Spoilers The Walking Dead: the 11th and final season

[Morpheus 02]

Going back to Milton as a vilain...

I see what both sides are arguing here.

I would compare this to Captain America's dveelopment as a hero vs. Superman in Man of Steel

CA effectively showed Steve's character in a couple of scenes, and then gave us a montage to help us accept him as belieable team leader.

Man of Steel had a couple good scenes that would have been great to build on (Martha using techniques to help special needs kids for CLark; JOnathan's "What kind of man will you be" questions)....but completely dropped the ball on developing those. And Clark's "trainign " as a hero was apparently doing the TV Incredible Hulk thing of wandering around from small job to small job and leaving once he uses his powers.

For Pamela.... the "reality" is that her "strength" is having a stable communityof 50,000.

However, the show wasn'table to really capture the scope



And regarding how bad the "stormtroopers" were.... did you notice that they had military recruitment posters all over?

The Commonwealth, at least by the time it was really established, tried to get people back to their pre-apocalypse positions. But presumably many of the actual soldiers had died early on.

I am not sure if many people were able to get in early, and sneak past the way Tomi did (who was able to NOT become a doctor, until Yumiko forced it out). More than likely, trained soldiers like Mercer would have made temselves known early. I am assuming that many of those most experienced soldiers have perished also over the years, which is one reason why they are recruiting now.

The training apparently isn't very long, as Rosita & Darryl joined the ranks fairly quickly. But unlike our heroes, these new recruits had near xero experience against the dead, and probably not even against "live" enemies. They might have been more for intmidation than actual practical military use.


The Commonwealth society is like America today... (mostly) white surburanites and Yuppies have no idea what happens in black and brown communtiies, nor see the inequities that exist. Yeah, life seemed good for most people...and Max articulates this... that she thought she was doing good, but she started seeing what was REALLY happening... which resulted in her reaching out to Eugene.

Also, i didn't realize that they had sent the Walkers to the "rich part of town", the Estates.... was that another callback to Wiltshire Estates?

I grew up in Hoffman Estates in suburban Chicago... but we weren't the elite , at least not on my side of the tollway.

 

[The Wormhole]

did you notice that they had military recruitment posters all over?

Naturally. After all, the show is about a decade into the apocalypse. Assuming the Commonwealth was established some point approximate to the collapse of society (as is implied) that would mean in the past decade there would have been children who came of age within the Commonwealth. As these children would not have had pre-apocalypse careers to be inserted into, they would have had to find their own way, and I imagine military service might have been one of the more promising prospects for Commonwealth youth seeking employment. It's an essential service, there's plenty of vacancy and the training period is comparably shorter compared to jobs which likely involve extensive education.

 

[Starkers]

I heard Chandler Riggs has an uncredited cameo in the one year later segment.

Did we ever find out what the location some of the exiles were sent to was?

 

[The Wormhole]

I heard Chandler Riggs has an uncredited cameo in the one year later segment.

He's doing farming work in Alexandria. Good luck trying to find him, they had him wear a hat to wear and made sure there was never a good angle on his face.

Greg Nicotero also has another cameo as a Walker in this episode, he's the one Daryl drives by on his motorcycle at the end of the episode.

Did we ever find out what the location some of the exiles were sent to was?

I thought it was that prison camp? At the very least, that former soldier Princess knew was among the ones who mysteriously disappeared earlier in the season and he ended up at the prison camp.

 

[Starkers]

No I mean the secondary location Connie was going to be sent to

 

[The Wormhole]

Oh, that probably doesn't have an official explanation given what it could be was the subject of a Talking Dead poll. I forget what all the options were that you could vote for, but the one that got the most votes was that it was a helipad where people were collected and sent to the Civic Republic.

 

[Starkers]

Aha!

 

[theenglish]

So far, I have been mostly disappointed with the "final episodes".

The show has done a poor job of turning Pamela into some sort of fearsome villain, imho. In terms of villainy, Pamela can't hold a candle to the likes of Negan, or past baddies like the Governor, or even Alpha.

....

For a supposed villain, Pamela demonstrated openness and generosity by welcoming outsiders to immigrate and to integrate into Commonwealth society.

Pamela is not a villain like those people. She is more of the type of villain we have in the real world today. That is the point of the final story arc.

White, economically privileged folk whose main goal in life is to maintain their socio-economic status survive the apocalypse and form a community that maintains their status and privilege and (as much as they can) the status quo of what came before. Everyone has the same types of jobs as they had before the apocalypse and although there are really nice things for everyone to do in the community, its purpose is to keep the common people happy so the class structures can be preserved.

The whole Commonwealth story is a commentary on our contemporary society and the "villains" that maintain class structures today. That's why Mercer's final commnent comes across so powerfully.

 

[theenglish]

I really doubt they will kill Judith...but will they showbthe reunion with Rick and Michonne here??? Seems out of the blue, and would that take out the steam of the miniseries??

I've been thinking that Judith has built in plot armor. Wasn't that scene of her putting her gun in its holster a scene from the future or was it something we've already seen?

EDIT: Just watching the final episode now--I can't believe how long its been since I first started reading the comic nearly twenty years ago. The scene in this episode where Maggie tells Negan why she cannot forgive him was so well done I almost cried. Jeffrey Morgan does so much without saying anything and Cohan delivers her lines brilliantly. Followed by the dinner scene, with Darryl looking at Negan out the window and Stevie Nicks playing and then Rosita tells Gabriel with Judith watching them--just a wonderful scene I'm going to ignore that how soon a person becomes a walker all depends on plot.

 

[theenglish]

I know this is three posts in a row, but I just want to thank Trek_God_1 for posting his reviews over the years and really keeping these threads alive. The Walking Dead is in my top five greatest comics stories and television series in over five decades and I've looked forward to, agreed and disagreed with his posts over the years--but his episode reviews were always something I looked forward to.

I know we still have Fear and sequel series coming up--but for me, this is the one true Walking Dead story. An incredible accomplishment that Kirkman's full comic series was translated to the television medium and, despite deviations in the details, really kept the main narrative and spirit of the story intact from beginning to end.

 

[Jayson1]

Pamela is not a villain like those people. She is more of the type of villain we have in the real world today. That is the point of the final story arc.

White, economically privileged folk whose main goal in life is to maintain their socio-economic status survive the apocalypse and form a community that maintains their status and privilege and (as much as they can) the status quo of what came before. Everyone has the same types of jobs as they had before the apocalypse and although there are really nice things for everyone to do in the community, its purpose is to keep the common people happy so the class structures can be preserved.

The whole Commonwealth story is a commentary on our contemporary society and the "villains" that maintain class structures today. That's why Mercer's final commnent comes across so powerfully.

I don't think it works well in a zombie apocalypse. The world seemed more stable and strong and beneficial to everyone compared to some of the other groups we have seen. Most of the land in reality would be filled with Governors and Negans at this point. You would eventually have a issue when the asshole son comes of age to where he is expected to become the next leader but that was still some time in the future.

 

[theenglish]

I think the problem there comes from "World Beyond" though. In the comics, there was nothing like that--some loose groups here and there but nothing like an organized society and the Commonwealth had taken years to build up, had the biggest army, and was even more protective of who went in and out.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Pamela is not a villain like those people. She is more of the type of villain we have in the real world today. That is the point of the final story arc.

White, economically privileged folk whose main goal in life is to maintain their socio-economic status survive the apocalypse and form a community that maintains their status and privilege and (as much as they can) the status quo of what came before. Everyone has the same types of jobs as they had before the apocalypse and although there are really nice things for everyone to do in the community, its purpose is to keep the common people happy so the class structures can be preserved.

The whole Commonwealth story is a commentary on our contemporary society and the "villains" that maintain class structures today. That's why Mercer's final commnent comes across so powerfully.

Well said. As the world tried to recover, those who were actively trying to restore the old world could be evil (like Pamela), but she was not going to operate like the more base, closed-off, sub-tribal "communities" or groups that sprang-up (either out of desperation and/or abuse) like Woodbury, Terminus, the Wolves, the Saviors or the police cult of Grady Memorial Hospital. The surface message, or sold face of The Commonwealth was the natural course a community would take in the quest to restore pre-ZA life, while the other groups, with their small-minded tribalism, function more like petty gangs who rule with a decidedly anti-progressive iron fist over small numbers.

I've been thinking that Judith has built in plot armor. Wasn't that scene of her putting her gun in its holster a scene from the future or was it something we've already seen?

I believed there was an earlier holster shot--probably from the previous season.

The scene in this episode where Maggie tells Negan why she cannot forgive him was so well done I almost cried. Jeffrey Morgan does so much without saying anything and Cohan delivers her lines brilliantly.

The one conversation (on the steps at night and the final scene between the two) that the series needed for nearly half of the series' run was so perfectly handled. Few would argue that it was possible for Maggie to need to hear Negan apologize in order for her to "move on" yet be incapable of forgiving him. The apology--rather, Maggie's need to hear it--allowed her to take Negan out of the pure "monster" category he occupied since the night of the Lucille line-up, and see that he was and to many degrees remains a dysfunctional man with issues he will likely never overcome. Seeing his true self now gives her the strength to--as she put it--tolerate / work with him on occasion.

I look forward to their series, but as always, I hope Annie and Hershel do not become victims to lay on tragedy or as a plot point to draw Maggie and Negan closer, when their shared sense of other losses should do that (for Negan, his 1st wife, and Maggie, her father and sister).

Rosita tells Gabriel with Judith watching them--just a wonderful scene I'm going to ignore that how soon a person becomes a walker all depends on plot.

I guess it depends on the severity of the bite, and the health of the person bitten. Andrea's bite on the shoulder (S3/E16 - "Welcome to the Tombs") was deep, but she seemed to hold on well into nightfall, while Rosita's sort-of scrape on the back was nowhere near as deep, so she succumbed to her bite the following morning (or so the scene progression would suggest the passage of one evening), meaning she lasted a bit longer, setting some consistency between the two cases.

I know this is three posts in a row, but I just want to thank Trek_God_1 for posting his reviews over the years and really keeping these threads alive. The Walking Dead is in my top five greatest comics stories and television series in over five decades and I've looked forward to, agreed and disagreed with his posts over the years--but his episode reviews were always something I looked forward to.

Thank you. The series--well, no series--is perfect, but I've really enjoyed most of TWD more than most fantasy TV series of this century (with a couple of exceptions, such as Black Lightning and The Falcon and the Winter Soldier).

 

[Starkers]

I was still hoping that just once we'd see someone bit who died and didn't come back. It'd be good to see that tiny injection of hope for the future.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I was still hoping that just once we'd see someone bit who died and didn't come back. It'd be good to see that tiny injection of hope for the future.

Are we certain the spin-offs or FTWD will not explore that idea? Or at least someone develop a drug which guarantees a person will not reanimate (IOW, suppressing the walker virus)?

 

[Admiral2]

Are we certain the spin-offs or FTWD will not explore that idea? Or at least someone develop a drug which guarantees a person will not reanimate (IOW, suppressing the walker virus)?

I think objectively that a suppression drug would make more sense than hoping for the infection to burn itself out. It seems like there's still too much living human flesh to infect and incubate the virus.

 

[Blake Eddington]

Are we certain the spin-offs or FTWD will not explore that idea? Or at least someone develop a drug which guarantees a person will not reanimate (IOW, suppressing the walker virus)?

I think World Beyond would have gotten to that, but it flopped and AMC pretended it was meant to be a limited series.

 

[Blake Eddington]

Pretty cool that 800k more people watched the finale than the penultimate episode. Means people who dropped the show cared enough to tune in for the ending.

 

[Blake Eddington]

And one more thing - I think the fact that they made Negan a believably likeable character is an EXTREMELY underrated piece of writing. They portrayed the guy as such a horrible bastard that 5 million viewers tuned out the moment he killed Glenn. And now he is arguably the main protagonist, and it actually doesn't feel forced. Incredible.

 

[The Wormhole]

Are we certain the spin-offs or FTWD will not explore that idea?

I guess the Darryl series could potentially cover it, given it's set in France and the post-credit scene in the World Beyond finale carries the implication France is where the zombie virus began.