The Visitor?

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I love The Visitor. Really, any episode that explored the father-son bond between Sisko and Jake was good in my book. I love when Jake (as an old man), told his father that his younger self "needs you more than you." Poor Jake had already lost one parent... great acting as always. Actually, I don't know how much acting was required, since Avery Brooks has gone on record saying he considers Cirroc Lofton a surrogate son.

 

[Pauln6]

The Visitor is one of my favourite episodes. I thought Sisko's rather muted reaction to events was partly due to his link with the Prophets for whom non-linear events are no surprise. We see a very similar, Zen-like reaction when we have echoes of 'the Visitor' at the end of the series too. When you compare Sisko's calm bemusement to Jake's entirely emotional, obsessive response to the unfolding events and his obsession with 'saving' his father it makes a heart-rending story. I think they should have had a young 'replacement' Dax in the future scenes though.

I generally loathe any time travel episodes where time gets re-written and the Voyager finale was no exception (I'll only give City on the Edge of Forever a pass because of the Guardian's involvement). However, Granny Janeway absolutely rocked.

The Visitor comes closer to the concept of anti-time in All Good Things but overall, the time travel part of the story makes no real sense. Treating it as a vision from the Prophets would give the plot a bit more internal logic I suppose.

 

[Joshonator]

I thought the episode was OK but bad in the sense that it tried to be an emotional episode and ended up seeming more dull/depressing than anything else to me.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Another comment I meant to address last night, but forgot to mention was the comment that someone made referring to Tony Todd (the actor who played 'adult' Jake) as a 'random actor'. Tony Todd is no 'random actor'. Because not only did he play adult Jake Sisko in this episode, but he also played Kurn in TNG and DS9, and was in VOY as well once or twice, IIRC.

He's also been on other scifi shows - Stargate SG-1, Andromeda, Angel, etc.

Perhaps he is not quite along the lines of Jeffrey Combs...but he wasn't a no-name actor either, which to me is what the term 'random actor' implies.

Just a little nit, but I thought I'd mention it.

 

[Utopianvista]

I can't stand the Inner Light and find it boring trash. Everyone else loves it. My best friend has recently got into Star Trek TNG and DS9 and agreed with me. First person to ever agree with me on that episode!

I think the Visitor is one of the greatest pieces of Trek. But I can certainly understand why people wouldn't like it. It's a reset button episode and could be argued to be pointless. Not that I necessarily agree but I can understand that viewpoint.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I can't stand the Inner Light and find it boring trash. Everyone else loves it. My best friend has recently got into Star Trek TNG and DS9 and agreed with me. First person to ever agree with me on that episode!

Well, now you know another one. I HATE that episode. I really hate it. And here is why:

For several years, we got hardly zero character development on Picard past his Starfleet/Command background and Federation party-line positions. And now all of a sudden we are launched into this sickly sweet tear-jerker drama about 'what if' he had been this warm fuzzy family man? GAH! I find that episode almost embarrassing to watch, it's so....utterly outside the character we had seen up until that point.

With The Visitor, we had plenty of lead in. Ben and Jake had ALWAYS been shown to be a family - they had always been shown to be 3-dimensional people who had lives and interests outside of what takes place on the bridge of a starship. Little bits and pieces of their personal hopes, dreams, disappointments, pain, and ongoing family drama can be found all through DS9. It doesn't all just come out of nowhere in a single episode.

With Picard, we had very little of that sort of character development. Almost everything we knew about Picard up until that point was directly related to his Starfleet career.

So when they launched into this Inner Light touchy-feely Picard, it actually made me embarrassed and uncomfortable. I felt like a voyeur who wasn't supposed to look...who wasn't supposed to know this much...because the TNG writers themselves had built this massive wall around the character of Picard, and stuck a giant sign on that wall which read "KEEP OUT. I AM A STARSHIP CAPTAIN. MY "FEELINGS" ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS."

I think the Visitor is one of the greatest pieces of Trek. But I can certainly understand why people wouldn't like it. It's a reset button episode and could be argued to be pointless. Not that I necessarily agree but I can understand that viewpoint.

Different strokes for different folks.

I honestly don't understand why people have such a problem with the reset button. I mean, I could understand it if it was used all the time...but there are very few instances of the reset button being used in DS9.

And regardless, this was not a story about 'events' as much as it was a story about 'feelings'. And the reset button was just a vehicle by which those feelings were illustrated. The things that we learn about this relationship are still true, even after the rest button is pressed. Because this episode was never about the actions. It was about the feelings. And those feelings don't change when the action is reset.

 

[PsychoPere]

For several years, we got hardly zero character development on Picard past his Starfleet/Command background and Federation party-line positions. And now all of a sudden we are launched into this sickly sweet tear-jerker drama about 'what if' he had been this warm fuzzy family man? GAH! I find that episode almost embarrassing to watch, it's so....utterly outside the character we had seen up until that point.

Well, we did have "Family" prior to that point, though that's the only other case that I can think of off the top of my head. Granted, "Family" made it seem like Picard had long since accepted the fact that his nephew would carry on the Picard family legacy, rather than a son of his own doing so. I think "The Inner Light" may have been a bit too ambitious in the time periods it covered, since we didn't really get to see Picard accepting his situation as being Kamin and thus assimilating into Kamin's life, coming to love Kamin's children as if they were his own. "The Inner Light" seems like a story that can't easily justify itself in 45 minutes. I don't hate the episode myself, but I have to agree that it does at least stick out as an oddity. That's why an episode like "The Visitor" did work so well; we had prior investment in the family whose circumstances were being further explored in a fantastical manner, allowing viewers to more easily relate to the situation Jake found himself in.

 

[Damask]

I think the Visitor is one of the greatest pieces of Trek. But I can certainly understand why people wouldn't like it. It's a reset button episode and could be argued to be pointless. Not that I necessarily agree but I can understand that viewpoint.

Ok yes there was a reset button but doesnt Sisko actually remember this timeline? Isnt more similar to "The Inner Light" in that the events happened for Sisko but not for anybody else?

 

[Jono]

^ I wish they had done something with it though, much like how in "Little Green Men" we had Nog and co mention that Sisko looked like Bell.

Also Sisko remembering that timeline make, imho, the ridiculous decision not to have Ben say goodbye to Jake in the final episode even worse.

 

[RAMA]

Yeah I realize not every great episode will be liked by everyone but like Inner Light from STNG--which took until last year to find out anyone disliked the episode--this is a first for me as well. Personally I like "concept" stories, which is why I have a preference for STNG, and the Dominion saga in DS9, but I can appreciate the characters and stories of DS9..and this episode really demonstrates the closeness of the father and son in the "Rifleman" dynamic planned for the show.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

For several years, we got hardly zero character development on Picard past his Starfleet/Command background and Federation party-line positions. And now all of a sudden we are launched into this sickly sweet tear-jerker drama about 'what if' he had been this warm fuzzy family man? GAH! I find that episode almost embarrassing to watch, it's so....utterly outside the character we had seen up until that point.

Well, we did have "Family" prior to that point, though that's the only other case that I can think of off the top of my head. Granted, "Family" made it seem like Picard had long since accepted the fact that his nephew would carry on the Picard family legacy, rather than a son of his own doing so. I think "The Inner Light" may have been a bit too ambitious in the time periods it covered, since we didn't really get to see Picard accepting his situation as being Kamin and thus assimilating into Kamin's life, coming to love Kamin's children as if they were his own. "The Inner Light" seems like a story that can't easily justify itself in 45 minutes. I don't hate the episode myself, but I have to agree that it does at least stick out as an oddity. That's why an episode like "The Visitor" did work so well; we had prior investment in the family whose circumstances were being further explored in a fantastical manner, allowing viewers to more easily relate to the situation Jake found himself in.

I don't think so. Part of the whole point was how incredible it was that a man could experience a life in so short a time...now imagine that in reality...wouldn't it be surreal to wake up to?

 

[sonak]

"The Inner Light," like the Generations nexus fantasy, was about the road-not-traveled. Yes Picard had reconciled himself to not having a family of his own, but these were both scenarios that were not under his conscious control. (TIL because it was a somewhat pre-programmed scenario, and the nexus fantasy because it was sort of plucked from his subconscious)

It's the whole "fish out of water" premise of showing Picard as the contented family man that made the touching contrast. If it was just a scenario of him as the administrator of the city without any family of his own, it would've been a lot like his Starfleet career, and hence no contrast.

 

[Tosk]

Also Sisko remembering that timeline make, imho, the ridiculous decision not to have Ben say goodbye to Jake in the final episode even worse.

Except that it's only the final episode for us as an audience. For all you know, Ben visited with Jake the very next day.

 

[Navaros]

did anyone else not like 'The Visitor'?? Everyone seems to love it and its on all the top tens, but I found it really annoying, then I watched it with my parents are they found it really annoying!

I don't love The Visitor and I will always be baffled at its universal acclaim.

I don't hate it either. IMO it's simply a mediocre episode. I wouldn't even put it in DS9's top 50, much less top 10.

Pushing the big red reset button at the end is uber-lame. The Search Part II gets perpetually hammered for that very thing, yet The Visitor always gets off scott-free.

Besides that, it's also sloppy how they completely ignored the Dominion factor in The Visitor's script.

Now, if they had Jake really die in The Visitor, then it would have been a great episode.

And you are right - The Visitor is emotionally satisfying.

IMO The Visitor is not emotionally satisfying at all, for the aforementioned reasons. In fact, I'd say the opposite is true. The reset button which it presses at the end is akin to a slap in the face-emotionally disturbing, and not in a poignant way.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Yeah, it does have a reset button, some massive techno babble and quick fixes, but there is something about this episode that gets to people.

It could be the father/son story, it was easy to feel sorry for Jake.

The music plus mood also had a factor in it, I think.

 

[DonIago]

I don't quite consider it a reset button in that Ben retains memories of the alternate timeline. I haven't watched the series in full in awhile, but I think maybe his bond with Jake was a little tighter after this episode.

 

[DS9forever]

^ Yeah, its no reset button episode. Its one of the top ten Star Trek episodes ever. Tony Todd should have won an Emmy.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I started a thread the other day about hating Ezri, so dont think I just love bad-mouthing stuff, but did anyone else not like 'The Visitor'?? Everyone seems to love it and its on all the top tens, but I found it really annoying, then I watched it with my parents are they found it really annoying!

I'm not too fond of the episode me self...