1. MAGolding

    MAGolding Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    I just watched "The Tholian Web" on Heroes & Icons.

    I thought that there was a line of dialog missing from where I remember it but now I can't remember what it was or where it wasn't spoken.

    I remember there was one episode where crew members were aboard another starship with everyone dead and there seemed to be 2 different engineering rooms on that ship. Since that scene wasn't in "The Tholian Web" it would have to be "The Doomsday Machine" or "The Omega Glory".

    After fighting with the Tholians, there is a memorial service for Captain Kirk. Spock says:

    So Spock seems to believe that Captain Kirk, if he was still alive, was certainly killed or doomed by the damage to space caused by the battle with the Tholians. Spock states that Kirk's death was a fact.

    And yet some time later Scott says:

    And Spock replies:

    So by then Spock has calculated when the next interphase and chance to recover Kirk will happen.

    And a few minutes later when the next interphase happens Spock says:

    So Spock knows when Kirk will run out of oxygen.

    So it seems to me that Spock could have calculated there was a chance that Kirk still alive instead of declaring Kirk dead at the memorial service. Perhaps Spock decided that after the battle with the Tholians the odds of saving the captain were so small there was no point in keeping up any false hopes among the crew. But it still seems very unscientific of Spock to state that Kirk was dead when it was still possible for Kirk to be alive and it turns out Kirk was still alive.

    Another way in which Spock seems to be a bit imprecise is after the fight with Loskene's ship. Spock says:

    Spock's statement seems to imply that the Tholian ship was disabled. And right after that another Tholian ship appears and the two ships begin to weave "the Tholian Web". Later, at Kirk's memorial service Spock says:

    So Spock said that Loskene's ship had been disabled, while that ship was helping the other Tholian ship spin the Tholian web around the Enterprise, a web Spock had already said could trap them there forever:

    So Loskene's ship doesn't seem disabled enough for the good of the Enterprise, but still capable of helping to trap it.

    So does anyone else think that Spock is speaking a bit imprecisely in this episode?
     
  2. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Easy enough to say he was affected by the interphase.
     
  3. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    I think Spock was succumbing to McCoy's pressure by announcing Kirk was dead.
    Maybe he's calculated that there's a 0.1% or something like that - that Kirk could be alive. But when Spock's being extra Vulcan to deal with Kirk being missing, the conflict with the Tholian's and McCoys nagging - Spock cannot allow himself the luxury of hope.
    So in the scene in Kirk's cabin Spock logically (vulcanly)believes Kirk is dead (although maybe not so in his heart of hearts). Otherwise he wouldn't be so upset.
    Its such a great scene.
     
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  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Aug 26, 2003
    The first rule of crisis communications: forget about truth as you perceive it, or covering your own sorry ass, and do what is right for the community you are responsible for, there and then. When the crisis is over, you can crash and burn on your own free time.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. UnknownSample

    UnknownSample Commodore Commodore

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    Earth's surface
    They were all just winging it, minute by minute. Spock's not infallible.
     
  6. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Captain Captain

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    What's this, now? I'm not the biggest OG expert but I practically have DM memorized. So, two engine rooms?
     
  7. feek61

    feek61 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's "The Omega Glory" which shows two clips of the engine room. They beam into the Engine room and then when Kirk gets on the intercom asking if anyone is on board they show a clip of an empty engine room; thus implying that there are two. In truth it was just poor editing.
     
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  8. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    It the episode's defence, it's hardly the first time that multiple engine rooms were indicated in the series. The first mention was way back in The Naked Time!
     
  9. alensatemybuick1

    alensatemybuick1 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    My interpretation of the interchange between Kirk and Scott:

    SCOTT: Then your fears about that phaser were correct. It blasted a hole right through that crazy space fabric, and only heaven knows where it sent the Defiant.
    SPOCK: Exactly. But the Captain remained. Only the overlap time changed. The next interphase will occur here.​

    Is that Spock had assumed that Kirk went into "oblivion" along with the Defiant, which meant he was unsavable. It may also be that time flowed differently where the Defaint was, and that had be been with the ship, the assumption was that his air would be depleted.

    Another ponderable among many that have persisted for a half-century, but it never really bothered me. As for Spock's "performance" in this episode, I think the Interphase was an unusual enough phenomenon that certain things could not have been predicted, such as the effect of the presence of the Tholian ship or the Enterprise's phaser fire on it, or even Kirk's location relative to the Enterprise or Defiant. I give Spock a pass.

    This episode was aired on MeTV within the last couple weeks. It may be my favorite episode of TOS, A real "ensemble" episode - maybe because Shatner wasn't there for most of it to steal anyone's lines or reaction shots.:) And the interplay between Spock and McCoy esp. after the message tape was played, not just the dialog but even the body language (esp. Nimoy's) really was a beautiful piece of work and example of why this show endures.
     
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  10. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    I think the Tholian ship was disabled, in that it didn't fire on the Enterprise again. It could still move and help the other undamaged ship that came later, but not fight anymore. I think disabled and crippled are a bit different, a crippled ship might need to be towed back for repairs.
     
  11. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Captain Captain

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    Ah. Right on. Thanks, feek!
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Aug 26, 2003
    The one definition of engineering in TOS was "a vast maze in which evil duplicates and arch-nemeses can hide indefinitely". Two identical-looking rooms would be at best a good start - one really needs a brewery wing, a shiny sphere or cylinder with blinkies, and lots of transparent piping, to meet the criterion.

    Timo Saloniemi