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The Undiscovered Country

Well Martia wasn't really part of the conspiracy out and out. She was just a prisoner used to get close to Kirk and McCoy so they could be killed caught trying to escape.

She was promised a full pardon but they were never intending to give it to her.
 
Why is the Romulan Ambassador sitting in on a presumed classified proposed operation to retrieve Kirk and McCoy by an 'illegal' treaty violating military action?

If you notice the sashes during Khitomer, the Klingons wear red, Federation races wear blue, independent world wear green, and yet all Vulcans and Romulans wear yellow - and Sarek is sitting right next to Nanclus. (Normally, Vulcan would have blue, like the rest of the UFP?) This seems to suggest that there is some kind of pre-Unification truce happening between Romulus and Vulcan, which obviously dissolved after Nanclus was exposed as a conspirator.

So when "Operation: Retrieve" was being proposed, Nanclus was an ally, not an enemy. And, presumably, was being asked to have Romulus on stand-by in case the Klingons declared war.

.
i thought the Romulans wore Green....but the yellow, i couldn't catch...it seemed like some unknown alien races....is there a web page which explains the colors?
 
I'm watching this movie and there's a question I have to ask. When Kirk and Martia are fighting on Rura Penthe after Marta has taken Kirk's form, why doesn't Martia change form or revert to her original form when they are confronted by the group of Klingons? Why do they shoot her immediately instead of waiting for her change form and THEN shoot Kirk?

I believe she also claimed it takes a lot of energy (and perhaps concentration?) for her to shapeshift...she may have been unable to do so at that point.

That being said, it is kind of moot. She was slated for execution regardless.
 
I understand originally in the script at the end of Kirk's trial, when the president throws down his napkin, he says, "Dumbass!"
That may have been cut, but, if you turn your volume up nice and loud toward the end of the movie, when Kirk knocks him down and says, "Kirk, Enterprise" by way of introduction, you can hear him say, "I know who you are - Dumbass!"

Okay. That's not true. :rofl:
 
i thought the Romulans wore Green....but the yellow, i couldn't catch...it seemed like some unknown alien races....is there a web page which explains the colors?

Blue = UFP, but not Vulcan
Red = Klingon
Yellow = Vulcans and Romulans (look for Sarek sitting next to Nanclus)
Others = Green.

Unless it's my colour blindness not letting me see the Romulan sash as green? In any case, Vulcan weren't wearing blue.

Why do they shoot her immediately instead of waiting for her change form and THEN shoot Kirk?

Because when this scene appears in the trailer, it looks like Kirk gets phasered to death!

Oh and Christian Slater as the mildly disrespectful Excelsior bridge officer. :thumbsup:

His lines were originally written as the same Communications Officer character as Janice Rand, but when Christian's casting director mother got him his cameo, Grace Lee Whitney had to forfeit her lines.

So the lines coming from Sulu's ol' friend, Janice, would have a different tone.
 
^^^A little disappointing we didn't get more of Rand. But then again her acting in the Voyager episode Flashback was nothing stellar, so it's not a huge loss.
 
^^^A little disappointing we didn't get more of Rand.

Her participation in ST VI was actually the result of a pre-ST VI publicity stunt. The publicist held an audience poll at a big ST convention. The finalists were Janice Rand and Kevin Riley - and Janice won!

But then again her acting in the Voyager episode Flashback was nothing stellar, so it's not a huge loss.

Yeah, it was certainly a bit off. I imagined George Takei whispering in her ear, "This is the quasi pilot for a 'Captain Sulu' series. Give it everything you've got."

Oh the pressure! :devil:
 
His own performance was a bit lacking, too, imo.

Maybe they needed stronger direction, or more takes. Director, David Livingston, did some wonderful ST episodes.

I feel they were rushed for time. Some errors crept in re events/dates from ST VI that also could have been fixed with tweaking.
 
I just took it as is: proof that Takei and Whitney couldn't have carried the series George was insisting on.

As far as the errors, the biggest has to be Dmitri Valtane who is killed in the VOY episode but can clearly be seen among the bridge crowd at the end of TUC.
 
I just took it as is: proof that Takei and Whitney couldn't have carried the series George was insisting on.

It also depends on other people that would have been cast in the series. Who knows, they could have had a very good supporting cast that would have made it a strong series, it is entirely plausible.

As far as the errors, the biggest has to be Dmitri Valtane who is killed in the VOY episode but can clearly be seen among the bridge crowd at the end of TUC.

I have heard that explained that TuVok's memory wasn't perfect.
 
I think Undiscovered Country was the second Trek movie I saw. It's been my favorite since then.
 
I just took it as is: proof that Takei and Whitney couldn't have carried the series George was insisting on.

It also depends on other people that would have been cast in the series. Who knows, they could have had a very good supporting cast that would have made it a strong series, it is entirely plausible.

As far as the errors, the biggest has to be Dmitri Valtane who is killed in the VOY episode but can clearly be seen among the bridge crowd at the end of TUC.

I have heard that explained that TuVok's memory wasn't perfect.

It's a rather important plot point that he dies though! The episode really doesn't make much sense without it...

or with it for that matter...
 
Blue = UFP, but not Vulcan
Red = Klingon
Yellow = Vulcans and Romulans (look for Sarek sitting next to Nanclus)
Others = Green.

Unless it's my colour blindness not letting me see the Romulan sash as green? In any case, Vulcan weren't wearing blue.

The sash Nanclus is wearing is a sort of olive drab; it isn't the same bright green shade you see on some of the other delegates. Nanclus' sash also seems to be an integral part of his costume, whereas the sashes the other groups are wearing appear to be additions draped over their clothes or uniforms.

I actually think he's sitting in the Vulcan section, probably as a guest of Sarek. The the costumes on the yellow-sashed extras behind the two ambassadors have the sort of decorative markings we've seen on Vulcan costumes in the prior movies. Also, there's a large IDIC on the wall behind the group, and the main disc of the symbol is the same yellow as the Vulcans' sashes. Given that we don't seem to see anyone else with Nanclus' adornment, he may be the only Romulan there of any real rank.
 
I actually used it as a clue for a TOS-era Section 31 story myself, but I even had two characters posit TNG-esque technobabbly explanations. I even had a character suggested it was an evil twin brother.
 
I'm watching this movie and there's a question I have to ask. When Kirk and Martia are fighting on Rura Penthe after Marta has taken Kirk's form, why doesn't Martia change form or revert to her original form when they are confronted by the group of Klingons? Why do they shoot her immediately instead of waiting for her change form and THEN shoot Kirk?

Because they likely never planned to let her go with a full pardon at all. Killing her was probably always the plan once she did her job. If they accidentally killed Kirk, who cares? That's what they intended anyway, before the warden got caught monologuing.

Which is one of my favorite parts of the movie, as silly as it may be. Having Kirk about to hear the entire plan thanks to the Warden and then getting beamed up right as he's about to name Chang is just hilarious to me.
:guffaw: Me too. "AW.. DAAAAAAMN!" And then he's on the ship and, "Dammit, dammit, dammit to hell, SON OF A!!! Couldn't you have given us three seconds?"
Chekov says, "You vant to go back?" McCoy... "Definitely not!" Kirk... "It was cold!"
 
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