The Ultimate New Series.

[blockaderunner]

I hope that you placed at the end of your first post shows that you are kidding. There's nothing in your premise that indicates that it will attract that all important mainstream audience. It's too inside and wouldn't be cost effective to make either as a series or movie. At best, it would make a decent novel. At worst, it reaffirms the perception that Trek fans, what few of us that are left, are this insular, myopic, psuedo-cult that isn't concerned about the franchise being restructured for the next possible generation of fans. I'm not trying to be harsh. Just stating my opinion.

As for any alternatives? I don't have any. I'm just wating to see what Abrams has in store. From what I've read about it so far, it sounds like the film that might, I said might, save Trek for that all important next generation. Let's face it. Trek fans are as much on the endangered list as the TOS cast.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I see a lot of people didn't even bother to read it, I wish I hadn't either now, time I'll never have back.

That was a little harsh wasn't it?

 

[tenmei]

Well, I tried to read the outline - but with each 'Meanwhile' the reading became a bit more tiresome. How about pulling everything together from your various ideas into one post instead of having people search through various threads - and if some of this stuff happens in different seasons, then that certainly didn't come across because of all the 'meanwhile' moments.

Anyway - it's certainly not the sort of Trek that I'd be wanting to see in a few years, I have my own ideas about what I want to see.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

I have my own ideas about what I want to see.

Then by God tell us them!

 

[tenmei]

I've been watching an Australian drama called "Sea Patrol" and think that the next Trek series could take a few tips from that series - a much smaller ship with a much smaller crew.


It is some time in the future after Star Trek: Nemesis and the Romulan Empire has crumbled into numerous independant, and often corrupt, systems and coalitions which harbor mixed feelings to both the Former Romulan Empire and the Federation.

Ferenginar has undergone a total cultural revolution with females in power and males sidelined whilst the Klingon Empire flirts with isolationism as they continue to lick their wounds after the Dominion War.

Into this altered universe we send our ship - the Magellan. No bigger than the Defiant, with top of the line warp engines but vastly underweaponed. Throw the Magellan into a firefight and its best course of option's to make a run for it -

This is a border patrol vessel - designed to patrol the borders of the United Federation of Planets and render aid and support to its member worlds.

In command is a female, she's Human, Arabic, a gentle soul and a great diplomat but she's not a fighter - which often leads her to conflict with her male XO (species unimportant) who is a security and tactical specialist, who is also the latest in a Starfleet family who doesn't want to be on the ship and considers his assignment there a punishment.

You also have the ships Science Officer, a brilliant but inexperienced Bajoran Lieutenant Jg, fresh from the Academy. He's male, struggling to juggle his religion with his emerging sexuality - and the fact he's the only scientist on the ship means he's also the ships medic, he's in a very stressful position.

Chief Engineer would be female, Vulcan. The eldest person on the ship, she's chosen to reject the teachings of Surak in the wake of the Fall of the Romulan Empire and follows a new path which believes in embracing emotions. In earlier centuries, she'd be a V'Tosh K'Tur, in current times, she's a pioneer.

Rounding out the main characters would be the ships Helm Officer, a female - possibly Orion.

 

[Kemaiku]

Interesting take on the Romulans, almost an inverse of Russian territorial history, going from a larger single empire to smaller independent principalities.

If the Romulans truly are an empire maybe we could free up screen time to explore various races they enslaved or controlled within their territory now gaining a certain amount of freedom. Some border territories now opening relations with the Federation.

Core territories remaining loyal to Romulan ideals, some attempting to restore the Empire, the Unification movement gaining popularity and not having to hide themsevles in the outer territories.

The Romulan fleet in disarray, battle groups and misc. ships split up between different regions.

Practically a season worth there alone.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Wouldn't attract a fresh audience and would soon become boreing. Having the ship run away at the first sign of a fire fight would make poor watching and what use is a border patrol vessel that has to run away or get blown apart? also how many storylines can you possibly write for a ship stuck patrolling up and down the Federation border?
Personally i'm sick of seeing the Bajorans, we had enough of them in DS9. As for a Vulcan rejecting the teachings of Surak! that's just purposterous.

 

[Kemaiku]

Wouldn't attract a fresh audience and would soon become boreing. Having the ship run away at the first sign of a fire fight would make poor watching and what use is a border patrol vessel that has to run away or get blown apart? also how many storylines can you possibly write for a ship stuck patrolling up and down the Federation border?
Personally i'm sick of seeing the Bajorans, we had enough of them in DS9. As for a Vulcan rejecting the teachings of Surak! that's just purposterous.

Its not only going to attract an audience, its far far more likely to do so than you're idea, which is exactly everything you accuse his of being and more.

I see a lot of storytelling potential in his idea but very little in yours, like I mentioned in my last post the Romulan part alone would have a wealth of ideas.

Not to mention the Klingons taking advantage of the situation, the cultural upheavel on Fereginar, the rebuilding efforts on Cardassia, the Bajorans still have a few stories left to tell (entering the Federation) and of course Starfleet itself would be having to deal with many of these situations either diplomatically or militarily.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Its not only going to attract an audience, its far far more likely to do so than you're idea, which is exactly everything you accuse his of being and more.

I see a lot of storytelling potential in his idea but very little in yours, like I mentioned in my last post the Romulan part alone would have a wealth of ideas.

Not to mention the Klingons taking advantage of the situation, the cultural upheavel on Fereginar, the rebuilding efforts on Cardassia, the Bajorans still have a few stories left to tell (entering the Federation) and of course Starfleet itself would be having to deal with many of these situations either diplomatically or militarily.

So there's no stories that could possibly be written about the Romulan Star Empire being conquered and subjugated by offshoot humans? and in my new series we get to see the Cardassians joining the Federation, we also get to see a species from the Gamma Quadrant joning the Federation and the Dominion isn't best pleased about it.
Why are you assuming we dont get to see the Ferengi in my new series? it wouldn't be trek without the comic relief of the ferengi. Stop assuming my series will be wank simply because I havn't mentioned every single thing that we'll get in it, I could spend the next 10 hours giving you a list of everything that will happen in the series and every species we get to see throughout.
As for the Klingons i've already made it clear they join forces with the federation against the Romulans.

Do you seriously believe my idea for a series begins and ends simply with the Borg and offshoot humans? do you seriously believe my ideas dont go further and deeper than that? boy oh boy.

 

[Kemaiku]

Well maybe if you stopped just posting the wank about the Romulans fighting the Federation and the Klingons for no reason, the Borg showing up again with a King for no reason and not assimilating Earth therefor neutering them further, the Dominion being pissed off and threatening people when DS9 went to some lengths in the finale to set up a lasting peace which your series will piss on.

And starting posting ideas about how the smaller races, characters, plot lines and deeper ideas will be handled and maybe it would sound better. Your idea doesn't strike me as having that much potential, and given the remarks everyone else has left here, neither do they. They're just polite enough to leave and ignore it without calling it shite.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Well maybe if you stopped just posting the wank about the Romulans fighting the Federation and the Klingons for no reason

So like I said, you skimmed it all and didn't read it. The Romulans started a fight with the federation and Klingons because they started upgrading their technology, not long after that the offshoot humans obtained the same tech, to the Romulans this was a clear threat and rather than wait for the upgrades to be completed further they acted immediately, it turned out to be their undoing.

, the Borg showing up again with a King for no reason and not assimilating Earth therefor neutering them further

They show up for no reason? what other reason do they need except for assimilating? and to be quite honest I think it makes for a great series to have the Borg assimilating other worlds and leaving the federation alone, it will be interesting to see how the Federation would deal with the threat of the Borg on the Galaxy when they themselves are being left alone. Do you think the Federation would sit back and let the Borg conquer the Galaxy or do you think the Federation would do something about it? in my series we get to see what they do.

, the Dominion being pissed off and threatening people when DS9 went to some lengths in the finale to set up a lasting peace which your series will piss on.

Did I say the Dominion threaten people? and after DS9 if you'd actually watched it properly you'd know that the Dominion only stopped the war because Odo agreed to return home and he agreed to cure the other founders, the peace between the Dominion and Alpha Quadrant is as fragile as it was before the war started.
In my series we also get to see how the female shapeshifter is holding out in prison and whether or not she decides to escape.

You REALLY need to watch the Trek series again because you're quite wrong about a lot of it. I cant believe you thought the Dominion were best of pals with the federation!! and I can't believe you think a series about a patrol ship would be more interesting.

 

[tenmei]

Interesting take on the Romulans ... Practically a season worth there alone.

Exactly what I was thinking with the comparison to the current state of Russia. Magellan would be attached to this area so we'd see a lot of stuff, given the proximity of Romulan space to the Klingons.

Wouldn't attract a fresh audience and would soon become boreing. Having the ship run away at the first sign of a fire fight would make poor watching and what use is a border patrol vessel that has to run away or get blown apart?

See, I think your proposal is impenetrable for a fresh audience given you've put in too much stuff - this is a simple concept, accesible to new viewers. And, more importantly, different to what has come before.

also how many storylines can you possibly write for a ship stuck patrolling up and down the Federation border?

Quite a lot, actually. You can do virtually every story that they could do on the other Trek shows - but the fact that the vessel isn't some uber-ship that has dozens of phaser arrays and torpedo canons would make the writers, and the crew, have to think their way out of situations.

You've also got storylines, that as DS9 proved, can be told with a few good characters - you've got the interplays of the main character that could hold other stories, you've got the other twenty people on the ship to given fun and interesting characters to.

Personally i'm sick of seeing the Bajorans, we had enough of them in DS9. As for a Vulcan rejecting the teachings of Surak! that's just purposterous.

Given the only race we've really seen that has its own religion is the Bajorans, then it made sense to make a character who was coming to terms with his sexuality a member of that race - to give it a parallel to modern day people of Jewish, Catholic, Muslim etc beliefs who are struggling with their sexuality.

And a Vulcan rejecting the teachings of Surak? The V'Tosh K'Tur that I mentioned were seen in ENT as _exactly_ that - people who believed that embracing of emotions was important.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Exactly what I was thinking with the comparison to the current state of Russia. Magellan would be attached to this area so we'd see a lot of stuff, given the proximity of Romulan space to the Klingons.

So you also dont think a conquered/subjugated Romulan Empire by offshoot humans doesn't have story telling potential either?

And a Vulcan rejecting the teachings of Surak? The V'Tosh K'Tur that I mentioned were seen in ENT as _exactly_ that - people who believed that embracing of emotions was important.

But they'd be rejected and cast off Vulcan thus never to be allowed entry into Starfleet.

 

[Kemaiku]

What? both times the Federation took on the Borg they had a fleet standing by and only won by sheer luck because the Enterprise destroyed the Cube with Picards inside knowledge, they cannot go racing around the galaxy saving other races when they can't raise enough military force to stop one Cube coming right at Earth. They may not like it but they haven't much choice but to stand by and watch.

Let me see, you say the Romulans start a war, just because they "upgraded their tech". What tech? what upgrades? the Romulans have been upgrading their technology steadily throughout all the series, and they didn't start something like this. The only exception would be testing the new generation Warbirds at Narendra, the event that destroyed the Enterprise-C, but the idea of taking on both the Klingons and Federation made them back down. After the debacle in Nemesis I doubt the Empire wants to weaken themsevles further by starting a militry campaign against the Alpha Quadrant powers on the assumption that a few new weapons will swing the war in their favour.

And the truce between the Federation and the Dominion may be tenuous, but just having it dissolve completely for the sake of having them go to war again just wastes a good story line from DS9, why not have the Dominion be allys of the Alpha Quadrant? wouldn't that be more interesting and make for better screen time having two old enemies come up with solutions for the Borg problem?

And speaking of the Borg problem, we're supposed to believe that the other races are all in danger, and NOT the Federation, so they all go to war with the Fed's...why? would it not be unnverving to the rest of the races wondering why the Borg are not assimilating Humans, and try to work out that answer, hoping to protect themsevles as well? why would they all be starting wars for very little reason with the larger threat of a new Borg incursion underway?

Seriously it just doesn't make much sense, its all over the place, its too "involved" for a casual audience to get in on, and doesn't sound very cost effective CGI wise.

 

[tenmei]

So you also dont think a conquered/subjugated Romulan Empire by offshoot humans doesn't have story telling potential either?

I think it has potential, but I think your outline comes over as far too convoluted. There's an old maxim from the cinema, from Hitchcock I think, which says (to paraphrase) 'make your audience think but don't confuse them'.

I think your proposal confuses more than it makes them think.

But they'd be rejected and cast off Vulcan thus never to be allowed entry into Starfleet.

Maybe Vulcan society WOULD reject her - but it doesn't mean that she'd be refused entry to Starfleet. Why reject a Vulcan merely because she has a belief system more akin to a Human - that's absolutely preposterous and goes against what we've been led to believe about the Trek universe.

Plus, you've just explained to yourself a new story thread that could be used in the series - exactly how would the womans family and race react to her making such a radical decision about her belief system?!

 

[All Seeing Eye]

What? both times the Federation took on the Borg they had a fleet standing by and only won by sheer luck because the Enterprise destroyed the Cube with Picards inside knowledge, they cannot go racing around the galaxy saving other races when they can't raise enough military force to stop one Cube coming right at Earth. They may not like it but they haven't much choice but to stand by and watch.

The Feds dont go up against the Borg, infact as I said up thread the Offshoot Humans provoke the Borg into a war with the Dominion whilst they themselves developed a weapon capable of penetrating the new Borg armour.

Let me see, you say the Romulans start a war, just because they "upgraded their tech". What tech? what upgrades?

once again you've read absolutely nothing of what I wrote, go back and actually read everything and you'll flipping know what i'm talking about. The Federation and Klingons upgraded their ships with the advanced tech brought back by Voyager, they saw it as the only possibly way to defend against a possible Borg threat since the Borg themselves have upgraded their cubes with the advanced armour and torpedos obtained from when they assimilated future janeway. These upgrades would have made the Romulans completely defenceless and thus they made the only choice left to them and declared war on the Federation and Klingons in order to stop them becoming more powerful. READ THE GOD DAMN THREAD. JEESH!! You're pulling down my ideas and you don't even know half of what i've wrote in the damn thread. If you cant be arsed to read what written then your opinion isn't really worth all that much is it.

And the truce between the Federation and the Dominion may be tenuous, but just having it dissolve completely for the sake of having them go to war again just wastes a good story line from DS9, why not have the Dominion be allys of the Alpha Quadrant? wouldn't that be more interesting and make for better screen time having two old enemies come up with solutions for the Borg problem?

At no point did I say they go to war again, i said the Dominion arn't happy and that all and if you read the thread you'll be made aware that the Dominion asks the Federation for help against the Borg.

And speaking of the Borg problem, we're supposed to believe that the other races are all in danger, and NOT the Federation, so they all go to war with the Fed's...why?

What the hell are you talking about? the other races DONT go to war with the Federation, only the Romulans do and i'm not saying the Borg are completely wiping out the Alpha Quadrant, the Borg dont even play that much of a part until nearer the end of the seasons when they are provoked into attacking the Dominion. The Federation is simply made aware that Borg ships are avoiding Fed ships.

 

[Kemaiku]

As Tenmei and I have said this is all just too convoluted and complex for the creation of a new series, its really not going to gain any wide appeal/audience. Given how divided the fanbase can be about certain series using elements from some of them means even a lot of fans won't be tuning in.

This idea really doesn't work, at least in fanfiction or a book it might, but not a television series.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

ok, so in order to get new viewers we need a boreing series about a border patrol ship that runs away at the first sign of trouble, NOW THAT will capture new viewers attention. Get with the program, people these days are interested in one thing, action and lots of it and you can't get action from a patrol ship based series and we're not just trying to appeal to a new audience we've got to make Trek interesting for the oldschool viewers.
We need:

• Action.

• old species.

• new species.

• exploration of uknown space.

• The Collapse of Empires.

• The rise of new Empires.

• New Tech instead of the same old boreing phasers and quantum Torpedos.

• New chracters who can be related to by people in the audience. No more wishy washy 2 dimensional 24th century characters. We need characters who are more down to Earth, more rough and ready, we need characters like you find in Stargate.

My Series will bring all that and more.

 

[Kemaiku]

Voyager and Enterprise, as well as Nemesis are perfect examples of why you shouldn't aim Trek solely at the fans, its a terrible idea, getting out of the old tired cliches and going for something new is the only way to really reviatlise Trek and achieve and audience that will keep the show on the air.

And no, your series would not provide all of those things.

 

[msbae]

Sorry Fire, that idea is so complex it makes Babylon 5 look simplistic. With some reworking, it can make a good series of novels but, definitely not a TV Series.

And, yes, I can come up with something of my own. It's a full novel I already wrote and made available on my website here:

http://www.msbae.net/ASF.htm

I won't say it's good but, it's quite different.