Theory on Jacob, MiB, the Island, and the "wine bottle" analogy

[Alidar Jarok]

Your problem, checkmate, is that you won't even consider the possibility that your interpretation might be wrong.

Until you do, there's no point in having a discussion with you, because you don't want to discuss. You want to convince us you are correct.

You might be. But, you might not.

I would just suggest not being militantly held to this view. The vibe I'm getting from the show is that they are leaning the way checkmate is saying. I would hate someone to hate the end of the show because it doesn't fit their theory (it's why I stopped arguing about Lost theories in real life and might start doing it here).

 

[Mr Awe]

I don't know, I'm getting the sense that each person will find that following anyone other than themselves is a waste of time that detracts from their life. That being lost in your own life leaves you vulnerable to being manipulated by others *for their own ends*.

I am willing to be proven wrong though. Nothing is certain on Lost, to say the least!

Mr Awe

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Why would they play up faith so much if the goal is to tell you to follow your own path.

 

[Jenee]

Your problem, checkmate, is that you won't even consider the possibility that your interpretation might be wrong.

Until you do, there's no point in having a discussion with you, because you don't want to discuss. You want to convince us you are correct.

You might be. But, you might not.

I would just suggest not being militantly held to this view. The vibe I'm getting from the show is that they are leaning the way checkmate is saying. I would hate someone to hate the end of the show because it doesn't fit their theory (it's why I stopped arguing about Lost theories in real life and might start doing it here).

I'm not militant about it. In fact, I've said several times that he might be right.

But, the same goes the other way. He may be wrong.

 

[Checkmate]

The vast majority of things I've said have simply been to poke holes in your theory and that of other posters. Which, somehow, has made me dim-witted and unable to think outside the box simply for pointing out the things the show has made abundantly clear. As opposed to pulling stuff out of my arse to support a theory that doesn't make much sense or is directly contrary to what we already know.

 

[Jenee]

Ok, I get it. You're insane. Then I won't bother responding to your posts.

 

[Mallet]

This is my take on it.

-Imagine that the island is a maximum security prison.
-The "Prisoners" in this prison is the evil, and if it escape the world would be in danger. Just like in a real prison if a serial killer or mass murderer escape he'd be a danger to society.
-Jacob is the Warden of the prison, he's in charge of the day-to-day operations, making sure the prison runs well, and is effective.
-The MIB/Smokie is the Prison Guard. In charge of actually keeping the security of the prison intact. Making sure no one escapes.
-The Prison/island has rules of conduct, just in the real world a prison has to follow the rules laid out by the government (State or Federal). For example, a Prison Guard can't just kill a Prisoner for no reason, but if the Prisoner tries to escape then he can shoot him. The Island also has it's own rules about killing and escaping and such... Who made these rules and enforces them is still unknown, but probably the source of some of the "ghosts" we've been seeing.

At some point in the far past, Jacob & the MIB took on their roles, Warden & Prison Guard. maybe they chose to do it for a good cause, maybe it was the promise of eternal life, maybe they were tricked in to it. How ever it happened, they took their roles. Maybe they were both good guys back then. Or both just normal people, neither super good or super evil.

But over time the MIB began to get tired of his role as security guard. he was stuck in this prison 24/7 pretty much just like any of the actual prisoners were. he became resentful and angry. Why should he care what happens if the "prisoners" escape? he has nothing to do with the outside world anyways and besides everyone who he ever meets (people that come to the island) always end up the same, fighting, killing, etc... Why should he spend his life protecting people like that?

Jacob, on the other hand, never lost sight of the goal and what they were doing there on the island/prison. By bringing people to the Island he is trying to show Smokie/The MIB, that not all people are evil, that some are good and just and that the jobs they (Jacob & The MIB) are preforming are of great importance.

But it's too late now. the MIB is determined to "quit his job" and leave the Island. If he does so, then there will be no guard there to stop the "Prisoners" from escaping. And they will escape and evil will take over the earth. But the MIB no longer cares, as far as he is concerned the people of the earth are already evil and corrupt.

The first thing the MIB had to do was get rid of the "Prison Warden" before he could quit/leave. Now that he is done that, all that is left for him to do it make his own "escape" from the "prison" and the rest of the world be damned.

So I don't think the MIB started out evil, but he has become selfish, caring only about himself, and he is willing to damn the rest of the world to get his way. So now, he is for all intents and purposes, evil. Because what he wants to do for himself will cause evil to be released upon the world. So he has to be stopped.

Or... Someone will have to take over his role as "Prison Guard", just like someone has to take over Jacob's role as "Warden".

I'm betting Jack becomes the Warden and Sawyer becomes the Prison Guard. Stuck together on the Island for eternity. Well, at least until history ends up repeating itself, 1000 or so years from now when Sawyer tires of his job and tries to kill off Jack and escape.

 

[Trippy]

^best explanation so far, by far. Well said Mallet

Sawyer was head of security for Dharma after all

 

[Mr Awe]

Why would they play up faith so much if the goal is to tell you to follow your own path.

I don't know, it seems like they've played it down. Often those with faith in something larger have been let down by it.

Mr Awe

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Since this show is turning more theological than I'd expected, I think the "goodness of mankind" is the true "cork in the bottle" keeping Satan (that's who MiB has got to be) at bay. Otherwise, why would Jacob fuss so much about bringing people to the island and letting them exercise their free will to hopefully do good? That's how MiB stays imprisoned.

Jacob is taking a chance that the people he brings will fuck up and their bad behavior will "chip away" at the cork, but the rules of the game are, Jacob can't know how people will behave until he brings them. He gets double points when a baddie like Sawyer seemed to be redeemed, which is why he doesn't stack the deck by just bringing in a bunch of Hurleys. A redeemed baddie can be just as useful in keeping Satan imprisoned as a truly good soul, which is why both Sawyer and Hurley are candidates for the biggest role, replacing Jacob.

Faith comes into play for everyone. Even Jacob, who seems to be in charge, has to go on faith. None of these characters are God, who would be the only character who doesn't need faith, and who knows.

 

[Legolas]

Why would they play up faith so much if the goal is to tell you to follow your own path.

I don't know, it seems like they've played it down. Often those with faith in something larger have been let down by it.

Mr Awe

Yeah, John Locke had faith...and look what happened to him. He died betrayed, and completely confused.

His story is by far my favorite and the saddest.

 

[Mr Awe]

Why would they play up faith so much if the goal is to tell you to follow your own path.

I don't know, it seems like they've played it down. Often those with faith in something larger have been let down by it.

Mr Awe

Yeah, John Locke had faith...and look what happened to him. He died betrayed, and completely confused.

His story is by far my favorite and the saddest.

Ben and Richard have been petty well screwed over by their faith as well.

Mr Awe

 

[Alidar Jarok]

The argument is that Jacob has a plan that affects them too. It's hard to say. Locke definitely seems to have had a sad ending (although that's partially Ben's fault).

 

[Mallet]

If Locke had followed Christian's instructions the first time, he would probably have had a better, possibly happy, ending. It was because he didn't that he put in motion all of the time jumps, brain damage, and the like. So it was partly his own fault, thou it was an easy mistake to make.

 

[MikeS]

Remind me again what the first instructions from Christian were?

Great prison analogy btw. Similar to my thoughts.

 

[Mallet]

Originally Christian told Locke he had to move the Island to protect it. But Locke got Ben to move the Island instead. That apparently caused all the time jumps and such because the wheel went off it's tracks. It also sent Ben back to the real world at the same time Jack, Kate, Sayid, Sun & Hurley all escaped the Island.

Later on, when Locke meets Christian again, Christian says "I said that you had to move the island." So Locke goes down and pushes the wheel and stops the time jumps, and also moves off the Island back to the outside world.

But one wonders what would have happened if Locke had followed Christian's instructions correctly the first time?

Ben would never have had to leave the Island. So he wouldn't have killed Locke. Locke would live, so the MIB couldn't take over his body and trick Ben into killing Jacob.

Locke would be free in the "real world" along with Jack, Kate, Sayid, Sun & Hurley.

Charlotte wouldn't have died. Most of the other 815 survivors wouldn't have died (like Frogert, etc...) because the island wouldn't have been skipping through time. Faraday wouldn't have died.

They would never have ended up back in Dharama in the 70's.

They would never have had to "nuke" the Swan site. Juliette wouldn't have died.

And probably a lot more.

All because Locke had Ben turn the wheel, rather then turning it himself.

 

[blockaderunner]

Jacob has candidates...y not MIB?

That would explain the stones and the "inside joke". For every candidate Jacob gets, there's a white stone and for every person "claimed" by MIB, there's a black stone. It's still kind of odd for Jacob to treat something like this so lightly.

 

[blockaderunner]

You know, I think people are taking the cork containing "evil" claim too literally. Remember who Jacob was talking to? A deeply religious, some would say superstitios, person who went through several traumatic and unexplainable situations starting with the death of his wife. Now, if it were a more enlightened person (there, I said it!) washed up on that beach, Jacob would probably have said "I'm a near immortal being charged with the protection of a pocket of electromagnetic energy beneath this island that, if released, could wreak havoc on the earth and the being made of smoke wishes to have that energy, and itself, released,". So Jacob had to talk down to Richard's language to get his cooperation.

Good vs. evil: Heavy on opinion, light on facts. Kinda like organized religions.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Spoiler: I'm not so sure

The writers said that they have been using this metaphor since season 1. When they wrote that scene, they were originally just going to have a "that's not important, I'll tell you later" type answer and then decided that, at this point, people deserved to at least have a partial answer to the mystery of the island.

 

[McCoy]

Originally Christian told Locke he had to move the Island to protect it. But Locke got Ben to move the Island instead. ...All because Locke had Ben turn the wheel, rather then turning it himself.

IIRC, Locke didn't tell Ben to turn the wheel. Ben asked Locke if Jacob had told him how to move the island, and when Locke said he had no idea, Ben assumed that meant Jacob wanted Ben to do it. Why he would make that assumption rather than just give Locke the information I don't know, maybe one of the "rules" is that Jacob only gives info about a task to the person who is intended to do it, and he knew the info but Locke didn't.

But he must have really believed it was something he had to do, because it was obvious he certainly didn't want to do it. It wasn't up to Locke at all.