There is no prime timeline anymore

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Well, the real problem is Kirk changed our timeline when he came back to 1986 to get them friggin' whales.

No, he didn't.

There's no evidence that he did, at any rate. (Up until Kirk and crew left 2286 to journey into the past, we had not heard what happened to George and Gracie.) All the data we do have, suggests that there were no changes to history.

They returned to the same timeline they left, after all.

 

[Sci]

The writers have been very clear in saying that the prime timeline still exists -- it's just, as a recent thread put it, "running on a different channel." And as Robert Orci said, "You'll notice that your DVDs didn't suddenly disappear when this movie came out."

 

[nx1701g]

The writers have been very clear in saying that the prime timeline still exists -- it's just, as a recent thread put it, "running on a different channel." And as Robert Orci said, "You'll notice that your DVDs didn't suddenly disappear when this movie came out."

Oddly enough two of my Trek DVD's stopped working last Friday

 

[urbandk]

ummm... are we still talking about this?

let's sum up: Original Star Trek Land exists. New Star Trek Land also exists.

the movie is in New Star Trek Land, which is connected to Original Star Trek Land through some alt-universe "Parallels" style nonsense. new Trek movies and TV will probably happen in New Star Trek Land. some novels, fan fic, comics, and games will probably happen in Original Star Trek Land.

some people are happy. others are sad. the world keeps on turning.

 

[CommanderTrip]

Trek XI is a reboot of the franchise in the same vein that Batman Begins (2005) was a reboot of the Batman Franchise (Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, and Batman & Robin).

Sequels to Trek XI will be in the same vein as The Dark Knight. (well, franchise-wise that is. Can't comment on the quality of the film until, you know, it's made)

Just because BB and TDK are steering the Batman franchise in a different (and fresh) direction doesn't mean that the events of the first four movies didn't happen. Those movies still exist. It's the same thing with Trek XI. Just because Trek XI is steering the Trek franchise into a different (and fresh) direction doesn't mean that the events of the first 10 movies and 5 series didn't happen (Hell, the writers even included a link between the old and new ST). New Trek movies will continue the story of Trek XI, just as new batman movies will continue the story of Batman Begins.

This really isn't all that hard. I think it's just some people have trouble letting go.

 

[El Chupacabra]

And as Robert Orci said, "You'll notice that your DVDs didn't suddenly disappear when this movie came out."

Thats just a bullshit attempt at appeasement.

 

[El Chupacabra]

This really isn't all that hard. I think it's just some people have trouble letting go.

Why is it such a crime for some fans to have that detailed universe of 40 years as one of the reasons for their fandom? Why do they have to let it go? Because you have decided to why are they required to do so?

 

[MaquisTrap]

Or a select group of fans have a problem letting something new come into their holy "canon". We all have the Star Trek dvds from past productions... and soon we'll have this one. They aren't shitting on our past Trek at all... its still there for us to enjoy. Star Trek is purely entertainment and to think of it outside the box (as in they have "eliminated" your Star Trek because this is a new movie)... that's bogus. Did the movie come out and say that? Don't think so. The product from the past 40 years isn't going anywhere and hopefully... some of the new fans we got this past weekend will come and check it out. But if they don't... they don't have to. And they won't be stuck with having to have seen all original star trek episodes to understand and appreciate the next film.

 

[Joby]

This can all be fixed by just going back to the future, and stopping Biff from stealing the almanac.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Or a select group of fans have a problem letting something new come into their holy "canon". We all have the Star Trek dvds from past productions... and soon we'll have this one. They aren't shitting on our past Trek at all... its still there for us to enjoy. Star Trek is purely entertainment and to think of it outside the box (as in they have "eliminated" your Star Trek because this is a new movie)... that's bogus. Did the movie come out and say that? Don't think so. The product from the past 40 years isn't going anywhere and hopefully... some of the new fans we got this past weekend will come and check it out. But if they don't... they don't have to. And they won't be stuck with having to have seen all original star trek episodes to understand and appreciate the next film.

What if someone came and told you there was not going to me another Trel film and no other Trek movie, TV show or book would ever be produced again. What you feel happy or sad?

That is how I feel. Yes, I am pleased Star Trek still lives. But my Star Trek, if you will, is now over. I will never get anymore of that universe, that is my point. I am not an idiot. I know the DVDs are there to still watch. But I would have liked to have seen further screen adventures in that universe and the fact that I will now no longer see anything new in it is dissapointing to me.

 

[KiraDax]

Yes, I am pleased Star Trek still lives. But my Star Trek, if you will, is now over. I will never get anymore of that universe, that is my point. I am not an idiot.

You do realize the likelihood of there ever having been another movie or show with any of the previous characters was in the negatives anyhow, right?

The most generally marketable characters were the TNG ones, and look at Insurrection and Nemesis.

If there hadn't been a complete reboot, Trek was dead anyhow.

 

[Geoff]

If there hadn't been a complete reboot, Trek was dead anyhow.

Exactly. Hell, Nemesis was billed as the "final adventure" of the TNG crew, and that was before it completely tanked at the box office.

The old franchise that you're pining for, El Chupacabra, was already dead long before this new film was a gleam in J.J.'s eye. If you want new adventures with the old characters, you have the novels. I understand that you'd prefer new films or TV shows in the old timeframe, but that was never going to happen. Why don't you understand this?

That part of Trek's history is complete. The book is closed. Those old stories are still part of the canon, and in fact, as other posters have stated, they all must have occurred to set up the disaster that motivated Nero and "Spock Prime" to come back in time in the first place. But it's over. Done. Fine. It was a fun ride that we will always remember fondly. But it's time to let it go.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Yes, I am pleased Star Trek still lives. But my Star Trek, if you will, is now over. I will never get anymore of that universe, that is my point. I am not an idiot.

You do realize the likelihood of there ever having been another movie or show with any of the previous characters was in the negatives anyhow, right?

The most generally marketable characters were the TNG ones, and look at Insurrection and Nemesis.

If there hadn't been a complete reboot, Trek was dead anyhow.

Well, with a new crew or a TOS recasting set in the prime universe there could have been more adventures....so I guess I held out hope. But yes, I accept that Trek was not in good shape. But this new movie was the official nail in the coffin for me that the old universe would definately see no more stories in the old timeline. It's the confirmation I had hoped not to get.

 

[El Chupacabra]

I understand that you'd prefer new films or TV shows in the old timeframe, but that was never going to happen. Why don't you understand this?

Because your statement presumes that a reboot was the only possible future. We have to agree to disagree on that as I think that reboots are sometimes Hollywood's way of not being creative and rushing out stories quickly.

That part of Trek's history is complete. The book is closed. Those old stories are still part of the canon, and in fact, as other posters have stated, they all must have occurred to set up the disaster that motivated Nero and "Spock Prime" to come back in time in the first place. But it's over. Done. Fine. It was a fun ride that we will always remember fondly. But it's time to let it go.

I don't think its a matter of letting it go. I have no choice but to accept what we have now, plain and simple. I understand that. But I don't have to be happy about it. There is a distinction between accepting something and being overjoyed to have it.

 

[Cdr MacDuff]

Yes, I am pleased Star Trek still lives. But my Star Trek, if you will, is now over. I will never get anymore of that universe, that is my point. I am not an idiot.

You do realize the likelihood of there ever having been another movie or show with any of the previous characters was in the negatives anyhow, right?

The most generally marketable characters were the TNG ones, and look at Insurrection and Nemesis.

If there hadn't been a complete reboot, Trek was dead anyhow.

Well, with a new crew or a TOS recasting set in the prime universe there could have been more adventures....so I guess I held out hope. But yes, I accept that Trek was not in good shape. But this new movie was the official nail in the coffin for me that the old universe would definately see no more stories in the old timeline. It's the confirmation I had hoped not to get.

I'm not sure about that. I think this new movie and its timeline alteration is a great precursor to finally have the new Tv series"Star Trek: Relativity".

For those who don't remember. It was the 29th Federation Timeship which had the mission of protecting and restoring the timeline. Some tout it as a possible twist for a new Star Trek series.

Star Trek Relativity Pilot synopsis:

1x01: "The Federation Relativity has for its first official mission to correct the timeline changed by a Romulan mining vessel led by Nero (of the Romulan colony J'abrams)"

Seriously, I don't think the alteration of the timeline are significant enough to change the old stories (in a TV sense). Vulcan can restart their civilization on a new planet while nobody cares if Kirk grew up with his father or not. But, frankly I didn't know for sure if the timeline were altered, before the the movie made a point of it. For example, I didn't know if Kirk grew up with his parents or had a brother or not. Lets say that everything of significance happened the same way.

 

[Australis]

El Chupacabra, if you want more Prime U stories, go to the fan productions. They're stil set there, they have some of the original actors, they have passion if not a full range of technical expertise (they do pretty good on a - literally - zero budget).

 

[El Chupacabra]

El Chupacabra, if you want more Prime U stories, go to the fan productions. They're stil set there, they have some of the original actors, they have passion if not a full range of technical expertise (they do pretty good on a - literally - zero budget).

Naw, sorry. The acting, and sometimes the writing, are too bad in those fan productions for me to take them seriously. The only one I managed to stomach the whole of the way through was Of Gods and Men and that was a stinker.

 

[superdeluxe]

Why force a negative perspective upon yourself when you don't have to?

.

Some people just like to be bitter about something.

 

[USS Gettysburg]

Look at the Kelvin. Does it look like you'd expect if it were part way between Archer and Pike's CAGE Enterprise?

Would anything?

When they have shown Star Trek changing time they show only one timeline (a) because it'd be as confusing as heck to show more than one and (b) the story you are trying to follow happens in that timeline. That doesn't mean that it still doesn't exist.

 

[CordrazineOD]

The whole creating a new timeline that branches off from the original had been abused by lazy writers like abrams who didnt want to connect the dots.
It doesnt matter if its possible, its just lazyness on the writers so they dont have to make everything fit, it makes life for them easyer.

abrams had abused it, and i'm not suprised, after following Lost. The only way all the inconsistences can be explained away is with its another timeline plot.
Its a lazy lazy device.

A new series of prequels would never be as interesting if we were to know already that everything happens the exact same way this time around. They'd only be able to do remakes or "Lost Years" stuff in between TOS and TMP, TMP and TWOK, TTF and TUC, and post-TUC. WTF? It would be bogged-down in connecting dots half the time, be inaccesible, and alienate potential new fans completely.

As for Lost, your assertions remain to be proven. Wait until the series is concluded.