The Undiscovered Country

[NIUPonyBoy]

Rewatching I am seeing things that I hadn't really noticed before that I just get a kick out of now...

The Federation President is Red Foreman just with wicked awesome hair.

Odo is Colonel West.

Why is the Romulan Ambassador sitting in on a presumed classified proposed operation to retrieve Kirk and McCoy by an 'illegal' treaty violating military action?

All with-in one scene.

Still one of my favorite's of the ST movies.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

I've watched that movie so many times, and i still cannot figure out if the Federation President is blind. What do you think?

 

[Pemmer Harge]

I love TUC. One thing I particularly like is the Klingon leaders - they seem much more intelligent and three dimensional than the aggressive, honour before reason Klingons we normally see in post 1979 Trek, and they have a unique kind of look as well, like a half-way stage between old and new Klingons.

 

[NIUPonyBoy]

I've watched that movie so many times, and i still cannot figure out if the Federation President is blind. What do you think?

Possible, it's crossed my mind but you never "see" anything to confirm it.

Get it?

Ok.

 

[Grant]

He is supposed to be blind from the script, but they didn't make a point of mentioning it onscreen---not even in any deleted lines.
It's just thrown in. ironically the little glasses he wears is some kind of prothetic---like a primitive version of geordi's visor.

 

[NIUPonyBoy]

Yet they look like 1800's museum curator specs.

Oh and Christian Slater as the mildly disrespectful Excelsior bridge officer. :thumbsup:

 

[Grant]

Yet they look like 1800's museum curator specs.

Oh and Christian Slater as the mildly disrespectful Excelsior bridge officer. :thumbsup:

True they look archaic, but i guess they felt they had to something totally different than the 'high-tech' Geordi look.

 

[Chrisisall]

Why is the Romulan Ambassador sitting in on a presumed classified proposed operation to retrieve Kirk and McCoy by an 'illegal' treaty violating military action?

It was Romulan ale-time the night before shooting that scene, clearly.

 

[Grant]

Why is the Romulan Ambassador sitting in on a presumed classified proposed operation to retrieve Kirk and McCoy by an 'illegal' treaty violating military action?

It was Romulan ale-time the night before shooting that scene, clearly.

Meyer likes throwing in things that go against the grain of continutiy and so forth---just to provoke discussion.

It has provoked specualtion that it a 'detente' period between the Fed and the roms and that the Roms betrayed that trust by trying to provoke a war.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

He is supposed to be blind from the script, but they didn't make a point of mentioning it onscreen---not even in any deleted lines.
It's just thrown in. ironically the little glasses he wears is some kind of prothetic---like a primitive version of geordi's visor.

OMG! THANK YOU! At times he appears to be, while at other times, not. At the end, after Kirk throws himself onto him, and he then gets up (the Prez), he appears to have to 'feel' himself back into place. I always suspected, but never knew for sure. OMG! thank you!

 

[Chrisisall]

It has provoked specualtion that it a 'detente' period between the Fed and the roms and that the Roms betrayed that trust by trying to provoke a war.

Occam's Razor has me thinkin' hangover.

 

[Hober Mallow]

I understand originally in the script at the end of Kirk's trial, when the president throws down his napkin, he says, "Dumbass!"

 

[Therin of Andor]

Why is the Romulan Ambassador sitting in on a presumed classified proposed operation to retrieve Kirk and McCoy by an 'illegal' treaty violating military action?

If you notice the sashes during Khitomer, the Klingons wear red, Federation races wear blue, independent world wear green, and yet all Vulcans and Romulans wear yellow - and Sarek is sitting right next to Nanclus. (Normally, Vulcan would have blue, like the rest of the UFP?) This seems to suggest that there is some kind of pre-Unification truce happening between Romulus and Vulcan, which obviously dissolved after Nanclus was exposed as a conspirator.

So when "Operation: Retrieve" was being proposed, Nanclus was an ally, not an enemy. And, presumably, was being asked to have Romulus on stand-by in case the Klingons declared war.

OMG! THANK YOU! At times he appears to be, while at other times, not. At the end, after Kirk throws himself onto him, and he then gets up (the Prez), he appears to have to 'feel' himself back into place. I always suspected, but never knew for sure. OMG! thank you!

Read the text commentary track on the DVD-CE edition: the little dark glasses, and the President's blindness are mentioned there by the Okudas.

There's a suggestion that all Efrosians are blinded in certain lighting conditions, but can see colors out of the normal spectrum. It probably started as an in-joke because the Efrosian in ST IV, on the Saratoga, had white-irised contact lenses that actually made it hard for the actor to see, too. ST VI's President has bright blue-irised contact lenses.

 

[trevanian]

Another aspect is that in the script, there are specific references to a munitions guy being present during this Fed meet. That's not addressed in the film, but the guy might actually be in the scene. Does that confuse things even more, that the guy who'd be supplying arms would be in this meeting? Does the Fed need munitions guys? Don't they have their own? or are they selling to the roms, or negotiating that?

 

[Maurice]

Another aspect is that in the script, there are specific references to a munitions guy being present during this Fed meet. That's not addressed in the film, but the guy might actually be in the scene. Does that confuse things even more, that the guy who'd be supplying arms would be in this meeting? Does the Fed need munitions guys? Don't they have their own? or are they selling to the roms, or negotiating that?

Apparently, someone makes phaser powerpacks and photon torpedoes.

 

[ScatmanRescueMe]

The 'munitions man' is the slightly balding guy sitting to the Presidents left when he gets the call from Azetbur. I read about him once. He had won some acting newcomer award and it was supposed to be his 'big break' Poor guy, his part gets cut out.

He is still in the credits, though. Carlos--something---I can't recall.

 

[Too Much Fun]

I'm watching this movie and there's a question I have to ask. When Kirk and Martia are fighting on Rura Penthe after Marta has taken Kirk's form, why doesn't Martia change form or revert to her original form when they are confronted by the group of Klingons? Why do they shoot her immediately instead of waiting for her change form and THEN shoot Kirk?

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I'm watching this movie and there's a question I have to ask. When Kirk and Martia are fighting on Rura Penthe after Marta has taken Kirk's form, why doesn't Martia change form or revert to her original form when they are confronted by the group of Klingons? Why do they shoot her immediately instead of waiting for her change form and THEN shoot Kirk?

Because they likely never planned to let her go with a full pardon at all. Killing her was probably always the plan once she did her job. If they accidentally killed Kirk, who cares? That's what they intended anyway, before the warden got caught monologuing.

 

[Aldo]

I'm watching this movie and there's a question I have to ask. When Kirk and Martia are fighting on Rura Penthe after Marta has taken Kirk's form, why doesn't Martia change form or revert to her original form when they are confronted by the group of Klingons? Why do they shoot her immediately instead of waiting for her change form and THEN shoot Kirk?

Because they likely never planned to let her go with a full pardon at all. Killing her was probably always the plan once she did her job. If they accidentally killed Kirk, who cares? That's what they intended anyway, before the warden got caught monologuing.

Which is one of my favorite parts of the movie, as silly as it may be. Having Kirk about to hear the entire plan thanks to the Warden and then getting beamed up right as he's about to name Chang is just hilarious to me.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Oh yeah, I loved that too. Especially Kirk yelling "SON OF A...!". Great comedic moment with the Bond villain-like monologue interrupted by the beam out.

I just didn't get why Martia was killed. I figured there was some sort of betrayal going on between the co-conspirators (I guess it's the whole "crime doesn't pay"/"you can't trust a rat" idea), but it wasn't really clear why they were turning on her.