These are the voyages of... what? Really? Who??? Who Cares????

[Christopher]

Well,Sisko and Kira were described as "walking with the prophets" which to my mind at least is comparable to "gone to God" or "at heavens gate".

Dead enough for me.

Or, they were in an alternate dimensional continuum inhabited by extratemporal aliens that fill a godlike role in Bajoran history and culture. No more dead than Sisko was when he was sucked into subspace in "The Visitor," or than Kirk was in interphase in "The Tholian Web."

 

[Idran]

Well,Sisko and Kira were described as "walking with the prophets" which to my mind at least is comparable to "gone to God" or "at heavens gate".

Dead enough for me.

Alternatively to Christopher's post:

Described that way by other people that had no reason to think otherwise. Gerald Ford and Bob Hope had CNN describing them as dead back in 2003, doesn't mean they really were at the time.

 

[Mage]

Count me as another who really likes the relaunch series and the changing continuities. In real life, characters grow, change, move on to other jobs, marry, have children, even die (maybe not come back to life, though!). To me it makes the current Treklit more realistic, in ways that the TV shows and movies often were not.

I would like to see some of the original characters developed more fully, but that's something I hope the authors will work on, not a reason to not read the books.

I also have liked the mix of the old & new characters. There've been a couple I didn't care for but for the most part I've been pleased with the continuing adventurers of these crews. Not all crew members will stay with one ship as with TOS, people get opportunities & promotions (or die) & are replaced. It adds something to the story with new characters interacting with the originals.

Can I put my vote in for this as well?

I really liked quite a lot of the new characters introduced. And it made sense, as well, to see new officers coming to the ships and station, and others leaving. So yeah, keep it up!!

 

[Technobuilder]

Count me as another who really likes the relaunch series and the changing continuities. In real life, characters grow, change, move on to other jobs, marry, have children, even die (maybe not come back to life, though!). To me it makes the current Treklit more realistic, in ways that the TV shows and movies often were not.

I would like to see some of the original characters developed more fully, but that's something I hope the authors will work on, not a reason to not read the books.

I also have liked the mix of the old & new characters. There've been a couple I didn't care for but for the most part I've been pleased with the continuing adventurers of these crews. Not all crew members will stay with one ship as with TOS, people get opportunities & promotions (or die) & are replaced. It adds something to the story with new characters interacting with the originals.

Can I put my vote in for this as well?

I really liked quite a lot of the new characters introduced. And it made sense, as well, to see new officers coming to the ships and station, and others leaving. So yeah, keep it up!!

I think most would agree you on this.

The real issue here is that we would prefer any new characters to be fully-realized, developed, and fleshed out with memorable personal interactions and characterizations, so as not to be "red shirt" cardboard cutouts manning stations in the background used only as window dressing to make the ships seem full.

Vance Hawkins for example needs to make a reappearance in modern Trek Lit. One of the best iterations of a lit-only character becoming memorably iconic (ala SCE: Failsafe)

 

[XManRCJ]

Honestly, I could do without the new characters and just want to see the various crews interact with other crews. Fill the Enterprise-E's and Titan's command crew with officers from DS9 and Voyager. Station Janeway on DS9 to replace Ross, etc. We know the characters, and god, I miss the done in one novels.

 

[Thrawn]

You miss done in one novels? Sacraments of Fire and Atonement are the only books this year that aren't done in one novels.

 

[XManRCJ]

But you have to walk into those knowing Picard got married, Worf's the XO. Just give us the occasional book where Data's alive and Worf's back on board. So post-What you leave behind and pre-Nemesis. Don't even bring up Worf being an ambassador.

 

[Greg Cox]

We know the characters, and god, I miss the done in one novels.

Don't worry. Some of us are still writing them, although mostly for TOS.

 

[Technobuilder]

Honestly, I could do without the new characters and just want to see the various crews interact with other crews. Fill the Enterprise-E's and Titan's command crew with officers from DS9 and Voyager. Station Janeway on DS9 to replace Ross, etc. We know the characters, and god, I miss the done in one novels.

This sounds like a fanwank idea embodying the essence of that which Star Trek itself has been criticized many times before... Small Universe Syndrome.

But you have to walk into those knowing Picard got married, Worf's the XO. Just give us the occasional book where Data's alive and Worf's back on board. So post-What you leave behind and pre-Nemesis. Don't even bring up Worf being an ambassador.

Novels set within the timeline of the Television series itself are fine, and I'm sure many would and do enjoy those. I myself would not be counted among them however as I tend to find settings as fixed points both stagnant and arbitrary.

A window into the past that gives us insight into the present of a character would be great, but just showing up week after week waiting for someone to hit a reset button at the end of every adventure would grow tiring, quickly.

One of the reasons I continue to read Trek Lit now years later, is that the story moves forward. Things Happen. Consequences occur, events are shaped, and new circumstances are born as fruit of the whole process.

We know the characters, and god, I miss the done in one novels.

Don't worry. Some of us are still writing them, although mostly for TOS.

I've noticed this trend with TOS Books set during the 5YM, and to be honest it makes a sort of sense from a particular perspective, though I'm not drawn to these adventures like I am with the stories where new track is being laid.

I'm sure there's something to be said about picking up a random book and jumping in without having to really learn the lay of the land. You know all the characters already, you know the circumstances and all you really have to do is follow along. The literary equivalent of Law & Order.

I myself would prefer something more like Buffy:TVS or Babylon 5. Each "Season" deals with a particular overarching theme where each "Episode or Episode-arc" is somewhat self-contained, yet contributes to your understanding of the various characters and who they are, their motivations, and how they relate to each other and the larger story over time.

The difference between the two shows (for me) is this... I've seen maybe 20 episodes of Law & Order over the course of my life, they're enjoyable but they don't really lead anywhere. They're mostly forgettable. In contrast I've seen every season of Buffy & Babylon 5 (multiple times). There's a larger story there, the characters are fully realized and what happens early on plays into who they are, and how they change and grow later on.

If anything I'd love to see EVEN MORE of a shift towards this style of storytelling in Trek Lit. It keeps me interested and keeps me involved, and it keeps me coming back for more. I'd again just caution the creation of new characters without taking the time to fully realize and integrate them with the existing ones.

 

[Greg Cox]

We know the characters, and god, I miss the done in one novels.

Don't worry. Some of us are still writing them, although mostly for TOS.

I've noticed this trend with TOS Books set during the 5YM, and to be honest it makes a sort of sense from a particular perspective, though I'm not drawn to these adventures like I am with the stories where new track is being laid.

I'm sure there's something to be said about picking up a random book and jumping in without having to really learn the lay of the land. You know all the characters already, you know the circumstances and all you really have to do is follow along. The literary equivalent of Law & Order.
.

To play devil's advocate, it's not just about ease of entry. It could also have to do with a reader's expectations and what exactly they want out of the experience of reading a STAR TREK novel.

If one picks up a Sherlock Holmes novel, it's not unreasonable to expect that the novel will feature Holmes and Watson solving a mystery, that you'll be visiting Baker Street, that there will be hansom cabs and fog and clues, etc. Will the story lay "new track" and advance a continuing story arc? Probably not, but that's not necessarily why people buy Sherlock Holmes mysteries.

And the same may apply to some STAR TREK readers.

Not that there's anything wrong with complicated story arcs. I'm a big BUFFY fan myself and looking forward to the season finale of DEFIANCE tonight. But that's not the only storytelling mode available. And let's not forget that LAW & ORDER ran forever, and attracted a much larger audience than BUFFY, so there's obviously something to be said for a more episodic approach . . . .

 

[ATimson]

To play devil's advocate, it's not just about ease of entry. It could also have to do with a reader's expectations and what exactly they want out of the experience of reading a STAR TREK novel.

But are the expectations necessarily to get the same thing as they already have on DVD? TV has evolved since the days of TOS and TNG. Should the books stay stuck in that 1980s syndication mold?

It's too bad there's no longer enough room on the schedule to accommodate both approaches. The occasional in-series novel wasn't as much of a bother when it was one of twenty-four instead of one of twelve.

And let's not forget that LAW & ORDER ran forever, and attracted a much larger audience than BUFFY, so there's obviously something to be said for a more episodic approach . . . .

That's what happens when you start on NBC, before the rise of cable original programming (or even other broadcast networks).

 

[Greg Cox]

To play devil's advocate, it's not just about ease of entry. It could also have to do with a reader's expectations and what exactly they want out of the experience of reading a STAR TREK novel.

But are the expectations necessarily to get the same thing as they already have on DVD? TV has evolved since the days of TOS and TNG. Should the books stay stuck in that 1980s syndication mold?

Depends on the reader . . . and the source material. A TOS or TNG fan who picks up a STAR TREK novel can be forgiven for expecting it to be like, well, TOS or TNG. Just as, say, a MONK fan who picks up a MONK novel is going to want the book to read like a novel-length episode of the show.

Whereas, to be fair, a DS9 fan might expect something more serialized.

Depends on what kind of show you're dealing with. Sometimes it's all about capturing the unique charms of the original shows.

And let's not forget that STAR TREK started out on NBC . . . just like LAW & ORDER.

 

[Go-Captain]

I'm not a fan of the huge arcs and interconnectedness of how things are done with current Trek books. I far prefer how they used to be done up until around when DS9 was still on the air.

Old TNG books are episodic as well, and the better ones can truly capture the feeling of watching an extended episode. It is a fantastic feeling, but unfortunately I do not know for sure what causes that particular feeling. It is also not directly related to the book being self contained. I think it is a matter of the presentation of the scenario, characters, and possibly themes. Also, there is no reason why a story spanning five books could not have the feeling of a very very long episode, just with more peeks and valleys of excitement. TNG had two-parters, and Season 4 of ENT had loads of them to great effect, while Season 3 of ENT had a lot of very long arc.

The new books though just read like any old novels, and don't bother at all trying to capture the feeling of the shows. For me that's a big point against them, but not the end, since I've found several books I have liked since that period.

I don't mind series, and character development, especially if the arc is well designated as a series within the over arching series of TNG books, or VOY books, and so on. The issue I specifically have is when minor plot points are brought up from a past book, when not in a designated series of events and books, especially when it is not even a particularly relevant event. Worst of all is when a minor plot point from a cross over is brought up. I mean a cross over where the character was outside their main series, as if I'm reading every series at once. If the incident is so important, why doesn't it show through in the thinking and actions of the character without being stated by the narrator? Couldn't it be brought up more naturally by another character, or perhaps just leave it alone if only contrived methods are available?

I think the reason I dislike authors bringing up connections to books outside their arc, and from other series (such as a TNG book referencing a VOY book) which are not directly connected, is, first, because it seems like a poor way to draw a connection. Secondly, and most importantly, not all books are good, which is why the former point is important. I think the event name dropping is not much more than a way to convince readers to read every book so they miss nothing, but unlike a TV show which will waste only an hour, a book can waste ~8 hours. A bad book can literally be painful, too.

There is another issue, the authors are not the same throughout the series. If it is one author referencing their own work from their own arc or self contained series, then that's fine. But, having multiple authors means the work quality fluctuates greatly, far more so than in a TV show. The over all situation is more of a gamble, and makes it less likely every book will be desirable.

TV shows have producers, and a hundred other people to level the quality out among themselves. But, a book it's more one persons work, the editor, and any proof readers, so it's more sensitive. If a book is bad, then I want to skip it, and not miss some extremely important scenario which will be the basis of a better book by another author later on. I also rather not spend 3 years trying to catch up.

 

[stardream]

It reached a point in time where I simply could not keep up with all the cross overs. I tried. After a while it became too much and I gave up and as a result I missed most of the re-launch novels. My brother stuck with DS9 (his personal favorite series) and I could have borrowed them but I never bothered.

I decided to go back and re-read the Voyager books set during the time of the show. Its a mixed bag. Some good, some not so good. What threw me off though is the character development on the show lessened my enjoyment of a book set during say...the second season. The Doctor, Tom and B'elanna are almost completely different from what they became even though they are true to the time in which the book was set. It was hard for me to go 'back'. It was also a bit frustrating when a book was published during the later seasons of the show but still had those characters 'stuck' in time as though the author had only watched two seasons and decided that was enough. I suppose if someone were to write a book now with the disclaimer that this is 'set' during the fifth season of the show' and then remained true to where those characters were at that period of time (which would probably include Seven as well) it might work for me. I am not saying that all of those books are 'bad' as such. Just that there was a bit of a disconnect for me to work around but that is just me and my mindset. This probably would not have been a problem had I read these books in tandem with the show when it originally aired.

As far as referencing something that happened in other novels my personal favorite is the way the Invasion of the Azure Nebula is handled between the Destiny and Full Circle Novels. In the Destiny series we see the aftermath of the attack. Voyager has survived and Picard contacts them to see an injured and shocked Chakotay. We see the other side of the story in the Voyager book Full Circle where Tom Paris is crawling around in the debris and sees Picard on the screen trying to communicate with a traumatized Chakotay. We 'saw' it happen from both sides. For me it was a most effective way of 'showing' and not 'telling. If all the books handled it this way I would certainly not complain.

 

[Greg Cox]

The Doctor, Tom and B'elanna are almost completely different from what they became even though they are true to the time in which the book was set. It was hard for me to go 'back'. It was also a bit frustrating when a book was published during the later seasons of the show but still had those characters 'stuck' in time as though the author had only watched two seasons and decided that was enough. I suppose if someone were to write a book now with the disclaimer that this is 'set' during the fifth season of the show' and then remained true to where those characters were at that period of time (which would probably include Seven as well) it might work for me.

We should remember that the lead time for publishing a book is much longer than producing a TV episode. A book written in Season 2 might not see print until Season 3.

I know what you mean, though. Readers sometimes complain that Kira is too mean to Bashir in my early DS9 book, but at the time I started writing that book, the show hadn't debuted yet and all I had to go on was the script for the pilot--where Kira does give Bashir a hard time. So I pretty much picked up on that one bit of business and ran with it.

Later on, of course, Kira and Bashir developed a much better working relationship, which confuses people who read that novel today. ("Why is Kira being so rude to Bashir? It's as though she doesn't even like him!")

 

[RandyS]

It reached a point in time where I simply could not keep up with all the cross overs. I tried.

So have I. I'm still trying to figure out how Ezri Dax switched to command and ended up in command of the Adventure. I had read the Destiny trilogy years ago, but hadn't yet caught up with the DS9 relaunch past Unity at that point. I spent last year reading all the rest of those novels, and am now caught up through The Neverending Sacrafice. I assumed this plot point would be addressed somewhere in there. It was not.

Would it really kill Pocket to give us novels set in the 24th century series time frames? We're only talking three months out of 12, since TOS is already (thankfully) doing this, and ENTERPRISE is the one series where the continuing story is actually interesting (although an occasional book set within their four years would be nice too).

 

[Idran]

Ezri switching to command was a pretty significant plotline running through the DS9 relaunch, but as for the specific events leading to her command, she transferred away from DS9 in Trill: Unjoined, and in Greater Than the Sum we saw that where she ended up was as second officer of the Aventine. Then in Destiny we see her assuming command of the Aventine when the captain and first officer were killed defending Acamar.

As for the overall sentiment in the last few posts, I just don't understand it, personally. I'm far more interested in the overall book line than I ever was in the shows, and I have been for the last 10 years or so. To me, they're just outright better than televised Trek, in every respect - the worst Treklit books since the DS9 relaunch have been far better than the worst episodes, the best Treklit books have been better than the best episodes, and the average quality as a whole tends higher. It's legitimately to the point that I hope we never get an official return to the Prime universe on-screen because I know it'd upend some ongoing storyline or another, and I'd rather see things continue with our Treklit authors than on television or in the movies.

It might be that I also just don't feel the same attachment to a specific series that people here seem to. I never look for a DS9 book, or a Voyager book, or a TNG book: I look for a Star Trek book, because it's the setting as a whole and its evolution over time that interests me, not any one particular character or location within it. I want to see the entire universe moving forward, in whatever form that takes, whether it means the crew of ship X stays together or the crew of ship Y heads their separate ways. So long as it's interesting or well-written, I don't care if I get the feel of a specific series out of a book, because I'm looking for the feel of Star Trek as a living and thriving universe. If it's an author whose past work I like, I know that I'll probably enjoy their contribution to Treklit. If it's an author whose past work I'm colder on, I know that I might not, but that's fine with me. Even if other books end up referring back to it, I know there's any number of ways to get an overview of what happened than reading it, and that doesn't bother me in the least. (Though I have to also admit that the number of authors whose work I dislike in Treklit enough to avoid in general (rather than just not caring for individual works) is vanishingly small, which might also be a factor.)

 

[Greg Cox]

As a rule, when I'm writing a tie-in novel, I try not to assume that the reader has read every recent book in a series or seen every episode of the TV show or read every recent issue of the comic book. Ideally, you want the book to be accessible to the casual reader as well as the hardcore collector. I'm very proud of a fan letter I got a few years ago from some guy who claimed to have thoroughly enjoyed one of my 4400 novels even though he had never seen a single episode of the TV series.

At least that's my general approach. YMMV.

 

[Kilana2]

As a rule, when I'm writing a tie-in novel, I try not to assume that the reader has read every recent books in a series or seen every episode of the TV show or read every recent issue of the comic book. Ideally, you want the book to be accessible to the casual reader as well as the hardcore collector. I'm very proud of a fan letter I got a few years ago from some guy who claimed to have thoroughly enjoyed one of my 4400 novels even though he had never seen a single episode of the TV series.

At least that's my general approach. YMMV.

I started to read DS9 novels without having seen the series and I enjoyed the novels. They made me watch the whole show. Kira was one of the characters I couldn't stand at the beginning, but I came to like her via the novels. Reading about the Dominion War without knowing any details proved to be tricky, though.

 

[ATimson]

Would it really kill Pocket to give us novels set in the 24th century series time frames? We're only talking three months out of 12, since TOS is already (thankfully) doing this, and ENTERPRISE is the one series where the continuing story is actually interesting (although an occasional book set within their four years would be nice too).

It's "only" three months out of 12... but it's also 100% of the DS9 and Voyager output most years.