The Two Doctors!!

[Bones2]

Bones, you know I love ya in a strictly platonic, online forum buddy kinda way but we will never agree about the Ninth Doctor.

It's alright. Not many people love McGann as much as I do.

Very Doctorish. Following that, I suppose he nipped down the dog track for a bet and a punch up, then burst into drunken tears about how he loves Rose and threatening to cut anyone who mentioned it again.

Actually I rather enjoyed the 2 doctors.. Colin Baker actually shines in that one, and takes his crap jacket off..

That coat is a masterpiece. Philistine.

On the flip side:

Don't you just hate it when militant vegans just have to get all bent out of shape over a little meat eating..

Humans are by evolution part herbivore, part carnivore.. hence the term.. Omnivore!

sheesh!

I'm sorry, I am just not big on others who want to make you do as they do..

If you want to eat nothing but veg, go ahead.. but to complain that the doc shouldn't enjoy a great piece of steak, or a hotdog.. that's just wrong..I mean how cruel would it be to deprive the good ole doc from eating a nice Philly sub.. or a succulent top sirloin kabob with shrimp and red potatoes on a grill..Or for that matter a peperoni pizza..Turkey at the Tyler house Xmas event! etc..etc..

For God sakes let the man eat! he hasn't had a decent meal or weight since 6! LMAO

Also, militant vegans? Get your terms right.

I meant that in the sincerist way possible.. it's a statement akin to militant eco freak, and militant activist, or militant blogger, or militant feminist.. basically someone who overly complains about a subject to try to force others to par take..

Yes, bloody people determined to live more healthy, ethical lives and reduce suffering rather than turn a blind eye so long as it tastes nice.

6th Doctor wasnt too bad, kind of liked the guy and shocked the guy at the end actually died. That would never happen today on Doctor Who.

It's a massive sigh of relief when Shockeye finally dies when I watch it. Compare that with the Fifth Doctor refusing to kill Davros in Resurrection of the Daleks. Another reason why the Sixth Doctor is a million times better.

 

[starsuperion]

I meant that in the sincerist way possible.. it's a statement akin to militant eco freak, and militant activist, or militant blogger, or militant feminist.. basically someone who overly complains about a subject to try to force others to par take..

Yes, bloody people determined to live more healthy, ethical lives and reduce suffering rather than turn a blind eye so long as it tastes nice...

Sorry Bones, my eyes are wide open as I take a succulent bite of a nice choice steak, or meat ball.. mmmm..
THERE IS A CIRCLE OF LIFE.. AND I SERIOUSLY DOUBT AN ANIMAL WOULD THINK TWICE ABOUT EATING YOUR DEAD CARCASS OFF THE ROAD IF HIT BY A CAR..

what seperates us Humans is that in addition to the roasted meat of the animal we kill, we add a bit of veggies for flavor, and cook the meat. mmmmmmm...

but I do not condone canibalism... blech!!

besides, my favourite dish though is fish.. mmmm batter dipped, and fried, or tuna steaks and shrimp.. now what could be more natural then that.

"so jucy sweeeeeT!" mmmm.. yummmy.. "brings it to us raw, and wigglin!"

6th Doctor wasnt too bad, kind of liked the guy and shocked the guy at the end actually died. That would never happen today on Doctor Who.

It's a massive sigh of relief when Shockeye finally dies when I watch it. Compare that with the Fifth Doctor refusing to kill Davros in Resurrection of the Daleks. Another reason why the Sixth Doctor is a million times better.

I agree... I wanted shockeye to die..

 

[Bones2]

I meant that in the sincerist way possible.. it's a statement akin to militant eco freak, and militant activist, or militant blogger, or militant feminist.. basically someone who overly complains about a subject to try to force others to par take..

Yes, bloody people determined to live more healthy, ethical lives and reduce suffering rather than turn a blind eye so long as it tastes nice...

Sorry Bones, my eyes are wide open as I take a succulent bite of a nice choice steak, or meat ball.. mmmm..
THERE IS A CIRCLE OF LIFE.. AND I SERIOUSLY DOUBT AN ANIMAL WOULD THINK TWICE ABOUT EATING YOUR DEAD CARCASS OFF THE ROAD IF HIT BY A CAR..

what seperates us Humans is that in addition to the roasted meat of the animal we kill, we add a bit of veggies for flavor, and cook the meat. mmmmmmm...

but I do not condone canibalism... blech!!

besides, my favourite dish though is fish.. mmmm batter dipped, and fried, or tuna steaks and shrimp.. now what could be more natural then that.

"so jucy sweeeeeT!" mmmm.. yummmy.. "brings it to us raw, and wigglin!"

Well, you're clearly such an erudite intellectual that no one could fail to be convinced by your expertly crafted arguments.

How old are you again?

 

[Starkers]

It's a massive sigh of relief when Shockeye finally dies when I watch it. Compare that with the Fifth Doctor refusing to kill Davros in Resurrection of the Daleks. Another reason why the Sixth Doctor is a million times better.

And herein lies the problem. Because on the whole the Doctor should always hesitate, should always treat killing as the last concievable resort.

And in part that's the problem with the Colin era (which isn't his fault) in that death was suddenly not only blase but also somewhat nasty. Death has always featured heavily in Who, but the killing of Oscar is pointless, and Cheseny licking blood off the floor? See also what happens to Lytton, or the guards who fall into acid in Varos (and the Doctor doesn't seem perterbed at their horrible fate.)

 

[Bones2]

Yeah, a man getting stabbed to death and it being played for laughs is the worst part of it. Shockeye had it coming though, he was a nasty piece.

I'd disagree about the other criticisms of violence in Colin's era. It's just The Two Doctors that I think goes a bit far. And let's not forget, it was written by Robert Holmes, widely considered to be the best classic Who writer. The idea that as soon as Davo left it all went pear-shaped is ridiculous. Would you defend Resurrection of the Daleks, which is a pretty poor story but with lots of violence, but condemn Vengeance on Varos merely because the former has your favourite Doctor in it? Or is this just because you prefer the idea of the Doctor not killing anyone even if it's someone as evil as Davros? Besides, he didn't kill Lytton, and he didn't actually push the guards in the acid. The only example I can think of of the Sixth Doctor being unnecessarily violent is strangling Peri, and not only was he suffering regeneration trauma, but he also had great remorse for it.

 

[Bacl]

I have always felt this was one of the best episodes, and a VERY underrated one. The plot is actually quite thoughtful, filled with underlying subtexts and even some nice character moments. The writer was apparently a vegetarian, and wanted to promote his philosophy about the cruelty of butchering animals for food. While we might not all agree with this philosophy (I myself am quite the carnivore) I do think that science fiction at its core is about exploring new ideas, new ways of looking at things. Doctor Who sometimes steers too heavily towards Science Fantasy, and this episode really had a nice social Science Fiction heart.

Also, unlike a lot of Old Who, I feel this series is watchable all the way through, and does not start to unravel and fall apart towards the end (I'll never forget how my wife and I started Paradise Towers, thought it was one of the most brilliant things ever, and then slowly it began to get sloppy until it ended in the most ridiculous manner and ruined our overall experience).

On a minor note, I really like the 6th Doctor's updated outfit when they get to Spain. The vest is actually rather snazzy, and this is the only instance for me where the clashing colors of the 6th don't offend the eye. He looks rather eccentric and artistic in those vest-shots, and the outfit fits the Spanish landscape brilliantly.

Heck, they even attempt to explain why the Sixth Doctor doesn't remember this adventure (SPOILERS: They inject the 2nd Doctor with anesthetic drugs, and the 2nd says those drugs will effect his memory). Kudos to them for starting to think 4 dimensionally for a change!

I'd give this episode an A+. One of my absolute favorites.

 

[arch101]

The best thing about this ep is that it proposes the idea that the Docs can cross paths with each other much more routinely than the "big event" anniversary stories. I had been hoping that it would open the way for more crossovers, like maybe a once a season show with a different past Doc. Sadly, however, this remains the only one.

 

[Marc]

It's a massive sigh of relief when Shockeye finally dies when I watch it. Compare that with the Fifth Doctor refusing to kill Davros in Resurrection of the Daleks. Another reason why the Sixth Doctor is a million times better.

And herein lies the problem. Because on the whole the Doctor should always hesitate, should always treat killing as the last concievable resort.

And in part that's the problem with the Colin era (which isn't his fault) in that death was suddenly not only blase but also somewhat nasty. Death has always featured heavily in Who, but the killing of Oscar is pointless, and Cheseny licking blood off the floor? See also what happens to Lytton, or the guards who fall into acid in Varos (and the Doctor doesn't seem perterbed at their horrible fate.)

Cheseny and the blood? Well there's an explanation when you think about it and it's actually in character.

The Doctor points out that no matter how much Dastari augmented Cheseny, she was still at the core an Andragum and her licking the blood proves the point.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

One of my favorite episodes.

Here are some points:

1. We get a legendary Doctor in Patrick Troughton, as well as a legendary companion in Jamie McCrimmon(sp?)

2. Peri is hot as usual; wearing the perfect costume throughout the episode (or various 'episodes,' rather).

3. Shockeye is the villain you love to hate; and The Doctor takes care of him.

4. The Sontarans make a return, but one can argue their presence wasn't really needed...but, it's still cool to see them again.

5. Destari's hair and large sunglasses are both questionable....

6. The Oscar character is a little too over-dramatic...

 

[Bacl]

2. Peri is hot as usual; wearing the perfect costume throughout the episode (or various 'episodes,' rather).

I loved Peri pointing out to the Doctor, after he suggests she pose as a student to spy on Desari, that she can't speak Spanish, and then the Doctor very cleverly pointing out to Peri that neither do the aliens.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

2. Peri is hot as usual; wearing the perfect costume throughout the episode (or various 'episodes,' rather).

I loved Peri pointing out to the Doctor, after he suggests she pose as a student to spy on Desari, that she can't speak Spanish, and then the Doctor very cleverly pointing out to Peri that neither do the aliens.

Interesting....

 

[Whofan]

Two Doctors was one of the last scripts by the late Robert Holmes, who died in 1986, unfortunately.

He's often credited with some of WHO's greatest stories, especially during the Tom Baker era (Where he script-edited the first three seasons of Tom). Unfortunately Two Doctors isn't among his best.


I wonder if the script could've worked better in continuity if it were the Fourth Doctor and Sarah instead of the second Doctor and Jaime. It was the Fourth Doctor who kept getting missions from the time lords, after all.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

Two Doctors was one of the last scripts by the late Robert Holmes, who died in 1986, unfortunately.

He's often credited with some of WHO's greatest stories, especially during the Tom Baker era (Where he script-edited the first three seasons of Tom). Unfortunately Two Doctors isn't among his best.


I wonder if the script could've worked better in continuity if it were the Fourth Doctor and Sarah instead of the second Doctor and Jaime. It was the Fourth Doctor who kept getting missions from the time lords, after all.

The Time Lords interfered in all the Doctor's incarnations at one time or another. Still, I like that they put Troughton and Hines; it's gave a sense of nostalgia...even for those who didn't have the 2nd Doctor as 'their' Doctor....

 

[Captaindemotion]

^ And if it had been the Fourth and Sixth Doctors together, it would have to be called The Two Bakers.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

^ And if it had been the Fourth and Sixth Doctors together, it would have to be called The Two Bakers.

And that would have also been awesome....

 

[OmahaStar]

I met Frazer Hines (Jamie) yesterday here at Dragon*Con ... I'll see if I can't put a video of it up on youtube when I get home. Fun times had by all.

 

[The]

Awesome! I wish I had known he was going to be there. I'm only a couple of hours from Atlanta!

 

[starsuperion]

I wonder if they will ever do a two doctors and this time there would be a twist, it is like the mirror mirror universe..where time lords are conquering badasses and the Daleks are the good guys..

 

[Davros]

The location filming is a bit of a waste as well, but then it often was/is. Arc of Infinity and Planet of the Dead for example.

But I stayed at one of the Youth Hostels they visit in Arc Of Infinity.

 

[Starkers]

The location filming is a bit of a waste as well, but then it often was/is. Arc of Infinity and Planet of the Dead for example.

But I stayed at one of the Youth Hostels they visit in Arc Of Infinity.

Well that's cool! I think sometimes though the classic series didn't make best use of the location filming, as someone says on the Arc DVD, the trouble is once you've gone to Amsterdam (or Spain, Paris) you feel obliged to show as much of it as possible...hence lots of shots of characters running about in a LOOK WE'RE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY kind of manner! This wasn't too bad in City of Death at least.