The TNG movies should have been more connected

[C.E. Evans]

But what would have been the conspiracy? The events in INS seemed pretty isolated.

That's how all conspiracies begin, with a seemingly isolated incident that's later discovered to be connected to something larger.

The fact that the Federation was condoning such an act is, as Picard said, a betrayal of the very principles the Federation was established upon. That can be definitely be taken further with a story that something isn't quite right within the Federation (with Insurrection as the first act, a second act could reveal the Federation participating in some very un-Federation-like things). It's the classic "Do the ends justify the means?" moral dilemma.

Yup.

Nope. Actually, the only "conspiracy" Trek movie was Star Trek VI. The Genesis Project was a scientific project that became the obsession of Khan (and later the Klingons) for use as a doomsday weapon. We've had far more stories about trying to stop a weapon of mass destruction than anything else in the Trek films.

They are the law making body of the Federation. Many laws are open to interpretation and those that aren't, they could merely change.

So unless you're going to go down the path that a law making body can't create and change laws as circumstances dictate, you're going to have a rather dull follow-up.

Hell, it would be a dull follow-up either way.

I disagree.

STVI and STIX both focused on a conspiracy, that's the very thing we're discussing in this thread. So yeah, a STX that focused on a conspiracy would have been the third in five movies.

Actually, it would have just continued where Insurrection left off, so it would have simply been the second part of a larger story. Less of a conspiracy and more of an unfolding mystery, really.

I don't want to turn this into another debate on the ludicrousness of the "dilemma" of INS, BillJ knows the madness which leads down that path.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree that there was any basis on which to investigate "corruption" in the UFP. But I can't figure what they would have done with it in any event to make it remotely interesting.

Well, that's just your own thing, because really Insurrection really did create a stage for a closer look at the Federation, which could have led to other things. I could see quite a few directions a sequel could have gone in, including a final confrontation with the mysterious parasitic aliens that were seen in TNG's "Conspiracy."

 

[horatio83]

I think that would be a weak story. You start off with the idea of finding "the enemy within", something I always cherish in art (e.g. King is basically so interesting because he does not focus upon some exterior evil but the evil among us, ugly shit that happens behind ordinary doors), and end up perverting it via externalizing it.
I also think that INS did not focus enough on the political stuff (was it Piller who pushed the bright and playful elements?) to warrant a follow-up story.

 

[BillJ]

I also think that INS did not focus enough on the political stuff (was it Piller who pushed the bright and playful elements?) to warrant a follow-up story.

Piller wrote a much darker story, which was changed due to demands of Stewart and Spiner. It revolved around an ore that was the basis of Federation medical technology that wasn't easily obtainable.

What could have been...

 

[sonak]

I think that would be a weak story. You start off with the idea of finding "the enemy within", something I always cherish in art (e.g. King is basically so interesting because he does not focus upon some exterior evil but the evil among us, ugly shit that happens behind ordinary doors), and end up perverting it via externalizing it.
I also think that INS did not focus enough on the political stuff (was it Piller who pushed the bright and playful elements?) to warrant a follow-up story.

I think Piller originally wanted a darker story focused on corruption, but Patrick Stewart wanted a lighter, funnier story.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think that would be a weak story. You start off with the idea of finding "the enemy within", something I always cherish in art (e.g. King is basically so interesting because he does not focus upon some exterior evil but the evil among us, ugly shit that happens behind ordinary doors), and end up perverting it via externalizing it.

I disagree, I think it would be a very interesting story with a lot of potential. I also think it's just one of several directions to go in.

I also think that INS did not focus enough on the political stuff (was it Piller who pushed the bright and playful elements?) to warrant a follow-up story.

I disagree with this also. If anything, its political stuff very much did warrant a follow-up story.

 

[inflatabledalek]

Interconnectivity may or may not have worked (though considering the apathy towards insurection and the four year gap it's probably a good thing it had a fairly closed ending as there's a good chance any lingering threads would have been completely ignored), but what I'd have liked to see was just more of a sense of the characters not sitting on the Enterprise doing the same job completely unchanged for years.

The TOS Movies were generally good at that, there was a general feeling that they actually had other stuff going on in their lives and the movies were just them getting together for a specific event. V is the only one that opens with the status quo being exactly the same as it was in the series. Having Chekov go be a first officer, Spock a trainer, McCoy a crazy bearded disco diva and so on helped them feel a bit more rounded a developed beyond the series even if it was never lingered on for most of them.

In the TNG film, everyone except Worf (out of necesity) is just stuck in a rut in terms of both position and character. Picard and Data do at least manage a character arc within each movie, but it never seems to be reflected in the next one. Data even regresses badly as the films go on. I think I'm the only person who's glad the chataue Picard scene was cut from Nemesis, because, whilst yes it heavy handedly sets up the ending, it doesn't contain anything except basic human behaviour 101 that Data should have got on a post it note a decade earlier.

In fairness they did a last second attempt to rectify the stagnation of the characters in the last film, but it was too little too late for me by then. I mean, now Riker wants a career again?

 

[BillJ]

In fairness they did a last second attempt to rectify the stagnation of the characters in the last film, but it was too little too late for me by then. I mean, now Riker wants a career again?

Pretty much agree with everything you said.

As far as Riker goes, Starfleet probably told him to take a ship or get out.

 

[sonak]

In fairness they did a last second attempt to rectify the stagnation of the characters in the last film, but it was too little too late for me by then. I mean, now Riker wants a career again?

Pretty much agree with everything you said.

As far as Riker goes, Starfleet probably told him to take a ship or get out.

I like to imagine people back in Starfleet personnel looking at Riker's file going "he's been XO under the same captain for how long?!!?!?"

 

[M-Red]

Good topic. I don't think this was necessary until after FC. For better or worse, GEN bridged the gap and made TNG's big screen introduction. Next with FC, we got the cool Borg movie and the TPTB made a lot of coin.


After the success of FC, the TPTB should have mapped out a coherent storyline that wrapped up the broader TNG narrative. After FC, Trek should have been confident enough in TNG to do this in a multi-film storyline that was intelligent and bold.


I've typed this before but I wish following FC, the third TNG movie would have been set about five years later. Riker and Troi would already be on the Titan, Worf would be the ambassador to Q'noS, and the story would weave them all back together by utilizing their new and different roles in the AQ to make a great film -- or, two films.


This is when they could have given us a truly cool Romulan villain. Not a Picard clone that leads the Romulans, but an actual Romulan emperor. Throw in a familiar face like Tomalak as his top general. This cunning and powerful new Romulan leader could actually WIN (gasp!) the third TNG movie and leave the audience with a cliff-hanger ala Empire Strikes Back.


This would have shown confidence and it would have allowed the fourth TNG movie to be a direct sequel and tie-up the broader TNG narrative with a Federation/Starfleet victory ala TUC.


Bonuses Included: subtle JLP-Crusher romance, growth of Riker, Spock in the "sequel," a villain that wasn't an insane cookie-cutter, and feelings of connectivity and closure.


If those two films were as successful or more than FC, it would have been great to see a fifth film with Q that firmly and concretely finished the entire TNG story. A light, warm epilogue of a film that took us around the galaxy or universe on a truly unique big screen adventure unlike anything Trek had ever seen.

 

[The Dominion]

I think the TNG movies could have done better with following up things from the series rather than each other.

Nemesis should have been a follow up to Unification from TNG. Have a story based around Romulan politics, scrap the Remans, bring Spock back for a cameo along with finishing Sela's arc from TNG. That would have been much better, relevant material for the final TNG movie. Also give Data a death scenario that doesn't feel like such a blatant recycling of Spock's death, and maybe there would have been more interest in following it up.

Insurrection could have been tied into the Dominion War by some small tangent, and worked into a plot revolving around post war issues and conspiracy, but I don't see much that could be done with it without totally rewriting everything from the ground up.

As it was, First Contact was basically a follow up to TBOBW, although it didn't really add anything particularly special besides Picard's Captain Ahab Syndrome.

 

[MikeS]

If Nemesis had been successful I always assumed there would have been something of a trilogy. The movie's tagline was "A Generations final journey begins", not "ends".

 

[DarKush]

^
I can see a sequel coming from Nemesis to clear up that whole B-4 with Data's memories loose end, but how do you get a third film out of Nemesis?

 

[BillJ]

^
I can see a sequel coming from Nemesis to clear up that whole B-4 with Data's memories loose end, but how do you get a third film out of Nemesis?

After Picard & Company go rogue to save Data, they must go back in time to get two beavers, who have gone extintinct, to build a dam to save planet Earth.

 

[MikeS]