The Xindi War and the Kelvin Timeline

[Timo]

You've missed this crucial bit from earlier

Ah, so I have. And yes, that is pretty decisive in nailing down the timeline. Agreed on all points.

Except perhaps for the caveat that the Franklin might have been an older vessel, built to be useful to the MACO, when she received Henry Archer engines for the warp 4 record flight. I mean, it's not as if the MACO ought to have much use for superfast testbeds as such. Heck, the Franklin might even have been surplus donated to the MACO after outrunning her usefulness in commercial prospecting duty or something.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

(Also, except for the other caveat in which humans might not have been allowed aboard the Franklin when she made her record flight... )

Timo Saloniemi

 

[OpenMaw]

I honestly don't see why the Xindi, particularly the Reptillian and Insectoid species, wouldn't be launching border raids against Starfleet. It would explain why the Earth Starfleet was not defending Earth when the weapon was deployed. They were off, distracted by encroaching Xindi ships.

 

[Timo]

The one problem there would be that there was no border!

When engaged in serious combat, the Xindi moved about through those fancy tunnels of theirs. If they mounted raids through those, where could Starfleet deploy its ships to counter them? Sooner or later, UESF would decide that the only workable defensive tactic was to stick close to Earth.

Yet the Xindi would probably realize this and therefore not launch tunneling raids. They might tunnel right next to the borders of the Dominion of Earth, then launch conventional raids that would lure Starfleet ships to those borders. We just didn't see or hear this happen...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[somebuddyX]

My interpretation of the Xindi mention was that it was just a reference to the events in Season 3 of Enterprise and no further conflict.

 

[Timo]

...Does this mean that Edison was aboard NX-01 in Xindi space, then?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[OpenMaw]

Doesn't quite work, since we knew most of the MACO's as regular guests characters. We never saw an Edison.

 

[locutus101]

2 million died in the Xindi weapon test on Florida alone wasn't it?

Deneb was firebombed at warp by the Romulans killing hundreds of millions to even start the war. Both had huge casualties.

Seven million, actually.

 

[Timo]

Doesn't quite work, since we knew most of the MACO's as regular guests characters. We never saw an Edison.

Perhaps he went by his maiden name Krall until gaining high rank and becoming a celebrated hero?

...We do need some sort of a way for Edison to fight the Xindi directly, preferably in a testosterone-laden hand-to-tentacle engagement even. A broader Xindi conflict would be nice here.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[somebuddyX]

I dunno, maybe he was on the NX-01 or there was some other unseen battles between Xindi and Earth in Season 3. Unlikely. I'm just not a fan of the hopeful ending to Season 3 being negated further down the track.

 

[theenglish]

According to lead picture editor Dylan Highsmith, "Warp Four" was not a slip up:

If you want the official explanation on the Franklin and it’s warp factor: it was a M.A.C.O. ship (or a United Earth Starfleet ship that housed M.A.C.O. personnel at times) that predates the NX-01.

When the UFP Starfleet is formed, M.A.C.O. was disbanded and the ship was reclassified as a Starfleet ship [with the USS identifier]. The ship is then “lost” in the early 2160’s.

It was important to everyone that the ship, like Edison, predate the Federation; that thematically, the ship mirrored an earlier time in history and served as a bridge in design between then and the NX-01.

Doug [Jung] and Simon [Pegg] may have worked up something [on an official launch date], but if they did it never made it to script or screen.

Either way it predates the NX-01, and was reclassified after the UFP is formed.

Memory Alpha was consulted heavily in writing this script, according to Pegg. In fact, they emailed Memory Alpha for detailed information on what kind of ship Edison would have been assigned.

 

[Timo]

Isn't that like saying that they phoned the internet for an opinion?

I'm just not a fan of the hopeful ending to Season 3 being negated further down the track.

Even an expanded Xindi conflict could end peacefully (!) at the destruction of their WMD and them seeing the error of their ways. No need to negate the hopeful (?) message (!?!) of "Storm Front".

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

I honestly don't see why the Xindi, particularly the Reptillian and Insectoid species, wouldn't be launching border raids against Starfleet. It would explain why the Earth Starfleet was not defending Earth when the weapon was deployed. They were off, distracted by encroaching Xindi ships.

Why would they bother, when their plan was to blow the planet up? And if there were Xindi ships "encroaching on Earth's borders" they sure let a lot slip by in the alternate timeline where they were successful.

...Does this mean that Edison was aboard NX-01 in Xindi space, then?

Given Edison's rank was Major at the time the MACOs were disbanded, this makes it clear he was an officer. But aside from Major Hayes, there were no MACO officers on the NX-01. In fact, aside from Hayes and one Sergeant, all the MACOs on the NX-01 were Corporals.

 

[Timo]

Given Edison's rank was Major at the time the MACOs were disbanded, this makes it clear he was an officer.

...Unless mustanged in the costly war. He was supposed to be a celebrated hero, after all, and it doesn't seem as if he ever got the chance to do anything heroic while wearing a Starfleet uniform. He must have seen exceptionally heavy or significant action, and if celebrated, then potentially decorated and otherwise rewarded as well.

But aside from Major Hayes, there were no MACO officers on the NX-01. In fact, aside from Hayes and one Sergeant, all the MACOs on the NX-01 were Corporals.

Which was odd in itself, and might actually imply the presence of a Lieutenant or two. Those just happened to have ninja training.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Wormhole]

Which was odd in itself, and might actually imply the presence of a Lieutenant or two. Those just happened to have ninja training.

But then, when Major Hayes was on his death bed, he recommended to Reed one of the Corporals be selected to take command of the MACO contingent. Had there been a Lieutenant, command would automatically fall to them.

Never mind that the Sergeant was still around (as confirmed in the very next scene's dialogue) so if there were no other officers command should have been his following the death of Hayes.

 

[Ovation]

Well, if Edison was a major in the MACO service, it makes sense he became a captain in Starfleet (naval captain rank is equivalent to non-naval rank of major). But that's the extent of any thought I plan to give to this particular topic.

 

[Jedi_Master]

In the U.S. Special Forces, a major can be the commander of a company, whereas a he or she is typically an XO for a regular Army battalion.

Seeing as M.A.C.Os were the equivalent of a Special Forces unit, it makes sense they were commanded by a major.

The naval equivalent of a Major is a Lieutenant-Commander

 

[fireproof78]

In the U.S. Special Forces, a major can be the commander of a company, whereas a he or she is typically an XO for a regular Army battalion.

Seeing as M.A.C.Os were the equivalent of a Special Forces unit, it makes sense they were commanded by a major.

The naval equivalent of a Major is a Lieutenant-Commander

This is an important note. I recall this from JAG

 

[Ovation]

In the U.S. Special Forces, a major can be the commander of a company, whereas a he or she is typically an XO for a regular Army battalion.

Seeing as M.A.C.Os were the equivalent of a Special Forces unit, it makes sense they were commanded by a major.

The naval equivalent of a Major is a Lieutenant-Commander

Perhaps it's different in the Canadian forces. I'll admit it's been a long time I've bothered to look this up (and I recall discussing the fact that "captain" for non-naval forces is not as high as it is in the navy).

ETA: It's the same in current Canadian forces ("major" = "Lt-Cmdr"). Naval captain = Army colonel. Army captain = naval Lt.

Oh well. Doesn't matter. We all know Starfleet isn't a military service (says so right in the movie).

 

[Jedi_Master]

Perhaps it's different in the Canadian forces. I'll admit it's been a long time I've bothered to look this up (and I recall discussing the fact that "captain" for non-naval forces is not as high as it is in the navy).

I just glanced through the Wikipedia article - it was based on the American military.

It does seem that Major is a rank that should be leading something, so it was surprising (for me) to see that they are generally staff officers.