The Xindi War and the Kelvin Timeline

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

...No, the episode said nothing about NX-Delta being the first to break Warp 3.

T'POL: Still, the NX program continued.
ARCHER: Eventually. The Vulcans had us run every simulation they could think of for over a year before they finally admitted the engine would probably work. Eight months after that, Duvall broke Warp Three in the NX-Delta. Five years later we laid the keel for Enterprise. You know the rest.

(Interesting little completely unsupported speculative thought: perhaps the Franklin originally was the NX-Delta?)

She supposedly did have phase guns.

Ah, did he say "phase cannons"? I thought I remembered it as "pulsed plasma cannons," but I'm happy to be wrong there. I'll be seeing it again later today or tomorrow, so I'll verify.

Why not? It shouldn't take a declared war for the Romulans to fight and defeat UFP ships

This computer display from the Defiant's databanks in "In A Mirror, Darkly" (ENT) says the Wars (plural) ended the year before the UFP was founded and Starfeet was re-chartered, which must be before the Franklin was lost:
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/..._archive,_Starfleet_(production_resource).jpg

And from "Balance Of Terror" (TOS):

SPOCK: Referring to the map on your screens, you will note beyond the moving position of our vessel, a line of Earth outpost stations. Constructed on asteroids, they monitor the Neutral Zone established by treaty after the Earth-Romulan conflict a century ago. As you may recall from your histories, this conflict was fought, by our standards today, with primitive atomic weapons and in primitive space vessels which allowed no quarter, no captives. Nor was there even ship-to-ship visual communication. Therefore, no human, Romulan, or ally has ever seen the other. Earth believes the Romulans to be warlike, cruel, treacherous, and only the Romulans know what they think of Earth. The treaty, set by sub-space radio, established this Neutral Zone, entry into which by either side, would constitute an act of war. The treaty has been unbroken since that time.

 

[Timo]

Eight months after that, Duvall broke Warp Three in the NX-Delta.

Exactly. Without this being a record of any sort.

The episode is explicit about "breaking the warp 2 barrier" being no sort of a record, as the only record Robinson is credited with is the ejection thing - that is, the language really specifies this as the only thing worthy of record books associated with the flight. It doesn't even try to promote warp 3 as any sort of a barrier.

Ah, did he say "phase cannons"? I thought I remembered it as "pulsed plasma cannons," but I'm happy to be wrong there. I'll be seeing it again later today or tomorrow, so I'll verify.

I'm now thinking I remembered wrong... It's too bad we never saw the things fire, I guess. Although pulsed plasma cannons in ENT looked pretty much what phaser fire is like in the new movies: short, a bit diffuse reddish bolts.

The treaty, set by sub-space radio, established this Neutral Zone, entry into which by either side, would constitute an act of war. The treaty has been unbroken since that time.

Spock knows this because he sits in the 2260s. In the 2160s, nobody would know the Romulans would not attack.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ovation]

Her being the first Warp 4 ship is not a mistake per se, though. I can't recall anything in ENT to suggest there couldn't have been an Earth ship that reached Warp 4 before NX-01, as long as it post-dates NX-Delta being the first to break Warp 3 in 2144 as per "First Flight." If anything, the mistake is more in giving the ship a registry of NX-326, but that is largely obviated if this was not her original Earth registry but rather one given to her after the founding of the UFP when the fleet was being restructured, which seems to be implied by the dedication plaque mentioning the UFP. Other mistakes might be that she should probably have been upgraded with phase cannons and photonic torpedoes by the time she disappeared as NX-01 had been, and that the Romulan War(s) shouldn't still have been going on after the founding of the Federation, so having "surrendered to the Romulans" shouldn't have been a putative explanation for her disappearance. Of course, all of this is entirely moot if Pegg was going by the assumption that the pre-2233 history of the Kelvin Timeline can be different from the Prime Timeline, as he's explained.

NX-326 is a nod to Nimoy's birthday 3/26 (26 March). It's not a "mistake".

 

[Timo]

It's a mistake of sorts if we want to think of Starfleet going steadily through 1701 ships between the first-ever one in 2161 and the Enterprise in 2245 or so: 326 comes way too early then.

However, the likelier scenario is that Starfleet acquired about a thousand ships in 2161 already, most of them war surplus, and then had to replace about as many in the next 80 years, some gradually, some in blocks. An NX-326 added to the books in 2161 poses no problems then. But one wonders why 0514 or O514 would look so much more modern than 326 in that scenario.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[David cgc]

The episode is explicit about "breaking the warp 2 barrier" being no sort of a record, as the only record Robinson is credited with is the ejection thing - that is, the language really specifies this as the only thing worthy of record books associated with the flight. It doesn't even try to promote warp 3 as any sort of a barrier.

I remember thinking the milestones in "First Flight" sounded odd, since "Fortunate Son" made it sound like Warp 3 engines were state-of-the-art on the civilian market, but not brand-new, so it seemed odd that humanity had only hit warp 2 less than ten years earlier. I came up with the same rationale you did, that these were milestones specific to the Henry Archer engine design, and there were other types of warp engine in use that could go to warp 2 or warp 3 reliably, but that was the fastest those designs were theoretically capable of.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Exactly. Without this being a record of any sort.

The episode is explicit about "breaking the warp 2 barrier" being no sort of a record, as the only record Robinson is credited with is the ejection thing - that is, the language really specifies this as the only thing worthy of record books associated with the flight. It doesn't even try to promote warp 3 as any sort of a barrier.

Archer "broke" Robinson's "record" of Warp 2.2 when he reached 2.5 in the NX-Beta at the conclusion of the episode. And I think the language of "Duvall broke Warp 3 in the NX-Delta" implies that there was indeed a barrier/record at that point. But as there's nothing to suggest the Franklin didn't come after that, it's no issue. That was my point.

 

[Timo]

Archer "broke" Robinson's "record" of Warp 2.2 when he reached 2.5 in the NX-Beta at the conclusion of the episode.

But since Robinson's feat itself was ineligible for "the record books", it sounds like two kids squabbling in a game for adults. You know, a junior record of sorts.

In any case, none of these achievements was a record in absolute terms, as the Vulcan ships coming and going all were way faster than any of the Earth testbeds or early starships. Which probably puts an emphasis on the Franklin achieving warp 4 well before there was a Federation, because it would be no record in the Federation any more.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

But since Robinson's feat itself was ineligible for "the record books", it sounds like two kids squabbling in a game for adults. You know, a junior record of sorts.

In any case, none of these achievements was a record in absolute terms, as the Vulcan ships coming and going all were way faster than any of the Earth testbeds or early starships. Which probably puts an emphasis on the Franklin achieving warp 4 well before there was a Federation, because it would be no record in the Federation any more.

Of course it would be a pre-Federation Earth record, and Scotty explicitly specifies this in the movie IIRC. (I think he said "she was the first Earth ship capable of Warp 4" but will still have to re-watch to be sure.) And I'm afraid I'm really not following you about the "record books" thing. These record books would certainly not have been written in the very short time between Robinson's flight in the NX-Alpha and Archer's in the NX-Beta, and I think the clear implication of the episode is that Robinson, Archer, and Duvall all set successive speed records which superseded one another in turn. Franklin's should follow them all and precede the NX-01 reaching 4.5 in "Broken Bow."

NX-326 is a nod to Nimoy's birthday 3/26 (26 March). It's not a "mistake".

There are some issues that have to be glossed over whether it's the ship's original registry number or not. In the former scenario, where she was NX-326 all along, if she is part of the NX Project lineage, why wasn't she mentioned in Archer's summary of its milestones in "First Flight" and why is her number so high? (NX-Alpha, NX-Beta, [NX-Gamma, one presumes], NX-Delta, [...NX-326?...], NX-01, NX-02...) If she is not, then she shouldn't have an NX prefix, because that's what it denoted in this era. In the second scenario, where NX-326 is a number she only received after the post-UFP restructuring of Starfleet (as Highsmith suggests and as is supported by the dedication plaque), why would a ship built decades earlier whose speed, weaponry, and transporter specs have been long since outclassed be given a prefix which in this new scheme designates (now generically) an experimental prototype? Sisko's second Defiant (née Sao Paulo NCC-75633) being re-designated NX-74205 has been suggested as giving wiggle room there, albeit (1) I'm not sure we were actually supposed to believe that happened in-universe, as it was only re-use of stock footage that would suggest it IIRC, (2) if we are, it was specifically in honor of her predecessor and by special dispensation, and (3) still doesn't make much sense as opposed to NCC-74205-A (which I think is what they wanted to go with but couldn't afford on their budget).

I'm not trying to make too big a deal out of this as if it were super important, because of course it really isn't and there have been many equal or greater inconsistencies in Trek, but one way or the other it doesn't fit perfectly under scrutiny with no squinting or head-scratching. It being a reference to Nimoy's birthday doesn't change anything there. (Again, though, what potentially does is the possibility that the Kelvin Timeline's divergence of 2233 can in fact lead to differences farther back than that, which seems perfectly sensible to me. Not sure why so many around here seem reluctant to embrace it. It's not as if those who make the films are likelier to become more concerned with adhering to the minutiae of pre-2233 continuity rather than less so as they go on.)

 

[Ovation]

Well, this line of reasoning probably helps:

The issue, as I see it, is that given the divergence of the timeline there is the potential for time travel events in the future of the Kelvin timeline to have affected its past in such a way that its past is also divergent.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

^Yes indeed, and most especially considering that Kirk Prime himself had the single most voluminous file on record with the Department of Temporal Investigations for violations of the Temporal Prime Directive is per "Trials And Tribble-ations" (DS9), any and all of which might happen under different circumstances and have different outcomes in the Kelvin Timeline, if they happen at all! (To say nothing of everyone else's time travel shenanigans beyond that!)

 

[Ovation]

^Yes indeed, and most especially considering that Kirk Prime himself had the single most voluminous file on record with the Department of Temporal Investigations for violations of the Temporal Prime Directive is per "Trials And Tribble-ations" (DS9), any and all of which might happen under different circumstances and have different outcomes in the Kelvin Timeline, if they happen at all! (To say nothing of everyone else's time travel shenanigans beyond that!)

I know it's not a popular view among Trek fans, but I consider nearly each instance of time travel in Trek to have created a new branch, most of them nearly identical. We simply follow the POV of the main characters, who "return" to what they believe is the "original" timeline--and can't tell the difference. With the reboot, we stay with the POV of the Narada crew and Spock Prime--thus exploring the new branch in detail. In any event, I long ago stopped trying to "figure out" time travel stories--none of them withstand scrutiny. I simply accept whatever "rules" the storyteller says are governing the time travel incident. Much healthier for one's blood pressure.

 

[Nerys Myk]

My rationalization is there was a Warp 4 program going on too. The Franklin is a NX type ship outfitted with a Warp 4 engine, produced for the Romulan wars.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

She supposedly did have phase guns. What she didn't have was photon torpedoes - but even NX-01 retained those "spatial" torpedoes even after receiving the photonic ones, suggesting the old tech wasn't utterly outdated yet.

Ah, did he say "phase cannons"? I thought I remembered it as "pulsed plasma cannons," but I'm happy to be wrong there. I'll be seeing it again later today or tomorrow, so I'll verify.

I'm now thinking I remembered wrong...

Just got back from second viewing. I can definitively confirm that Franklin was the "first Earth ship capable of Warp 4" and that her weapons were "pulsed phase cannons and spatial torpedoes."

 

[Skywalker]

Just got back from second viewing. I can definitively confirm that Franklin was the "first Earth ship capable of Warp 4" and that her weapons were "pulsed phase cannons and spatial torpedoes."

Saw it earlier today and I can also confirm.

 

[Timo]

Many thanks! (Also, envy for those who got to see the movie twice already.)

And I'm afraid I'm really not following you about the "record books" thing. These record books would certainly not have been written in the very short time between Robinson's flight in the NX-Alpha and Archer's in the NX-Beta, and I think the clear implication of the episode is that Robinson, Archer, and Duvall all set successive speed records which superseded one another in turn.

Immediately after Robinson's daredevil flight, in which "the warp 2 barrier" was broken, this is stated (with several decades of hindsight):

T'Pol: "I was referring to Captain Robinson. His test flight."
Archer: "He made the record books for being the first person to deploy an escape pod at warp, but he lost one of two NX prototypes. Nearly derailed the entire programme."

Others (even from Earth) must have deployed escape pods at warp later on, so we learn here that a record books entry on a "first" won't get overwritten by later feats - just as we'd expect. Yet Robinson is not credited with breaking warp two, even though this would be the perfect opportunity to say so, and indeed that record would have been a better apology for wrecking the test rig - heavily suggesting that Robinson broke no records by exceeding warp 2.

...why would a ship built decades earlier whose speed, weaponry, and transporter specs have been long since outclassed be given a prefix which in this new scheme designates (now generically) an experimental prototype?

Perhaps exactly because she would be of no operational worth? There have been special prefixes for foreign / captured enemy hardware in past wars, and while the hardware may have been cutting edge operational armament in its day, it would be experimental in the hands of its new owners.

Say, air-independent German submarines could have won WWII for Germany, but while they did enter service, they did not do so in sufficient numbers or sufficiently early on. Any other warring party would have benefited from the tech, too. Yet after the war, the propulsion system was but a curiosity to the Allies, and the cutting edge war machines mere experiments to be run to destruction.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

Immediately after Robinson's daredevil flight, in which "the warp 2 barrier" was broken, this is stated (with several decades of hindsight)

No, not immediately after Robinson's flight; immediately after Archer's flight that followed it (on which Robinson was also present):

ARCHER: Warp 2.15...you'd better get that intermix locked down because I'm not backing off 'til I break your record. Got it?
ROBINSON: Almost.
[...]
ARCHER: NX-Beta to Commodore Forrest. You might want to check your sensors. You'll see that we're holding steady at 2.5.

Others (even from Earth) must have deployed escape pods at warp later on, so we learn here that a record books entry on a "first" won't get overwritten by later feats - just as we'd expect. Yet Robinson is not credited with breaking warp two, even though this would be the perfect opportunity to say so, and indeed that record would have been a better apology for wrecking the test rig - heavily suggesting that Robinson broke no records by exceeding warp 2.

You've missed this crucial bit from earlier, after Robinson has made his escape from NX-Alpha, when Archer is trying to convince him to co-pilot NX-Beta:

ARCHER: You just went faster than any human being ever has, and now you're going to walk away? Let them put the ship in mothballs when we're so close to breaking Warp 3?

And at the outset of the story, before Robinson's flight, the immediate goal was explicitly specified as "trying to break the Warp 2 barrier."

Robinson, Archer, and Duvall each was in his turn "the fastest man alive," (recall Chuck Yeager and his cohorts) and every successive warp factor was considered a barrier to be "broken" at that point. The first Warp 4 vessel attached to Earth and/or flown by humans needs to post-date Duvall's breaking of Warp 3, at least if going by that continuity. (I was going by the date given on Memory Alpha for that, yet I see now that it isn't actually nailed down explicitly in the episode, but is inferred: NX-01 was launched in April 2151, and considering it seems to have taken at least a year and a half to construct her sister ship Columbia, we probably shouldn't assume her keel was laid any earlier than 2150, especially since she actually left spacedock a few weeks early as per "Silent Enemy." Duvall's flight was 5 years before that, so sometime in 2145 at the very latest.)

 

[Kor]

Frankly, the only thing that doesn't fit is "warp four." Everything fits perfectly with the Franklin launching just after the founding of the Federation except that line. If only it was an experimental Warp Six engine. That would have worked well (and given the level of detail referencing stuff from Star Trek: Enterprise, it's an odd little slip up).

That being said, I wouldn't chalk it up to a continuity error or a changed timeline. The simplest answer is Scotty either misspoke or misremembered.

Edison was given an old jalopy as a consolation prize for his MACO service. The Franklin had already been around for a while when the Federation was founded.

Kor

 

[Phily B]

According to lead picture editor Dylan Highsmith, "Warp Four" was not a slip up:

If you want the official explanation on the Franklin and it’s warp factor: it was a M.A.C.O. ship (or a United Earth Starfleet ship that housed M.A.C.O. personnel at times) that predates the NX-01.

When the UFP Starfleet is formed, M.A.C.O. was disbanded and the ship was reclassified as a Starfleet ship [with the USS identifier]. The ship is then “lost” in the early 2160’s.

It was important to everyone that the ship, like Edison, predate the Federation; that thematically, the ship mirrored an earlier time in history and served as a bridge in design between then and the NX-01.

Doug [Jung] and Simon [Pegg] may have worked up something [on an official launch date], but if they did it never made it to script or screen.

Either way it predates the NX-01, and was reclassified after the UFP is formed.

That's pretty cool.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I know it's not a popular view among Trek fans, but I consider nearly each instance of time travel in Trek to have created a new branch, most of them nearly identical. We simply follow the POV of the main characters, who "return" to what they believe is the "original" timeline--and can't tell the difference. With the reboot, we stay with the POV of the Narada crew and Spock Prime--thus exploring the new branch in detail. In any event, I long ago stopped trying to "figure out" time travel stories--none of them withstand scrutiny. I simply accept whatever "rules" the storyteller says are governing the time travel incident. Much healthier for one's blood pressure.

The way I see it is basically this:

There is no single "original timeline," but rather an infinite number of parallel realities all coexisting "from the Big Bang to the end of everything" to use Pegg's phrase. For any given set of outcomes out of infinite possibilities, there is a timeline/universe/reality that represents that set. (This as per "Parallels" [TNG].) When we as outside observers talk about "the Prime Timeline" what we're describing is the particular set that contains all the events we've seen up to the 2009 film (and the ones that will transpire in the new Discovery series according to Bryan Fuller), including all the various time travel jiggery-pokery. When we talk about the "Kelvin Timeline," we're describing a different set, which shares some things in common with that Prime reality but not others (and the writers are at liberty to define and re-define exactly what falls under which on an ongoing basis, just as past writers were free to do for the Prime universe). Whether this reality is described as being "created" by Nero and Spock Prime or whether they're described as "shifting" into it is merely a matter of the observer's point of view and chosen terminology; it all amounts to the same thing in terms of continuity between the two sets.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

NX-01 was launched in April 2151, and considering it seems to have taken at least a year and a half to construct her sister ship Columbia, we probably shouldn't assume her keel was laid any earlier than 2150, especially since she actually left spacedock a few weeks early as per "Silent Enemy." Duvall's flight was 5 years before that, so sometime in 2145

Just realized that this timeline is firmed up by the reference to Archer having known Tucker (to whom he is introduced in "First Flight") for eight years in "Unexpected" (mid-2151, somewhere between May and July).

2143: Warp 2 barrier broken by Robinson
2145: Warp 3 barrier broken by Duvall ("over a year" + 8 months* after the above)
2150: NX-01 keel laid ("5 years" after Duvall's flight)

*Could be up to 11 months, if the 3 for which the project was grounded following Archer & Robinson's flight are not taken as concurrent with the year+ during which the Vulcans made them run simulations, but it works out the same either way.

So, Franklin hails from sometime in the range of 2145-2151. (Again, that's if following the same timeline as ENT, which we can't say for certain is necessarily the case.)