The way of the warrior!

[TheGodBen]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say that I found this episode pretty weak. Not terrible by any stretch of the imagination, but it was so clear at the time that they were bringing Dorn in as an attempted ratings bump and turning the action up to 11 for the same reason.

Bringing Worf on the show and making the Klingons antagonists were done to boost ratings, but the epic battle scenes were something that Ira Behr supposedly pushed for when he took over as showrunner. His first episode as EP was The Die is Cast, which had the biggest battle shown on Trek at that point in time.

 

[Bishop76]

I loved The Die is Cast and I think ISB was a huge bonus to the show. My problem largely came from the fact that I was a bit Klingoned out after TNG and frankly never found them all that interesting to begin with. I know that goes against the popular opinion, but they were always a one note species and this season and this episode in particular kept beating that one note drum over and over and over again. And I just recoil from ratings stunts. You know when you're watching a show and you see them because they just stand out like a sore thumb against everything the show has been to that point. That's what Way of the Warrior was for me. That sore thumb.

 

[AriesIV]

For me... Up until this point I was tired of Trek Battles being nerf'd. Up until this point the "battle" in AGT was the single most awesome battle moment. The stuff in TNG with BoBW was ok... Yesterday's Enterprise suffered from the "sit here get pounded" type of battle.



The moment Sisko ordered Deep Space Nine to defend itself was and still is the ultimate "WTF" moment in Trek for me. Not only did they turn it up over 11 all the way past 9000 they managed to sustain it.


For the record the second moment would be "Mr. Worf... FIRE" from BoBW.

 

[TheGodBen]

And I just recoil from ratings stunts. You know when you're watching a show and you see them because they just stand out like a sore thumb against everything the show has been to that point. That's what Way of the Warrior was for me. That sore thumb.

I can understand your dislike for ratings stunts, the over-sexualisation and pointless action on Voyager and Enterprise annoyed me for that very reason. But I don't think there's anything wrong with a good old-fashioned event episode every once and a while. And what makes them extra special is that DS9 didn't overuse massive battles, there's only 7 in the whole series so when you see them they stand out as major events.

I can understand your dislike of the Klingons, they were overused, but I don't think that TWOTW stands against everything the show stood for, at least not any more than the introduction of the Dominion. Before The Jem'Hadar, DS9 had been about Bajoran, Cardassian and Federation politics, throwing the Dominion into the mix completely altered the show. The Klingons getting involved in events was a big change, but it made sense within the wider context of the Dominion threat, especially when including the events of season 5.

 

[Listener4]

Reading this thread is making me want to go through DS9 again. I liked DS9 in its first three seasons, but I loved the Way of the Warrior. Really became a fan at that point.

 

[indolover]

To me, it's second only in quality to Far Beyond the Stars. Excellent acting, dialogue, and the best battle scenes in all of Trek (better than the Dominion War eps).

 

[heavylids]

This is a great episode. A lot of people have said that this is when DS9 became great, but in my opinion it was the last episode of the 2nd season. Once the Dominion was introduced the momentum of the show really took off. The events in "Way of the Warrior" just added a new element into DS9's continuing storyline. Then a season later we found out that the Dominion was behind the invasion of Cardassia.

 

[TheGodBen]

For crying out loud, the OP hasn't seen season 5 yet! Please edit you post to remove the spoiler.

 

[DWF]

The Way Of The Warrior was a great action/adventure story but IMO it lacks the depth that marks all the really great Star Trek stories.

 

[flemm]

The Way Of The Warrior was a great action/adventure story but IMO it lacks the depth that marks all the really great Star Trek stories.

I wouldn't put it quite this way, but I do agree in a sense. To me, what makes DS9 a great show overall is that it is constantly increasing its scope, adding layers of plot and characterization, building on what it has accomplished previously, while experimenting with new ideas and storylines. The show keeps doing this right up until the end: each season has its own identity and contributes something new to the overall canvas. At the same time, the show never forgets where it came from and is constantly revisiting themes, ideas and character points from the early seasons. Not everything works, obviously, but the show is percolating with ideas where most of TNG-era Trek is incredibly bland and formulaic.

So, I have problems with the idea that DS9 becomes a great show with The Way of the Warrior. This episode does bring some important new elements to the table: an increase in scope and a new level of epic action. But at the same time, if the rest of DS9 were like The Way of the Warrior, and if the show had dropped the themes and ideas of the early seasons from this point forward, it would not be the great show that it is. TWotW is an important piece of the puzzle, but only one piece among many important pieces.

On a side note, while it is undoubtedly true that one reason why DS9 was constantly trying to re-invent itself was an ultimately futile quest to recapture TNG ratings glory, I don't see that this diminishes what the show accomplished creatively. Success can breed complacency (TNG season 7), while having to work hard to overcome initially medicore results (as DS9 was forced to do through the middle seasons) can spur innovation.

So, trying to make the show appealing to a broader range of viewers is not in itself a bad thing, I don't think, as long as it is tied to a certain amount of creative integrity, which I think is definitely the case on DS9. Voyager, as always, provides a useful counter-example, as it was faced with the same problem in the middle seasons, but responded by essentially abandoning its premise, trying to be more like TNG, and focusing heavily on Jeri Ryan to the detriment of most of the rest of the cast.

 

[heavylids]

The Way Of The Warrior was a great action/adventure story but IMO it lacks the depth that marks all the really great Star Trek stories.

I wouldn't put it quite this way, but I do agree in a sense. To me, what makes DS9 a great show overall is that it is constantly increasing its scope, adding layers of plot and characterization, building on what it has accomplished previously, while experimenting with new ideas and storylines. The show keeps doing this right up until the end: each season has its own identity and contributes something new to the overall canvas. At the same time, the show never forgets where it came from and is constantly revisiting themes, ideas and character points from the early seasons. Not everything works, obviously, but the show is percolating with ideas where most of TNG-era Trek is incredibly bland and formulaic.

So, I have problems with the idea that DS9 becomes a great show with The Way of the Warrior. This episode does bring some important new elements to the table: an increase in scope and a new level of epic action. But at the same time, if the rest of DS9 were like The Way of the Warrior, and if the show had dropped the themes and ideas of the early seasons from this point forward, it would not be the great show that it is. TWotW is an important piece of the puzzle, but only one piece among many important pieces.

Well said.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Trek is better then stargate

Well I'm glad that's settled!

 

[TheGodBen]

Well said.

While you're here, please edit your earlier post with the spoiler as a courtesy to the OP.

 

[DWF]

The Way Of The Warrior was a great action/adventure story but IMO it lacks the depth that marks all the really great Star Trek stories.

I wouldn't put it quite this way, but I do agree in a sense. To me, what makes DS9 a great show overall is that it is constantly increasing its scope, adding layers of plot and characterization, building on what it has accomplished previously, while experimenting with new ideas and storylines. The show keeps doing this right up until the end: each season has its own identity and contributes something new to the overall canvas. At the same time, the show never forgets where it came from and is constantly revisiting themes, ideas and character points from the early seasons. Not everything works, obviously, but the show is percolating with ideas where most of TNG-era Trek is incredibly bland and formulaic.

So, I have problems with the idea that DS9 becomes a great show with The Way of the Warrior. This episode does bring some important new elements to the table: an increase in scope and a new level of epic action. But at the same time, if the rest of DS9 were like The Way of the Warrior, and if the show had dropped the themes and ideas of the early seasons from this point forward, it would not be the great show that it is. TWotW is an important piece of the puzzle, but only one piece among many important pieces.

That's not quite what I meant, I meant that all the really good Star Trek stories have a message or moral to it something that tells us more about ourselves and humanity in general. The Way Of The Warrior has soem action scenes and great visual effects even though they used some Star Trek ornaments for ships and it had some great performances in it but little beyond that at least to me.

 

[flemm]

That's not quite what I meant, I meant that all the really good Star Trek stories have a message or moral to it something that tells us more about ourselves and humanity in general.

Right, as I said, "I wouldn't put it quite that way, but I do agree in a sense."

 

[kalskylander]

thanks for looking out bro.

For crying out loud, the OP hasn't seen season 5 yet! Please edit you post to remove the spoiler.

 

[TheGodBen]

I've been here long enough to be bored of discussing most elements of Star Trek, but I still enjoy threads where first-timers comment on DS9 so I try to foster an environment where newbies can discuss the show without fear of being spoiled. DS9 has some great twists coming in the next few seasons that really shocked me when I first saw them and I think it's only fair that you have the opportunity to experience those twists too.