there will be 'no Papa-Nicole moments'
- Thread starter JoeZhang
- Start date
I did laugh when I saw that quote earlier today.
For those too young to get the reference: http://youtu.be/WgBGDvgYekA
For those too young to get the reference: http://youtu.be/WgBGDvgYekA
The most interesting thing for me about the interview was the way he (politely) makes it clear that he wasn't the biggest fan of the style of the series when Matt Smith was there.
To be honest I'd love it if he was the Doctor and the Producer. It's not like he needs sleep or anything.
To be honest I'd love it if he was the Doctor and the Producer. It's not like he needs sleep or anything.
Doctor : I'm not your boyfriend...
Clara: I never said you were!
Doctor: I never said it was your mistake...
Clara: I never said you were!
Doctor: I never said it was your mistake...
From the first Capaldi episode...
That's an interesting piece of dialogue. When I read it in the leaked script, I was curious how it would play on screen, because the way it read to me seemed like the Doctor was letting Clara off the hook when, frankly, it seemed very much to be a mutual feeling. Every time I watch the opening scenes of "The Day of the Doctor," the thought I have is, "Yeah, they're shagging like bunnies." Then, of course, she has no problem passing the Doctor off as her boyfriend at Christmas.
Which, now that I think about it, may be why Clara inexplicably has such a difficult time adjusting to the twelfth Doctor in "Deep Breath." Even if he wasn't her boyfriend, she clearly fancied him. Possibly they were even fuckbuddies. And now, he's very much not that person. So she's having to deal with some deeply primal feelings that she may not realize she has and have been turned upside down by the Doctor's centuries of aging and regeneration. That would be an interesting thing to explore -- it's almost like a break-up or death but it's not either -- but I have doubts Moffat would be the writer subtle and mature enough to so.
All I can say is thank fuck for that. Was my favourite part of the script.
I'm not one of those fans that think the Doctor should keep his hands off, but virtually every single female companion of the new series has had the hots for the Doctor in some way or another. I'm glad that storyline is now dead.
That said, Danny Pink is shoehorned as the replacement just so we get a love story. Bleugh. Anyone remember the good old days when the Doctor and the Companion sodded off for a couple of years and left all this shit behind...?
[/rant]
Because, frankly, it is somewhat implausible to imagine that most of them wouldn't be into him. And because it is a relationship facet that brings with it both high stakes and a question about the basic nature of the Doctor as a person, both of which keep the show interesting in spite of its formulaic plots.
ETA:
Personally, I'm a bit sad to hear that the Doctor will revert to some completely platonic feelings, as I want to see what he's like when he's in a real, honest-to-God, she-lives-with-him-on-a-permanent basis relationship. But something like this, that emphasizes how alien the Doctor's nature truly is, also opens up interesting possibilities.
In particular, I find myself interested in a situation where a companion feels about the Doctor as this character in this song does about her subject. A companion who feels hurt, betrayed, and abandoned, who once loved him and now has only scorn. "You're just a writer who I used to adore / You're just a man who I don't love anymore." That would be a new twist in nuWho's Doctor/companion relationship paradigms, and I'd love to see it handled well.
It doesn't bother me that companions are into the Doctor, but it really hasn't been that many.
Rose, obviously.
Martha, yes, but the Doctor did not feel the same way.
Donna, definitely not.
Amy, for like 5 minutes, but that was mainly because she was freaking out about her wedding.
Clara? Hard to say, but it seems a moot point now.
So...2 (maybe 3) out of 5. Not too many.
Rose, obviously.
Martha, yes, but the Doctor did not feel the same way.
Donna, definitely not.
Amy, for like 5 minutes, but that was mainly because she was freaking out about her wedding.
Clara? Hard to say, but it seems a moot point now.
So...2 (maybe 3) out of 5. Not too many.
You forgot Jack (Seriously, it was overtly stated in the Doctor Dances right out of the gate.).
Has he travelled with River long-term yet?
There was a definite spark between him and Kylie.
He would have travelled with Madam De Pompadour if she had survived, and there would have been a lot more kissing.
Has he travelled with River long-term yet?
There was a definite spark between him and Kylie.
He would have travelled with Madam De Pompadour if she had survived, and there would have been a lot more kissing.
Jack really doesn't count. He has a crush on everything.
River...I intentionally left her out. Since the whole point of her character arc was that she was his mysterious wife from the future, I can't really lump her in with the other companions who happened to fall for him.
I also intentionally left out the people who only appeared once, such as Madame de Pompadour. I personally don't count them as companions since they're never around for more than a day or two. Reinette is basically Amy Pond. The girl who waited [by the fireplace].
Besides, the man has lived for 2000 years. He's bound to have little flings here and there.
River...I intentionally left her out. Since the whole point of her character arc was that she was his mysterious wife from the future, I can't really lump her in with the other companions who happened to fall for him.
I also intentionally left out the people who only appeared once, such as Madame de Pompadour. I personally don't count them as companions since they're never around for more than a day or two. Reinette is basically Amy Pond. The girl who waited [by the fireplace].
Besides, the man has lived for 2000 years. He's bound to have little flings here and there.
I don’t have a major problem with romance in Who, but I don’t think every single Doctor/Companion relationship should follow the same pattern. Is it so hard for it to just be the mentor/student relationship every once in a while? Does the show really lose out in this way?
And this is before you even get around to the fact of a 2000 year old man in a relationship with a 20 something girl is a little odd to say the least. If he’s going to have a relationship I’d rather it was with a River or a Romana than a Rose. The whole Doctor/Rose relationship was unsettling and psychologically iffy on all sorts of levels…I mean, it made some sense, the war weary old man rejuvenated by the beautiful ingénue whilst she finds the father she never had, only envisages a relationship with him that’s far from paternal…and the fact he has a time machine is the icing on the cake.
And this is before you even get around to the fact of a 2000 year old man in a relationship with a 20 something girl is a little odd to say the least. If he’s going to have a relationship I’d rather it was with a River or a Romana than a Rose. The whole Doctor/Rose relationship was unsettling and psychologically iffy on all sorts of levels…I mean, it made some sense, the war weary old man rejuvenated by the beautiful ingénue whilst she finds the father she never had, only envisages a relationship with him that’s far from paternal…and the fact he has a time machine is the icing on the cake.
^ Agreed on all points. Surely a variety of types of relationships is a good thing and adds to the show. And, the power/intelligence differential between a 2000 year old man and a 20 something year old women is so great that it does make it a bit creepy. It's nearly a 100X age difference!
I really like the sound of the new direction. I enjoyed the old nuWho very much but think we need a change after Tennant/Smith.
Mr Awe
I really like the sound of the new direction. I enjoyed the old nuWho very much but think we need a change after Tennant/Smith.
Mr Awe
I don't buy it. I mean, I buy it if I'm watching some paternalistic old piece of film or TV, where the Old White Guy always knows best and the Young Lady must always learn from his wisdom, a sort of science fictional Leave It to Beaver/Father Knows Best thing. But nuWho is -- to greater or lesser degrees, depending on how sexist Steven Moffat is feeling that day -- built on the premise that the Doctor's modern companions are independent people, that they are on a fundamental level the Doctor's equals. So the idea that a smart, independent young woman will run away with an old man so he can be her mentor and she his student? I don't buy it right off the bat. There has to be something else done to establish trust in their relationship before I believe that she'd subordinate herself that way. The relationship needs to be pre-existing, he needs to have done something to prove himself not to be paternalistic before I'll buy it.
So if it happens now between Clara and the Doctor, I'll buy it, because their relationship is pre-existing, because they've already established a level of trust and respect between them. Because he's already proven himself to her, and already proven that he respects her, I can buy the idea that Clara would agree to a mentor/student relationship as she travels with him to see the Universe. But I wouldn't buy it if it had happened in "The Bells of St. John's."
I mean, obviously Series One romanticizes the relationship between the Doctor and Rose. And obviously, Rose is depicted as being in many respects more mature than most 19-year-olds -- she's a young woman who is clearly the breadwinner, who is clearly responsible for providing for herself and her mother, whose background establishes that she has already become prematurely experienced in life when she ran away with a man at 16 and then was abandoned by him. (I occasionally find myself wondering if the Unspoken Implication was that Rose had an abortion.) So Rose isn't supposed to be a typical irresponsible 19-year-old -- there's a level of maturity that comes with being responsible for your family like Rose.
ETA: And I do think there's a difference between a 19-year-old and someone in her late 20s, such as Clara. Rose may have been more mature than most young women her age, but there's a level of experience that comes with age that Rose still can't match in some ways. Particularly as Clara only lost her mother as an adult, whereas Rose had never lost anyone in her family since infancy. End Edit.
I mean, by that logic, it's creepy if the Doctor ever has any relationship, because is the age difference between a 2,000-year-old and a 30-year-old all that much smaller? The issue isn't the age gap, which will always be literally inhuman; the issue is the relative maturity of the younger partner.
I'm honestly far less creeped out by Doctor/Rose than I am by Doctor/River. Rose was a grown woman running her own life and providing for herself and her mother when she met the Doctor. And her entire emotional life didn't revolve around him from beginning to end -- she insisted he keep bringing her back for her mother, she had an unresolved relationship with Mickey (who was probably cheating on her in that first episode), etc.
River, on the other hand, has had her entire life revolve around the Doctor psychologically -- she was raised to want to kill him, spent about a decade and a half obsessing over him while in the form of Mels, experienced the guilt of having almost killed him, and then chose her profession of archaeologist for the sole purpose of trying to contact him. Now, that is a creepy relationship!
^ Why yes, that was creepy, but also arranged by the bad guys, so you'd expect it to be creepy. Rose/Doctor wasn't arranged by some bad guys though. So, that's creepy for different reasons.
No, I don't think the Doctor would be interested that way in a human 20 or 30. If we're being realistic, companions are probably more like pets to him than full grown adults. I mean, he's a 2000 year old being who's traveled time and space and can comprehend all of time and space on an entirely different level than humans!
That said, for the sake of the show, I don't mind at all if there is the occassional romance, I just don't want it to be the norm. Fortunately, there's been a couple of exceptions to it (Donna and Amy).
Mr Awe
No, I don't think the Doctor would be interested that way in a human 20 or 30. If we're being realistic, companions are probably more like pets to him than full grown adults. I mean, he's a 2000 year old being who's traveled time and space and can comprehend all of time and space on an entirely different level than humans!
That said, for the sake of the show, I don't mind at all if there is the occassional romance, I just don't want it to be the norm. Fortunately, there's been a couple of exceptions to it (Donna and Amy).
Mr Awe
I don't buy this for one minute. I don't buy it for the Doctor as a character to perceive his companions this way, and I don't think the narrative views the companions this way, either. Time and again, nuWho has made it clear that his companions are the Doctor's equals--not necessarily his equals in terms of knowledge about interstellar politics or science, but his equals in terms of problem-solving and discernment. It's Rose who saves the panicking Doctor from the Nestene in "Rose," who brings the Doctor out of his PTSD madness in "Dalek," who saves both the Doctor and the future Earth from extermination in "The Parting of the Ways;" it's Martha who brings the truth to John Smith in "The Family of Blood," who travels the Earth when the Doctor is captured aboard the Valiant in "Last of the Time Lords;" it's Donna who convinces the Doctor to go back and save the one family in Pompeii, whose Human intuition combines with Time Lord knowledge to save the Universe in "Journey's End;" it's Captain Brooks who makes the Doctor realizes he's gone too far with his "Time Lord Victorious" ravings in "The Waters of Mars;" it's Amy who realizes the Star Whale is kind to children in "The Beast Below," who brings the Doctor back from non-existence in "The Big Bang;" and it's Clara who saves the Doctor from death time and again in "The Name of the Doctor," who brings about a whole new regeneration cycle in "The Time of the Doctor" -- and most importantly, who rescues Doctor from committing his own greatest sin in "The Name of the Doctor."
These people aren't pets. They're fundamentally his equals--not in terms of abstract knowledge, but in terms of discernment, of their ability to recognize when he's losing himself to his own megalomania. They keep him grounded, keep him from becoming his own worst nightmare.
Or, as Amy put it in "The Doctor's Wife:"
"He doesn't need us to take care of him! He's a Time Lord!"
"That's just what they're called. It doesn't mean he knows what he's doing."
Oh, I don't think Amy's the exception per se. I honestly think Amy was the love of his twelfth life. I don't think he would have hallucinated her after not having seen her for over a thousand years, just moments before dying and regenerating, with such longing, if he weren't still in some fundamental way in love with her.
^ I agree that the series doesn't portray them that way because it would insult the audience. That's why I said "if we're being realistic". Obviously the show can't be. But, a 2000 year old being is to a 20 year old as a 30 year old is to a 4 month old baby!
Realism aside, my main point was that the show should have a variety of relationships and not always, or almost always, default to one model. That's to keep the show fresh more than anything else.
I'm looking forward to the change even though I have enjoyed the new show since it began.
Mr Awe
Realism aside, my main point was that the show should have a variety of relationships and not always, or almost always, default to one model. That's to keep the show fresh more than anything else.
I'm looking forward to the change even though I have enjoyed the new show since it began.
Mr Awe
