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There's an Atlas Shrugged movie coming out today

And, I believe, the University of Houston is a STATE school too. Irony kicks ass.

How is that more ironic than, for example, the hundreds of liberal professors who work at private "non profit" universities (meaning the institutions don't pay income or property taxes), with sports programs that make millions off student athletes...and then grouse about the rich not paying enough taxes?

You mean organizations that are registered non-profits? You mean organizations who give scholarships to students to come to school and play football? Organizations who use those profits to spend on other not as sexy endeavors like science and the arts? Institutions that don't make profits, like Paris Hilton or CEOs of Fortune 500 companies? Yeah, I don't actually see the irony in that for liberals.

Now, there's irony in a person whose ideology swears off government involvement accepting a paycheck from that very same government.
 
And, I believe, the University of Houston is a STATE school too. Irony kicks ass.

How is that more ironic than, for example, the hundreds of liberal professors who work at private "non profit" universities (meaning the institutions don't pay income or property taxes), with sports programs that make millions off student athletes...and then grouse about the rich not paying enough taxes?

You mean organizations that are registered non-profits? You mean organizations who give scholarships to students to come to school and play football? Organizations who use those profits to spend on other not as sexy endeavors like science and the arts? Institutions that don't make profits, like Paris Hilton or CEOs of Fortune 500 companies? Yeah, I don't actually see the irony in that for liberals.

Now, there's irony in a person whose ideology swears off government involvement accepting a paycheck from that very same government.
It's perfectly fine if it benefits you, the other people don't deserve anything. Rand was actually on welfare, despite claiming to be against it.
 
And, I believe, the University of Houston is a STATE school too. Irony kicks ass.

How is that more ironic than, for example, the hundreds of liberal professors who work at private "non profit" universities (meaning the institutions don't pay income or property taxes), with sports programs that make millions off student athletes...and then grouse about the rich not paying enough taxes?

You mean organizations that are registered non-profits? You mean organizations who give scholarships to students to come to school and play football? Organizations who use those profits to spend on other not as sexy endeavors like science and the arts? Institutions that don't make profits, like Paris Hilton or CEOs of Fortune 500 companies? Yeah, I don't actually see the irony in that for liberals.

Oh boy. Where to begin.

Yes, they're registered "non profits"...despite raking in millions in profit (on sports alone). That was one of my points.

And, yes, they give scholarships to students to come and play sports. But those scholarships are obviously based on skills, not financial needs, and the desire of the college to have a profitable sports program...making it pure capitalism.

Organizations who use those profits to spend on other not as sexy endeavors like science and the arts? Actually, a lot of the money for those programs also comes from corporate donations, often arranged by the university trustess (many of whom are also corporate CEOs). And a lot of the other money comes from the universities' endowments, which are heavily invested in fortune 500 companies. (I should also point out that universities often make big bucks off of patents for things their staff and students invent with all that "science." For example, Cornell University hold-or held-the patent for, of all things, chicken nuggets).

Then there's the other spending. According to MSNBC, schools are spending, not on science and the arts, but on things like this:
administrators tore up their budget and gave architect Demetri Porphyrios virtual carte blanche. Each student room has triple-glazed mahogany casement windows made of leaded glass. The dining hall boasts a 35-foot ceiling gabled in oak and a "state of the art servery." By the time the 10-building complex in the Collegiate Gothic style opened in August, it had cost Princeton $136 million, or $272,000 for each of the 500 undergraduates who will live there.
And, maybe university administrators don't make as much money as a fortune 500 CEO, but there are some football coaches who make more than a million dollars a year for, basically, providing people with entertainment (you know, the same thing that Paris Hilton thinks she does). And I don't think you'd argue that a million dollars a year isn't rich. Why are coaches getting that and not the professors or the teaching assistants if the universities are acting in accord with "liberal" principles?

And, speaking of the professors, let's look at some of their salaries. Again, according to MSNBC, some of the Ivy League Professors (and, trust me, you'll find few republicans in the faculty lounges of the ivy league)make approximately half a million dollars year. Even at public universities, the average professor salary is over $100,000.

Again, that's admittedly not CEO of Time Warner money. But it's still well into what people think of as "the rich."

So, to recap, it seems like there's plenty of "irony" to go around, if we accept your theory of what is or isn't ironic.
 
How is that more ironic than, for example, the hundreds of liberal professors who work at private "non profit" universities (meaning the institutions don't pay income or property taxes), with sports programs that make millions off student athletes...and then grouse about the rich not paying enough taxes?

You mean organizations that are registered non-profits? You mean organizations who give scholarships to students to come to school and play football? Organizations who use those profits to spend on other not as sexy endeavors like science and the arts? Institutions that don't make profits, like Paris Hilton or CEOs of Fortune 500 companies? Yeah, I don't actually see the irony in that for liberals.

Now, there's irony in a person whose ideology swears off government involvement accepting a paycheck from that very same government.

She accepted Social Security and Medicare, yes, for this simple reason:

She paid into those programs. She funded those programs--against her will.

Is it hypocrisy that us Right-wingers would condemn Social Security and Medicare--and accept checks from them?

No--if you think about it. The entire idea of those programs is that, through Payroll Taxes, we are forced to put such-and-such amount of money into the government's account, with the promise that we would get that money back when we retire.

Rand was simply getting back the what was taken for her. It's just that simple.
 
The entire idea of those programs is that, through Payroll Taxes, we are forced to put such-and-such amount of money into the government's account, with the promise that we would get that money back when we retire.
A despicable notion, aye, but fear not - today's right-wingers are furiously conspiring to ensure that that money is diverted into the hands of a few super-rich glorified accountants who produce nothing of value to society. With luck, tomorrow's Rands will never have to face the awful dilemma of letting the government pay them back for what should be theirs.
 
How is that more ironic than, for example, the hundreds of liberal professors who work at private "non profit" universities (meaning the institutions don't pay income or property taxes), with sports programs that make millions off student athletes...and then grouse about the rich not paying enough taxes?

You mean organizations that are registered non-profits? You mean organizations who give scholarships to students to come to school and play football? Organizations who use those profits to spend on other not as sexy endeavors like science and the arts? Institutions that don't make profits, like Paris Hilton or CEOs of Fortune 500 companies? Yeah, I don't actually see the irony in that for liberals.

Oh boy. Where to begin.

How about where I'm going to. *sigh*

Yes, they're registered "non profits"...despite raking in millions in profit (on sports alone). That was one of my points.

I don't think you know what the definition of non-profit is. A non-profit can bring in money. They have to SPEND it, like spending the profits from sports. Money that is generated there goes to other programs.

Non-profit means there isn't money going to share holders. The money that comes in, goes back into developing the non-profit.

So, to your point... nah nah boo boo.

And, yes, they give scholarships to students to come and play sports. But those scholarships are obviously based on skills, not financial needs, and the desire of the college to have a profitable sports program...making it pure capitalism.

So? Ah, I see. You're confusing liberals with Communists.

Liberals don't have a problem with Captialism. Unbridled unethical Capitalism that destroys things, yeah, liberals don't like that.

But, so what if the those scholarships are given based on skill. Many of those kids who get scholarships based on skill may not have been able to go to college without it. Still sounds like a good liberal thing.

Organizations who use those profits to spend on other not as sexy endeavors like science and the arts? Actually, a lot of the money for those programs also comes from corporate donations, often arranged by the university trustess (many of whom are also corporate CEOs). And a lot of the other money comes from the universities' endowments, which are heavily invested in fortune 500 companies. (I should also point out that universities often make big bucks off of patents for things their staff and students invent with all that "science." For example, Cornell University hold-or held-the patent for, of all things, chicken nuggets).

Then there's the other spending. According to MSNBC, schools are spending, not on science and the arts, but on things like this:
administrators tore up their budget and gave architect Demetri Porphyrios virtual carte blanche. Each student room has triple-glazed mahogany casement windows made of leaded glass. The dining hall boasts a 35-foot ceiling gabled in oak and a "state of the art servery." By the time the 10-building complex in the Collegiate Gothic style opened in August, it had cost Princeton $136 million, or $272,000 for each of the 500 undergraduates who will live there.



Colleges need money. Lots of money. But, yeah, colleges get money from all sorts of places, as you pointed out. So?

Again, liberals don't hate capitalism. I know that might be news to you, but, we don't. Sorry...

And, maybe university administrators don't make as much money as a fortune 500 CEO, but there are some football coaches who make more than a million dollars a year for, basically, providing people with entertainment (you know, the same thing that Paris Hilton thinks she does). And I don't think you'd argue that a million dollars a year isn't rich. Why are coaches getting that and not the professors or the teaching assistants if the universities are acting in accord with "liberal" principles?

You and I agree! Hizzah! I do think college professors are underpaid. And guess what, those very same college professors would AGREE with you too! I think, maybe, you're a liberal.

However, guess, what.... maybe colleges are the bastion of liberal ideals as you think. Maybe....just maybe... they are a little more centrist than you would like. Sure, there are liberal professors as there as conservative professors.

And, speaking of the professors, let's look at some of their salaries. Again, according to MSNBC, some of the Ivy League Professors (and, trust me, you'll find few republicans in the faculty lounges of the ivy league)make approximately half a million dollars year. Even at public universities, the average professor salary is over $100,000.

Again, that's admittedly not CEO of Time Warner money. But it's still well into what people think of as "the rich."

So... what's your point? that some professors are paid a lot of money? And the sky is blue. Good for them I say. But, the question is, do they think they should be paying more taxes? I don't know. You'll have to ask....

So, to recap, it seems like there's plenty of "irony" to go around, if we accept your theory of what is or isn't ironic.

Oh, god. Irony isn't a theory. It's a word. Look it up.

I'm sorry, there isn't anything in your post that would make a liberal working for a non-profit college (you know, the one that doesn't make a profit for shareholders) OR professors making a lot of money. Liberals like money. They think everyone should have money!

But, you know, I'll let you in on a secret... they want YOUR money the most.... they have some solar powered ice cream machines they want the government to invest in... so they ARE COMING AFTER YOUUUUUUUUUU!!!!! :eek:

Edited to add: you would be correct in saying it's ironic for liberals to be working at colleges if liberals espoused the belief that no one should make money. Which, by objective reality (see what I did there) isn't true.
 
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The entire idea of those programs is that, through Payroll Taxes, we are forced to put such-and-such amount of money into the government's account, with the promise that we would get that money back when we retire.
A despicable notion, aye, but fear not - today's right-wingers are furiously conspiring to ensure that that money is diverted into the hands of a few super-rich glorified accountants who produce nothing of value to society. With luck, tomorrow's Rands will never have to face the awful dilemma of letting the government pay them back for what should be theirs.
It's only redistribution of wealth when it helps the poor. It's perfection if it is taken from the poor and middle class to help billionaires.
 
I don't think you know what the definition of non-profit is...Non-profit means there isn't money going to share holders. The money that comes in, goes back into developing the non-profit.

The point is that the non-profits are making large sums of money, consuming resources and doing every thing that corporations do (except give money back to the investors) but not contributing what most liberals would consider their "fair share" of taxes.

And, to expand on my point there are liberals, including some that work for universities who feel that colleges should pay taxes (or at least make larger payments in lieu of taxes).

For example, getting back to Cornell and its chicken nuggets:
Cornell is located in Ithaca, New York. Ithaca is a relatively small city. Cornell is one of, if not the biggest, landowner in the area. But Cornell is largely untaxed, despite consuming a large chunk of the city's municipal services.

Many of the liberals who work there are also active in local politics (sitting on city council and the county legislature for example). Some have even run on trying to extract taxes or PILOTs from Cornell.

Yet, they still work there, despite the fact that the university does things that contradict with their stated beliefs.

I'm sure that the same is true for other universities and their faculties.


So? Ah, I see. You're confusing liberals with Communists.

Liberals don't have a problem with Captialism. Unbridled unethical Capitalism that destroys things, yeah, liberals don't like that.

But, so what if the those scholarships are given based on skill. Many of those kids who get scholarships based on skill may not have been able to go to college without it. Still sounds like a good liberal thing.

I'm surprised you believe that services and resources should be expended on the theory of contract and not charity while people who can't contribute should go without. When did you become such a heartless conservative?

Colleges need money. Lots of money. But, yeah, colleges get money from all sorts of places, as you pointed out. So?

For starters, those donations come from corporate profits. The same corporate profits that some of these self same liberals are calling unfair and demanding be taken away through taxation.

That would seem to be what you refer to as "irony."

So, we've established that liberal professors working for private colleges are, using your logic, working for institutions that operate in ways that contradict those professors' belief systems.

Now, onto a few of your other, slightly off topic, points:


maybe colleges are the bastion of liberal ideals as you think. Maybe....just maybe... they are a little more centrist than you would like. Sure, there are liberal professors as there as conservative professors.

According to both the liberal Huffington Post, and conservative Students for Academic Freedom, Ivy League faculties are overwhelmingly liberal.

some professors are paid a lot of money? And the sky is blue. Good for them I say. But, the question is, do they think they should be paying more taxes? I don't know. You'll have to ask....

Professors call for extension of millionaire's tax: the tax to which they refer would be on households' making over $250,000 per year, which clearly applies to the professors we were talking about.

Liberals like money. They think everyone should have money!

Which they typically want "everyone" to have in part through a scheme of government taxation...which taxation should more heavily tax people (they say) in their own income brackets.

Now, here's the thing. There's absolutely nothing stopping them from paying higher taxes right now.

The U.S. Treasury has a program that allows people to donate whatever they want to the federal government. If someone thinks they are undertaxed they can voluntarily pay extra taxes.

Every single college professor (or other "rich" liberal) who supports the millionaire's tax, or any increased tax on people in their own income bracket, could pay those increased taxes today.

How many of them do?

Not many, I'd wager. And those that don't are arguably at least as hypocritical as someone who already paid into a system and would now like the money they were "promised" given back.
 
She accepted Social Security and Medicare, yes, for this simple reason:

She paid into those programs. She funded those programs--against her will.

Is it hypocrisy that us Right-wingers would condemn Social Security and Medicare--and accept checks from them?

No--if you think about it. The entire idea of those programs is that, through Payroll Taxes, we are forced to put such-and-such amount of money into the government's account, with the promise that we would get that money back when we retire.

Rand was simply getting back the what was taken for her. It's just that simple.

First of all, social security is an insurance program. Despite how it was apparently explained to you, it isn't a government program of mandatory retirement funds to ensure people who were stupid enough to work someplace that didn't give them a pension didn't end up on the street once they were too old to work. There are a multitude of cases that can result in someone drawing, or not drawing, on social security, in amounts grossly disproportionate to what they've paid in. There is no obligation or guarantee of restitution. It's as silly as if someone had car insurance, but lived a charmed live and never had an accident and didn't ever file a claim, and then decided they were entitled to all that money they gave the insurance company anyway, because they were forced to buy insurance by the state. Any insurance policy, voluntary or not, including social security, is a gamble against yourself, and sometimes you win. Or lose. Whatever. The point is, your understanding of the concept is warped, and would be proven especially false in any dismantling of the program. But I get ahead of myself.

Wouldn't it have been an effective protest for Rand to decline such government largess, despite having paid into it, thus showing her commitment to her beliefs was so great that she would sooner allow herself to be wronged than to become a parasite? I mean, come on. Ghandi and Dr. King made sacrifices far greater than not cashing a check or filling out a form for their causes, and paying income tax is at least as great a horror as being brutally murdered by a mob and having your body hanged from a tree as a warning to others because you whistled at the wrong woman.

I'm certain that, due to her great commercial success and belief in self-reliance, she had substantial savings that were more than sufficient to see to her needs without her needing to enslave the young, healthy people who were still working for a living. And if she couldn't, well, she and her supporters would've gained a martyr. You can't buy that kind of publicity, and I guarantee that an Objectivist dying of lung cancer on the street because of overtaxation would be a ton more compelling than a hundred copy-and-pasted passages of fictional doctors ranting about how it's right and proper that someone should pay them a million dollars to cut into their brain so they won't die, but if the government pays them a million dollars to cut into that same person's brain to save their life, it's suddenly a crime against nature, because Doctors get into medicine just so they can have the cheap thrill of determining if someone lives or dies based on whether they're poor or not.

Besides, abolishing the social safety net would require everyone to volunteer not to get back what they paid in. Since we didn't have the luxury of beginning the New Deal from Year Zero and had to instead start it in-progress, the people who are paying now are paying for the people who are drawing now, not for themselves down the line, even if your simplistic understanding of the program was actually the case.

The abolition of the program would mean that everyone who paid into it would just have to deal with the fact that they weren't getting their money back. Unless it's a misery-loves-company thing, there's no difference between Rand declining to get her social security payments back as a principled stand and Rand not getting her social security payments back because the program was dissolved at her insistence.

Did she at least keep a receipt? If she was interested in balancing the books, than she should've had an idea, if not an exact accounting, of how much she had paid into those programs so she could either stop once she'd exhausted her share, or have her estate demand the balance back upon her death.

Or maybe she was just all talk.
 
I don't think you know what the definition of non-profit is...Non-profit means there isn't money going to share holders. The money that comes in, goes back into developing the non-profit.

The point is that the non-profits are making large sums of money, consuming resources and doing every thing that corporations do (except give money back to the investors) but not contributing what most liberals would consider their "fair share" of taxes.

And, to expand on my point there are liberals, including some that work for universities who feel that colleges should pay taxes (or at least make larger payments in lieu of taxes).

For example, getting back to Cornell and its chicken nuggets:
Cornell is located in Ithaca, New York. Ithaca is a relatively small city. Cornell is one of, if not the biggest, landowner in the area. But Cornell is largely untaxed, despite consuming a large chunk of the city's municipal services.

Many of the liberals who work there are also active in local politics (sitting on city council and the county legislature for example). Some have even run on trying to extract taxes or PILOTs from Cornell.

Yet, they still work there, despite the fact that the university does things that contradict with their stated beliefs.

I'm sure that the same is true for other universities and their faculties.


So? Ah, I see. You're confusing liberals with Communists.

Liberals don't have a problem with Captialism. Unbridled unethical Capitalism that destroys things, yeah, liberals don't like that.

But, so what if the those scholarships are given based on skill. Many of those kids who get scholarships based on skill may not have been able to go to college without it. Still sounds like a good liberal thing.

I'm surprised you believe that services and resources should be expended on the theory of contract and not charity while people who can't contribute should go without. When did you become such a heartless conservative?



For starters, those donations come from corporate profits. The same corporate profits that some of these self same liberals are calling unfair and demanding be taken away through taxation.

That would seem to be what you refer to as "irony."

So, we've established that liberal professors working for private colleges are, using your logic, working for institutions that operate in ways that contradict those professors' belief systems.

Now, onto a few of your other, slightly off topic, points:




According to both the liberal Huffington Post, and conservative Students for Academic Freedom, Ivy League faculties are overwhelmingly liberal.

some professors are paid a lot of money? And the sky is blue. Good for them I say. But, the question is, do they think they should be paying more taxes? I don't know. You'll have to ask....

Professors call for extension of millionaire's tax: the tax to which they refer would be on households' making over $250,000 per year, which clearly applies to the professors we were talking about.

Liberals like money. They think everyone should have money!

Which they typically want "everyone" to have in part through a scheme of government taxation...which taxation should more heavily tax people (they say) in their own income brackets.

Now, here's the thing. There's absolutely nothing stopping them from paying higher taxes right now.

The U.S. Treasury has a program that allows people to donate whatever they want to the federal government. If someone thinks they are undertaxed they can voluntarily pay extra taxes.

Every single college professor (or other "rich" liberal) who supports the millionaire's tax, or any increased tax on people in their own income bracket, could pay those increased taxes today.

How many of them do?

Not many, I'd wager. And those that don't are arguably at least as hypocritical as someone who already paid into a system and would now like the money they were "promised" given back.

Wow. I see you've put a lot of work into this post. I see you linked a lot of things, and did some internet research and shit.

Well, it mostly went to waste, as I just skimmed it. That's actually not true. I didn't read it.

I think it's hilarious that you're spending this much time to try and convince me that it's also ironic that liberals teach at colleges. I guess that does mean you accept the irony of a Rand guy working at a state school.

In the end, liberals asking the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes (hey, if they have 90% of the wealth, shouldn't they pay 90% of the taxes)... but they don't say people shouldn't make ANY money. If they DID, then, yeah, it would be ironic that they worked at a school... I guess... I don't know... I'm not sure what point you're making.... other that I attacked a Randian for working in the public sector so you have to get all worked up about liberals doing liberal stuff and even getting paid for it... the HORROR!
 
Please, folks, this is a movie thread. Can't we discuss its vivid characters, the memorable dialogue, the gripping plot and the complex, emotionally nuanced themes?
 
Please, folks, this is a movie thread. Can't we discuss its vivid characters, the memorable dialogue, the gripping plot and the complex, emotionally nuanced themes?

True, it ranks up there with the best, like The Phantom Menace.
 
Please, folks, this is a movie thread. Can't we discuss its vivid characters, the memorable dialogue, the gripping plot and the complex, emotionally nuanced themes?

Exactly. Like this gem:

Which do I sacrifice: an excellent piece of smelting, or this Institute?

or this one:

During a steel shortage, we can't allow a company that produces too much steel!

or this:

The secret you're trying to solve is greater – and I mean, much greater – than an engine that runs on atmospheric intensity!

Sounds pretty amazing. :lol:
 
Please, folks, this is a movie thread. Can't we discuss its vivid characters, the memorable dialogue, the gripping plot and the complex, emotionally nuanced themes?

Exactly. Like this gem:

Which do I sacrifice: an excellent piece of smelting, or this Institute?

or this one:

During a steel shortage, we can't allow a company that produces too much steel!

or this:

The secret you're trying to solve is greater – and I mean, much greater – than an engine that runs on atmospheric intensity!

Sounds pretty amazing. :lol:

Except for the exclamation points, those are exactly the same three pieces of dialog quoted in the review at http://io9.com/#!5792663/atlas-shrugged-a-movie-this-demented-ought-to-be-against-the-law, and they are in the same order.
 
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