Spoilers The Vanquishers grade and discussion thread

How do you rate The Vanquishers

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I could see leaving things open as to if the universe has reset or not for the next guy but since the Daleks were the first thing shown in the next time preview that seems moot.

As to the TARDIS doors I just assumed that was due to time being wonky. Though like most of this you either have to guess or catch some half uttered line to try to piece together.
So, umm, I'll freely admit that I wasn't paying much attention by the end...but did they actually undo all the damage done by The Flux? Because if they did, I must have missed it. Wasn't a lot of the universe destroyed? Isn't that kind of a big deal?

I was started to fall asleep (teaches me not to time shift the episodes) - but I'm glad I wasn't the only confused in regard to this. The Arrowverse Crisis on Infinite Earths finale was a lot more clear about where things were left/the new normal than this take on universal destruction.
Pretty much every post in this thread reads as anti-Chibnall bias, and it's rather sad and simultaneously illuminating.

Every plot thread that was unspooled in The Halloween Apocalypse and over the succeeding four episodes was tied up with this episode (something that I genuinely didn't think was going to happen but am happy to have been wrong about).

The only legitimate issues with the story as a whole are the anticlimax of the Doctor not getting her memories back and the incongruity of every Dalek being destroyed by the Flux just one episode before a story that features them (and the latter is only an issue because it unnecessarily creates a story hole that now has to be filled).
How did the Sontarans wipe out all the Lupari? We've seen that one Lupari can beat several Sontarans, so some must win the fight.
How did the Sontarans wipe out all the Lupari? We've seen that one Lupari can beat several Sontarans, so some must win the fight.

The Sontarans boarded every Lupari ship - likely through transmatting - and ejected all of those ships' occupants out into space.
Watching what little I did of this season only reinforces my decision to stop watching Doctor Who. I am not asking for RTD to do anything for me, but I sure hope he does something right with this franchise, something which will draw this decades long fan back to the franchise.
New Year's Special: Oh, boy. The Daleks. Again. Hooray.
Oh, joy. Again with the damned Daleks. How original. :rolleyes:

There is something very "odd" (for want of a better word) about the Chibnall-era of Who. It seems to be defined by "tell, don't show".
Indeed. All the speeches and speeches and speeches of exposition became completely ridiculous. Thankfully all the actors concerned were good enough that all the exposition wasn't completely boring but it really isn't the best or most entertaining means of advancing a story.

So, umm, I'll freely admit that I wasn't paying much attention by the end...but did they actually undo all the damage done by The Flux? Because if they did, I must have missed it. Wasn't a lot of the universe destroyed? Isn't that kind of a big deal?
You'd think, wouldn't you? But apparently it either all magically undid itself or everyone forgot about it. Or something.
Then again, Carvinista's entire race were wiped out offscreen and it was only mentioned like twice afterwards.
I still don't get why it was necessary to destroy the entire race (why the hell were all of them there, anyway? Were there that few of them?). The general indifference to it afterward was pathetic.
Yeah, that was a cheap way to make Dan rejoin the TARDIS. I mean, they could have had her say she was traumatized and needs time or something. I bet at the end of the specials or whenever Dan leaves the TARDIS, we'll learn she's changed her mind.

I interpreted her remarks as meaning just that (i.e. that she needs time). When Dan offers to take her to a restaurant, she first says "Do you mind if we don't?" But then, after Dan's explanation, her voice and manner becomes a bit lighter and she says "Maybe not tomorrow" (implication: I don't want to meet with you tomorrow but maybe at some future date).
I was really hoping this would all come together in a satisfying way.

I think my favorite part of the episode was the Doctor turning the tables on the Serpent. It's one of the few moments in her entire run when she gets to truly feel in charge of the situation.

But the rest of it really didn't work for me. All the individual villains were really lame and defeated way too easily. While I'm relieved that Vinder and Bel don't seem to be the Doctor's parents, it means that they served no purpose to the overall plot. Certainly, nothing that couldn't be done by other characters. Even Dan had no real purpose.

Overall, I'd say that this was probably Chibnall's most engaging season and probably had the best writing for the Doctor, but the story just fell flat. My opinion, anyway.
Pretty much every post in this thread reads as anti-Chibnall bias, and it's rather sad and simultaneously illuminating.

As opposed to pro-Chibnall bias? :shifty:

I would disagree that everything was tied up. What we actually seemed to have was a bunch of things that were inferred to be important that actually weren't.

So Dan wasn't important in the slightest. The reason Karvanista reached Earth ahead of the Lupari was just random coincidence and the reason Azure kidnapped Diane was...was...she's ablieist? Not a lot else makes sense. Dan wasn't really the Doctor's companion at this point and even if he was, why target someone close to Dan and leave Yaz's family untouched?

Who were Swarm and Azure? What were Swarm and Azure? Why was Swarm held in maximum security and Azure simply fobwatched and left on Earth? Were they Timelords or something else? I'm not saying it really matters but after 5 episodes of set up they were dealt with rather easily (defeated not by the Doctor but, er, Time itself for some reason.) Fantastic design and great performances but in the end they were just easily vanquished foes who talked too much.

So Vinder and Pel were just regular nobodies all along, to be honest it's a relief, but still handy that Vinder had a grudge against the Grand Serpent, and talking of which...

The Grand Serpent, in the end just another low level villain who served no real purpose. Did the Sontarans really need him to undermine UNIT all those years? Probably not so what was the point? To give Kate someone to but heads with? It was great to see her but did we really need UNIT in this? And talking of UNIT so they did have a Tardis hidden away all this time and never mentioned it to the Third Doctor? Or in fact any other Doctor they've had dealings with?

The Rogue Angel, I can't recall is Tectuen said something about it? Ah Tectuen. "Yes Doctor it is I, your adoptive mother who you have no memory of and no relationship to and now I'm going to destroy the universe and...ugh I'm dead" Utterly pointless.

And so much happened off screen. The Lupari all died, Diane became an expert in Passengers, Kate led the resistance against the Sontarans. Yaz and co travelled the world (for some vague reason).

This whole season has been 90% set up and 10% payoff.

Yet despite all this, as I've said, I've consistently enjoyed this season more than I have the previous two. Anti Chibnall bias indeed. As has been said I have a anti bad writing bias
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I am not anti-Chibnall. When he was announced as show-runner for Doctor Who I was intrigued to see what he can do. When it came back in 2005 I found the show fun, exciting and refreshing, but I will admit not everything RTD did worked for me. But overall it was enjoyable fun. Everytime we get new showrunner I hope we recapture that, but so far not really.

I did like the resolution to the cliffhanger this week, with the Doctor just running away.

Also, like others have said, what is the state of the universe now? Has the Flux destroyed most of it. And like I said before, is the moon gone too or was that also shielded since there is a moonbase there?
I really didn't like it.

But I'll play nice as I figure more people are going to go in hard.

But I'll sat the the one thing I did love with the episode - the Doctor shamelessly flirting with herself! That was solid gold.

I'd happily pay for a new series just to focus on the adventures of Yaz, Dan & Jericho circa 1901-4.

Also Kate was great. But did anybody feel like there where two Kate's talking in the caves (just like the two Doctors). Going back and forth alternate angles each time.

And I suppose I'm fine with the Doctor placing her Fobwatch of memories deep in the Tardis as opposed to losing them. However I don't want them as an unanswered McGuffin.

Okay I said some nice things. And I'll never complain about Moffat's writing skills again.

I'll leave it here. Bring on RTD to reboot the hell out of this shit.
The Doctor not finding out about her pre-Hartnell self is the best outcome, actually. In response to how this was actually a letdown. And for a couple of reasons - chief of them being, there's no way Chib would actually satisfyingly conclude that storyline within the breadth of this storyline, especially in light of how messed up everything else was wrapped up in a rather dubious, unconvincing, rushed sort of way. But the second reason is, the idea that she doesn't know was sorta the whole point? Making her remember all that kinda defeats the purpose I would think.
5/10 because I worked out the solution with 20 minutes to spare. So disappointing. I kind of figured it out near the middle of this short series when we were first introduced to
passenger forms

Was the other Doctor a future one in the darker coat giving current Doctor an ominous warning?
She just ditched the fob watch. Told the TARDIS to just dump it deep in her guts where she can't find it...... What a cop out?

The Dr Who Flux FB page MAY have given away a big spoiler in their post today while posting a video from last season.


I'm on there........ Yeah not happy how they posted that.
Gave it a 5, and I felt that was being generous.

Be in no doubt, the actors did great stuff with what they were given, especially Jodie. But Chibbers can't write. Full stop. It was all exposition and little action. So much exposition! I taught myself scriptwriting, and it was driven home again and again that was story death. Can't write, can't run a show. The writing was on the wall when he worked on Torchwood. He did, after all, write 'Cyberwoman'.

Speaking of things cyber, whatever happened to the CyberTimelords?