The Typhon Pact - Can it work in the long run?

[MatthiasRussell]

It occurred to me as I was writing that I had no idea about why the Gorn had joined up, and I guess I'm still not really sure.

I felt the Gorn wanted to join because they felt bullied by Bacco during the Borg invasion and felt they needed strong allies to stand against the UFP.

Besides, with the Pact and UFP being major powers in the quadrant, I'm sure they feel the need to belong to one of these trade and defense pacts.

The problem I foresee is the quadrant looks much like Earth did at the beginning of the 20th century with all these large alliances and defense pacts. I'm still worried a situation has formed that leads to the entire quadrant at war when one nation declares war on another over a relatively minor assassination.

 

[Jaron]

The board needs a feature where, upon trying to submit a post to the TrekLit subforum that contains the word "typhoon", an interstitial with a group photo of our esteemed authors pops up, carrying accusatory miens above a subtitle: "Did you really mean to write 'typhoon'?"

Don't forget the word "cannon". Of course Murphy's Law dictates that this would be implemented right after somebody writes a book where the Tholians attack the Federation with their devastating new typhoon cannon.

 

[JoeZhang]

Janalwa and Gornar? Are those the Gorn and Kinshaya homeworlds?

Gornar is the Gorn homeworld--Tau Lacertae IX, established way back in Worlds of the Federation--but Janalwa is the most populous Kinshaya world, having taken over governance of the Holy Order after the Klingon-Kinshaya conflict that ruined the Kinshaya homeworld.

I thought it was called Gonorrhea?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

It occurred to me as I was writing that I had no idea about why the Gorn had joined up, and I guess I'm still not really sure.

I felt the Gorn wanted to join because they felt bullied by Bacco during the Borg invasion and felt they needed strong allies to stand against the UFP.

Besides, with the Pact and UFP being major powers in the quadrant, I'm sure they feel the need to belong to one of these trade and defense pacts.

This has inspired me to quickly go over what I know about the Gorn, to see if I've truly got a grip on them myself.

The Gorn have always been territorial; indeed one of the few insights we get into them canonically is their extreme territorialism. They defend themselves brutally and with single-minded zeal if they feel their holdings are being encroached upon, but apparently their outlook is indeed mostly defensive. It seems to be rare for the Gorn to expand or invade. After the Cestus incident they spent a hundred years with mostly static borders, according to The Gorn Crisis - "a century of peace and isolation". They were apparently so set upon this policy that the caste that did want to go a-warring had to topple the government to do so.

In Destiny, disputes with the Klingons are mentioned - the Empire holds systems the Gorn believe to be theirs by right. However, if I'm not misremembering, it was a case of the Klingons having taken them from the Gorn rather than the Gorn "playing Tholian" by suddenly deciding their border should now be there when it wasn't before. Invasion and expansion are near-essential to Klingon policy; to the Gorn, far less so. What I'm gathering from this is that Gorn are not typically expansionist, but they have long memories. If something is theirs, it is theirs. Indeed, even the Black Crests framed their warpath in terms of "retaking Cestus".

In Vanguard: Declassified there's evidence of a mostly insular outlook - on the Gorn border worlds, at least in the 23rd century, law applies only to Gorn, and the various alien residents are left to do whatever they like to each other, being considered lesser and beneath notice (presuming, I suppose, they don't get in the way of or, gods forbid, harm any Gorn).

On top of all that, the novels have further established the Gorn as a very old, very conservative culture with traditions going back many millennia. Whereas the Tzenkethi stratify on the basis of testing in youth, the Gorn castes are so long-established and tied to specific bloodlines that they're basically different sub-species by this point.

Putting all this together, I think the Gorn, even more than most species, are motivated by the desire to retain their stability and defend what they have - their territory, their traditions, their boundaries. Not as insular as the Kinshaya perhaps (they at least show up to conferences and such), but very much focused on what they already have (or had), the appeal of their ancient culture, and the need to brush aside or trample anything that threatens to intrude on their boundaries.

We're dealing with a very old race that hasn't made strides into the galaxy the way younger nations like the Federation or the Cardassians have; and no doubt this is the Gorns' choice. They strike me as a people set in their ways - they're a moderate in the Pact, I think, precisely because they're such a conservative people. As I see them, they're motivated by the certainty that, resting as they are in the deep, comfortable trough of millennia of tradition and a social order that's become almost an aspect of biology, they must be onto something good. The outside galaxy is not too important if it doesn't intrude, and if it does, that Gornian single-mindedness comes to the fore and the threat is eliminated. Except in the modern galaxy the Gorn, like everyone else, have been shaken out of their complacency. The egg has nestled in its nest for a long time, but everything was shaken up real good recently, and now they're acutely aware that if the egg is to remain safe they'll need a better nest, and more guards and failsafes in place. The Borg, the Federation trying to push and pull everyone into cooperating - it's sinking in that sticking your head into the sand isn't going to get you anywhere. Like Rom realizing that the Ferengi need to learn to function as part of the galactic community, not just its exploiters, or get left behind as a joke nation, I think the Gorn have realized that the only way to keep their ancient order strong for another half-million years is to be more actively involved in the galaxy, more cooperative.

Not with the Federation, though. The Federation is too much of a threat to their boundaries, I think (by which I mean, I think they think). Whenever I consider the Gorn relationship to the UFP, I think of Ambassador Zogozin's comments in Mere Mortals. After K'mtok responds to the Breen ambassador with a sneering dismissal, Zogozin (evidently fed up with Klingon posturing) makes a pointed remark along the lines of "Why are you even here? Didn't the Federation annex your empire?". Obviously, he's trying to get under K'mtok's skin, but I see no reason to assume that he doesn't genuinely mean what he says; evidently as far as the Gorn are concerned, the Klingons are ruled from Paris. I assume the Gorn don't want to get too close to the UFP, lest they find their half-a-million-year-old hegemonic egg being carried around in some oversized mammal's mouth...and you can't trust such an active, nosy creature with the egg, can you?

 

[Christopher]

The Gorn have always been territorial; indeed one of the few insights we get into them canonically is their extreme territorialism. They defend themselves brutally and with single-minded zeal if they feel their holdings are being encroached upon, but apparently their outlook is indeed mostly defensive. It seems to be rare for the Gorn to expand or invade. After the Cestus incident they spent a hundred years with mostly static borders, according to The Gorn Crisis - "a century of peace and isolation". They were apparently so set upon this policy that the caste that did want to go a-warring had to topple the government to do so.

The TNG novel Requiem paints a similar picture, though it doesn't quite fit with later canon, since it asserts there's been no formal UFP-Gorn contact since "Arena," yet DS9 established that the Gorn had ceded Cestus III at some point. And other tie-in stories do show various UFP-Gorn contacts that were generally peaceful. The first issue of Marvel's Star Trek Unlimited featured a Gorn story called "Dying of the Light" in which Kirk again encountered the Gorn captain from "Arena" (here identified as S'alath), who turned out to be defending a Gorn burial world from a human archaeologist who was defiling it. (Aspects of this story were referenced in Seize the Fire, so it may count as part of the book continuity.) There's also IDW's Alien Spotlight: Gorn, which shows a Gorn party coming to the rescue of a crashed Reliant shuttle with Terrell and Chekov aboard.

What I'm gathering from this is that Gorn are not typically expansionist, but they have long memories. If something is theirs, it is theirs. Indeed, even the Black Crests framed their warpath in terms of "retaking Cestus".

Indeed. I always found it odd that DS9 made Cestus III a Federation world. Why would the Gorn have ceded it? It was theirs by right. And if you count "Dying of the Light," they were the wronged party in the first two UFP-Gorn encounters, so it's not like they'd owe reparations to the UFP. I've been able to rationalize all sorts of odd things about ST in my writing, but I've never been able to think up a good explanation for why the Gorn would've ceded Cestus III.

On top of all that, the novels have further established the Gorn as a very old, very conservative culture with traditions going back many millennia.

That may also build on "Dying of the Light," which implied that the Gorn have been a spacefaring civilization for millions of years, though I'm skeptical of that.

We're dealing with a very old race that hasn't made strides into the galaxy the way younger nations like the Federation or the Cardassians have; and no doubt this is the Gorns' choice.

And yet their reach is apparently great enough that the far frontiers being charted by Titan are within range of their territory. Which implies their space is extensive, but mostly extends away from the Federation.

Not with the Federation, though. The Federation is too much of a threat to their boundaries, I think (by which I mean, I think they think).

I think "threat" is overstating things, given that UFP-Gorn relations have been nonhostile since "Arena." After more than a century, it must be clear that the Federation has no designs on their territory; a Starfleet crew even helped save the legitimate government from revolutionaries in The Gorn Crisis. If they did perceive a threat to their boundaries, it wouldn't be their literal territorial boundaries, but their political and cultural independence.

Maybe the reason they aligned with the Pact instead of the UFP is because the other members of the Pact were all historically fairly isolationist themselves (at least intermittently so, in the Romulans' case) and would be satisfied with a looser alliance than the Federation, so that a member of the Pact could rely on the other worlds for support when needed but would otherwise be left pretty much alone (or so they thought -- and the Tzenkethi no doubt hope they continue to think that).

 

[rfmcdpei]

That may also build on "Dying of the Light," which implied that the Gorn have been a spacefaring civilization for millions of years, though I'm skeptical of that.

Seize the Fire suggested that not only did different Gorn subspecies evolve on different specific worlds, but that--can't find my copy, please correct me if I'm wrong--that some species were suspected to have evolved on different specific worlds, i.e. the Gorn presence on some worlds is so ancient that records are lacking.

Gorn history may be comparable, in its multi-millennial continuity, to Bajoran history; it may far surpass it.

We're dealing with a very old race that hasn't made strides into the galaxy the way younger nations like the Federation or the Cardassians have; and no doubt this is the Gorns' choice.

And yet their reach is apparently great enough that the far frontiers being charted by Titan are within range of their territory. Which implies their space is extensive, but mostly extends away from the Federation.[/QUOTE]

If Gorn civilization is old enough that speciation has begun on multiple different planets, unless the Gorn somehow have technologies capable of altering the trajectories of stars orbiting about the galactic centre then stellar drift has scattered the Gorn worlds around space. I blogged last year about how Alpha Centauri--in the Trek setting Earth's first extrasolar colony system, and the nearest star system to Sol's in reality--will vanish from visibility in 100000 AD a hundred light-years away in the direction of Telescopium.

 

[DEWLine]

You're suggesting that the Gorn got by like the Bajorans did in their own pre-FTL days? Relativistic ships, solar sail-ships that got caught like Bajoran and Cardassian vessels did by subspace phenomenae, and so forth?

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Not with the Federation, though. The Federation is too much of a threat to their boundaries, I think (by which I mean, I think they think).

I think "threat" is overstating things, given that UFP-Gorn relations have been nonhostile since "Arena." After more than a century, it must be clear that the Federation has no designs on their territory; a Starfleet crew even helped save the legitimate government from revolutionaries in The Gorn Crisis. If they did perceive a threat to their boundaries, it wouldn't be their literal territorial boundaries, but their political and cultural independence.

Yes, you're right; I indeed meant the latter; I perhaps should have been more careful with the language.

I think I had Garak's "reptilian hindbrain" description in mind as I wrote that, imaging in the Gorn something similar to what Garak claims about Cardassians. The UFP is perhaps too eager to be friendly for the sake of being friendly, which maybe sets the Gorn on edge?

 

[Christopher]

And yet their reach is apparently great enough that the far frontiers being charted by Titan are within range of their territory. Which implies their space is extensive, but mostly extends away from the Federation.

If Gorn civilization is old enough that speciation has begun on multiple different planets, unless the Gorn somehow have technologies capable of altering the trajectories of stars orbiting about the galactic centre then stellar drift has scattered the Gorn worlds around space.

I find that a rather extravagant speculation, and I'd prefer more than a single piece of questionable evidence from a comic-book story to base it on. (Even if the archaeologist in that story was correct that the devices on the burial world were that ancient, it could be that they were left over by some prior civilization and the Gorn just adopted them for their own use.) If the Gorn were really that ancient, it's hard to believe they wouldn't be far more advanced than the Federation or its other neighbors. Even if they were conservative by nature and slow to progress, they would've encountered or been visited by enough advanced civilizations in that span of time that they would've picked up a lot of really impressive technology -- or else would've been overrun by some more advanced empire like the Tkon or something.

(And I thought the genetic differences in the Gorn castes were the result of engineering, not simply generational drift.)

 

[rfmcdpei]

You're suggesting that the Gorn got by like the Bajorans did in their own pre-FTL days? Relativistic ships, solar sail-ships that got caught like Bajoran and Cardassian vessels did by subspace phenomenae, and so forth?

Relativistic vehicles and non-warp FTL propulsion methodologies do seem to be common developments among pre-warp civilizations. I was thinking more in terms of Gorn civilization matching Bajoran in the depth of its continuous history.

And yet their reach is apparently great enough that the far frontiers being charted by Titan are within range of their territory. Which implies their space is extensive, but mostly extends away from the Federation.

If Gorn civilization is old enough that speciation has begun on multiple different planets, unless the Gorn somehow have technologies capable of altering the trajectories of stars orbiting about the galactic centre then stellar drift has scattered the Gorn worlds around space.

I find that a rather extravagant speculation, and I'd prefer more than a single piece of questionable evidence from a comic-book story to base it on.

I was unaware of the comic-book story--I was thinking of Seize the Fire. That book opens with a Gorn scientist talking to a soldier-caste Gorn on the soldier-caste crecheworld, saying that even on the world where the Gorn were suspected to have evolved, the soldier caste is no longer viable, that soldier caste eggs can develop to maturity only on this particular planet.

If the Gorn were really that ancient, it's hard to believe they wouldn't be far more advanced than the Federation or its other neighbors.

The Bajorans have a history as a united civilization going back twenty-five thousand years, but before the Occupation Bajoran technology was significantly below Federation and Cardassian standards.

Even if they were conservative by nature and slow to progress, they would've encountered or been visited by enough advanced civilizations in that span of time that they would've picked up a lot of really impressive technology -- or else would've been overrun by some more advanced empire like the Tkon or something.

(And I thought the genetic differences in the Gorn castes were the result of engineering, not simply generational drift.)

I'm agnostic about this issue myself. If the Gorn civilization really is as ancient as Seize the Fire seems to hint, then even if the Gorn are not expansionist many Gorn worlds would have been scattered far and wide.

 

[R. Star]

The Typhoon Pact is basically an anti-Federaton alliance. It having become so powerful that all the other local governments feel they have to band together to compete against it.

No, the Typhon Pact is basically a pro-Typhon Pact alliance. Its first priority is cooperation for the well-being of its own members. Being strong enough to counter Federation dominance is part of that, and there are factions within the Pact that think that more aggressively undermining the UFP is necessary for their own security. But ultimately, as with any real nation, their first priority is their own best interests, and they surely have plenty of domestic and foreign matters of concern that aren't about the Federation at all. Indeed, that's the whole point -- to get to a position where their lives aren't dominated by the Federation any longer.

And it's Typhon, after the Typhon Expanse where the actual pact was signed, which is named in turn for the monster Typhon from Greek mythology. It rhymes with "python" or "icon." It has nothing to do with typhoons, which are tropical cyclones in the northwestern Pacific.

Sure the Klingons, Cardassia and Ferenginar are allied with the Federation, but that doesn't mean much. The Klingons got grinded under during the Borg invasion, the Ferengi were never really militant and the Cardassians, while rearming definitely, are still probably a second rate power.

First off, the percentage of Klingon territory that was devastated by the Borg is smaller than the percentage of UFP territory that was. Second, since when has military strength been the only significant factor in a nation's power? Economic strength is vital too. A large part of the reason the Pact was formed was because its members, too, were damaged by the Borg invasion (several of them actually participated with the Federation in defending against the Borg, though their resentment at being coerced into doing so by President Bacco was part of what convinced them to form their own bloc). All these nations are trying to rebuild, to consolidate their strength. That requires economic and political strength, not just weapons and armies. Building guns doesn't feed your population or restore devastated planetary ecosystems.

Like in that situation, if the Federation was somehow removed as the single great power in the quadrant, you'd see a falling out among bedfellows.

Or maybe not, since, again, they do not exist with the exclusive goal of being "anti-Federation." They formed the Pact -- and remember, this is Word of God from Keith DeCandido, who co-created them -- because they were inspired by the Federation's example, because they realized that cooperation with other nations helped advance their own interests, their own prosperity and strength. Take the Federation away and it becomes easier for the Pact to pursue the goals it was actually founded to pursue. Maybe the Tholians would drop out at that point, since they are basically using the Pact as simply a means of hurting the UFP, but the other nations have their own reasons for being part of it.

I have to disagree. Thte Typhon Pact never would have existed if the Federation and her allies weren't the dominating power in the Quadrant. Yes, economic strength is certainly part of it, that's what makes Ferenginar a power to reckon with after all, and by strengthening their allies, they are strengthening themselves.

If you look at all their differening ideologies however, and the vast majority of it's member states thinking they are the superior race, without the common threat of the Federation, they would be turning on each other and quite quickly.

They may all want to be part of a Federation equivilent, but they want the role of the humans. More accurately maybe the Founders, since the Dominion was the "anti-Federation" interplanetary alliance with one species dominating the rest.

 

[Christopher]

I have to disagree. Thte Typhon Pact never would have existed if the Federation and her allies weren't the dominating power in the Quadrant.

Yes, but there are two sides to that coin. On the one hand, they wouldn't have formed the Pact if they hadn't felt threatened by the Federation's power and wanted to form a strong enough bloc to balance it, but on the other hand, they wouldn't have formed the Pact if they hadn't been inspired by the Federation's example, and by the great success and power that the cooperation of its member worlds has achieved. So the Federation is both a positive and a negative inspiration for them at the same time. That's what's interesting about the idea, the conflicting forces at play, and it's what's grievously overlooked by those readers who insist on reducing it to a simplistic "good Federation vs. evil Pact" formula.

If you look at all their differening ideologies however, and the vast majority of it's member states thinking they are the superior race, without the common threat of the Federation, they would be turning on each other and quite quickly.

Would they? Is there any known history of these species fighting one another, aside from the Breen and Romulans being on opposite sides in the Dominion War? Mostly they've left each other alone. The majority of the Pact members have historically had policies of isolationism and consolidation of their existing territory rather than expansion and conquest. The reason they formed the Pact was because the Borg Invasion showed them that their isolation made them vulnerable and they needed allies. It wasn't the Federation's existence that made the Pact happen, because the Federation has been around for a couple of centuries without provoking these governments to give up their isolation. True, Bacco bullying them to contribute to the fleet against the Borg underlined how vulnerable they were to political domination on their own, but the invasion itself was the thing that really drove home their vulnerability. It was the threat of annihilation, far more than the threat of being politically pressured by a government known for its non-belligerency, that scared these nations enough to convince them to abandon their deep-seated isolationism.

They may all want to be part of a Federation equivilent, but they want the role of the humans. More accurately maybe the Founders, since the Dominion was the "anti-Federation" interplanetary alliance with one species dominating the rest.

I don't think they want the Pact to be that centralized. They want allies to help them defend their own territories and peoples, but they also want to maintain their independence from outside meddling. So it's bound to be a looser alliance than the UFP and far looser than the Dominion.

Look at the Tzenkethi's actions in Rough Beasts of Empire. They're certainly trying to control what happens in other Pact member states, but their goal in doing so is not to rule over those states, but simply to get them into whatever status best serves the Tzenkethi's interests in their own security and stability.

 

[Sjaddix]

Well I think it gets reduced to Good vs Evil because if things do breakout into a shooting war then we all expect the Federation to win any war.

Although other factors like the Breen assault on the Sol System don't help very much.

 

[DEWLine]

Seems like the Pact overall is in a bit of a "love-hate relationship" place re: the UFP, then.

 

[Christopher]

Well I think it gets reduced to Good vs Evil because if things do breakout into a shooting war then we all expect the Federation to win any war.

But what does winning or losing have to do with good and evil? What does war in general have to do with it? In real life, war is rarely about clean-cut heroes and villains; it's about different nations both trying to do what they believe is right for the well-being of their people, frequently misunderstanding the intentions of their opponents, and committing mutual atrocities and moral compromises in the "heat of battle." History is full of wars where both sides were in the wrong, or where neither side wanted to start it but falsely assumed the other had aggressive designs. (In fact, the assumption that the other nation is "evil" rather than having motives much the same as one's own is what leads to many wars that could've been averted with a little more diplomacy and understanding.) Even in the most "moral" of wars, WWII, the "good guys" committed atrocities like imprisoning Japanese-Americans in concentration camps and launching massive conventional and nuclear attacks against civilian populations. There is no such thing as a war where either side remains entirely good.

True, plenty of fictional wars are simplistically divided between pure good and pure evil, especially in child-oriented franchises like Star Wars or Transformers. But Star Trek had its origins in the Vietnam era and thus has rarely projected such a simplistic fantasy of warfare. It's frequently shown sympathy for the "enemy" -- the Gorn were just defending themselves, the Klingons needed resources to feed their people, the Romulans were a once-honorable breed who'd lost their way, etc. -- or shown how the mentality of war can corrupt even the noble Federation, as in Cartwright and Valeris's conspiracy against peace or Section 31's attempt at genocide during the Dominion War. Even in such a seemingly clear-cut conflict as the struggle against the Borg, there's been moral complexity, for the Borg's soldiers are themselves slaves and victims in need of rescue, not simplistically evil fiends who can be slaughtered without qualms. War in Star Trek is not, never has been, a simple good/evil duality. So why would anyone who's at all familiar with Star Trek expect that any war story within the franchise would take that approach? I don't understand where that notion comes from.

 

[Sjaddix]

I like the complexity but it should come as no surprise that several posters cast the Federation and Humans as the heroes. We indentify with the Federation because they are the main faction we follow through out the stories. tv shows and films so to most readers they will pretty much always be the heroes as long as both sides have a point. Now if they go full on evil empire then that would change.

 

[Christopher]

I like the complexity but it should come as no surprise that several posters cast the Federation and Humans as the heroes.

Yeah, but the point is, that doesn't mean their opponents are simplistic villains. That's not how Star Trek does things, and I don't understand people who expect it to. I think they're confusing it with that other Star ____ franchise that came along about a decade later. (Heck, even Star Wars had some nuance in its villains, at least Anakin/Vader.)

 

[Edit_XYZ]

I like the complexity but it should come as no surprise that several posters cast the Federation and Humans as the heroes.

Yeah, but the point is, that doesn't mean their opponents are simplistic villains. That's not how Star Trek does things, and I don't understand people who expect it to. I think they're confusing it with that other Star ____ franchise that came along about a decade later. (Heck, even Star Wars had some nuance in its villains, at least Anakin/Vader.)

Star Trek most certainly DID simplistic villains on many occasions/episodes: klingons, romulans, borg, etc.
Simplisic not in the sense of giving these villains simplistic/boring shticks, but in making their motivations simplistic: we're superior/conquerors/etc; let's destroy the evil (evil because we say so) federation.

Other times, star trek tried to give the appearance of giving its villains more nuanced motivations and failed - such as with the gorn in 'Arena', etc.

 

[RPJOB]

Would they? Is there any known history of these species fighting one another, aside from the Breen and Romulans being on opposite sides in the Dominion War?

Let's not forget that it was only because the Federation (with some help from Garak) assassinated a Romulan official that tthe Romulans weren't allied with the Dominion. If Sisko and Garak hadn't done what they did they Breen and Romulans could have been allies much earlier than the Typhon Pact.

It makes me wonder if the destruction of Praxis was actually a Federation job meant to cripple the Klingons. And it didn't have to be the ever blamed Section 31 either. Sisko and Grark weren't S-31 operatives. The Federation isn't as lilly white as many people seem to think it is.