketing the gates of Paramount Studios. The response to the cancellation was organised on websites such as TrekUnited.com. They raised money which was intended to be used for new Star Trek programming, with $48,000 raised within a month of the cancellation. The website sought to raise $32 million to pay for a full fifth season of the show, but failed to get close only gaining some $87,000 from general donors plus $3 million of anonymous donations from investors who work in the American spaceflight industry. Rallies were also held elsewhere around the world, and a full page advert supporting the show was taken out in the Los Angeles Times. The money was refunded after an unsuccessful campaign, with reportedly only one accidental contact between TrekUnited and Paramount."

 

[Melakon]

$3 million is barely enough to cover two episodes, hardly an entire season.

 

[K'Toska]

Especially when Phlox had previously suggested (in "Terra Prime"?) that human-Vulcan hybrids were possible with some medical science tweaking. But then we still probably would have had the TATV death scene, with a maudlin moment of T'Pol waving little Trip Jr.'s hand whispering "Say goodbye to Daddy."

Exactly. Why even get my damn hopes up about them having a child and then dash it away like that? I could even deal with his death after they had a child if his death had served some kind of purpose. In terms of "pointless deaths," I'd put his up there with Tasha Yar's.

 

[Dukhat]

As to the "truthfulness" of fans fronting the ca$h for a fifth season, what can I tell you?

Obviously not the true facts, as your previous post stated. You said the fans raised enough money to fund an entire fifth season, which was not in the slightest correct.

 

[eyeresist]

But the relative freshness of ENT is still very present, however many years later - a decade later. I just feel that TATV is misunderstood, that's all.

I accept your apology.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Sir.............................

 

[ChristopherPike]

$3 million is barely enough to cover two episodes, hardly an entire season.

Two more episodes? Reach the 100 episode series mark. So a TV Movie basically. It's not a 5th season, but given the right story, to wrap things up... Just the main cast and recurring actors like Combs and Graham. Such a shame, because I'd actually have been really happy with that.