The Tholian Web

[CrazyMatt]

What this thread needs is my CGI recreation of one of my favorite episodes. Click for a desktop-sized version:



I agree the TOS-remastered folks missed the boat on the Webspinners. The original lighting gives the a much more exotic, crystalline look. I have tried to honor the original concept in my version.

M.

Rather superb.

 

[J.T.B.]

This was an episode that I kind of got burned out on as a kid, for some reason it came up in the rotation a lot on my local station. I always liked it, though; the Tholians and their motives seemed suitably alien and the Spock McCoy scenes worked well. I agree that the music was very well done, even if none of it was original. The "ghost story" scenes with Kirk appearing were maybe over-played a little, but they work OK for me. And hey, space suits! I thought that was so cool when I first saw it, though the helmet design seems a little odd.

Interesting, how the producers agreed upon naming Enterprise and her sisterships after World War II aircraft carriers (Constellation, Lexington, Exeter, etc.) and yet they forgot their naming scheme and named this derelict Defiant.

Well, Exeter wan't an aircraft carrier name, so that was the first variation in season two, followed by Hood, Potemkin and Excalibur in "The Ultimate Computer."

As a warship name, Exeter is best know for one of the British cruisers that ran down the German raider Graf Spee early in WW2. Though she was not the flagship of the task force, she did take the most damage and inflicted some crucial blows on her adversary. Just speculating, but the name's familiarity in the US may have been helped by the 1956 movie The Pursuit of the Graf Spee (original UK name Battle of the River Plate). In the movie, Exeter's damage is depicted memorably, with her captain and crew continuing to carry out their duties even after the bridge has been pretty much burned out. I don't know if it was shown on US TV in the '60s, but I'd guess it was. I do remember it on TV in the '70s.

To speculate more: Defiant was not a warship name with any history, but the choice may have been influenced by the 1962 film Damn the Defiant starring Alec Guinness.

 

[Wingsley]

Each spectacular scene was punctuated by outstanding music that virtually became identified with the scene. Examples:

When the Enterprise first sighted the derelict Defiant, was this scene identified with the music or was it identified with Sulu confirming Halkan targets with Checkov in "Mirror, Mirror"? I say: Defiant.

When McCoy's hand passes through a dead Defiant crewman and a table in the Defiant's Sickbay, does the music make you think of this scene, or of when the Botany Bay is first boarded, or when Charlie Evans is taken away by the aliens?

When the Defiant started to gradually fade away, did this music make you think of this scene, or when Spock and McCoy get lost in the Sarpiedon Ice Age, or when the Enterprise was caught in an unknown void because of Larry Marvink?

And finally, when the Enterprise is about to be taken away by the Tholians and instead drives into interphase, does that music remind you of that scene, or when Rojan orders the "neutralizing operation", or when Flint snatches the Enterprise from orbit?

 

[plynch]

I can't hear in my mind's ear ANY of those cues, and I JUST watched this baby like two days ago.

 

[Harvey]

This was an episode that I kind of got burned out on as a kid, for some reason it came up in the rotation a lot on my local station. I always liked it, though; the Tholians and their motives seemed suitably alien and the Spock McCoy scenes worked well. I agree that the music was very well done, even if none of it was original. The "ghost story" scenes with Kirk appearing were maybe over-played a little, but they work OK for me. And hey, space suits! I thought that was so cool when I first saw it, though the helmet design seems a little odd.

Interesting, how the producers agreed upon naming Enterprise and her sisterships after World War II aircraft carriers (Constellation, Lexington, Exeter, etc.) and yet they forgot their naming scheme and named this derelict Defiant.

Well, Exeter wan't an aircraft carrier name, so that was the first variation in season two, followed by Hood, Potemkin and Excalibur in "The Ultimate Computer."

As a warship name, Exeter is best know for one of the British cruisers that ran down the German raider Graf Spee early in WW2. Though she was not the flagship of the task force, she did take the most damage and inflicted some crucial blows on her adversary. Just speculating, but the name's familiarity in the US may have been helped by the 1956 movie The Pursuit of the Graf Spee (original UK name Battle of the River Plate). In the movie, Exeter's damage is depicted memorably, with her captain and crew continuing to carry out their duties even after the bridge has been pretty much burned out. I don't know if it was shown on US TV in the '60s, but I'd guess it was. I do remember it on TV in the '70s.

To speculate more: Defiant was not a warship name with any history, but the choice may have been influenced by the 1962 film Damn the Defiant starring Alec Guinness.

Point of trivia: The Defiant name was suggested by de Forest Research (along with Resolute as an alternate). They pointed out in their research memo that the original script's name for the ship, Scimitar, didn't follow establish precedents.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Each spectacular scene was punctuated by outstanding music that virtually became identified with the scene. Examples:

When the Enterprise first sighted the derelict Defiant, was this scene identified with the music or was it identified with Sulu confirming Halkan targets with Checkov in "Mirror, Mirror"? I say: Defiant.

When McCoy's hand passes through a dead Defiant crewman and a table in the Defiant's Sickbay, does the music make you think of this scene, or of when the Botany Bay is first boarded, or when Charlie Evans is taken away by the aliens?

When the Defiant started to gradually fade away, did this music make you think of this scene, or when Spock and McCoy get lost in the Sarpiedon Ice Age, or when the Enterprise was caught in an unknown void because of Larry Marvink?

And finally, when the Enterprise is about to be taken away by the Tholians and instead drives into interphase, does that music remind you of that scene, or when Rojan orders the "neutralizing operation", or when Flint snatches the Enterprise from orbit?

As you probably know, no new music was recorded for this episode. All these great cues were tracked in by music editor Richard Lapham. I read a borrowed copy of Inside Star Trek (Solow & Justman) quite a while back, and I can't remember if he was interviewed in that book, but one of Star Trek's music editors talked about the process.

My favorite musical moment in "The Tholian Web" is when Spock finishes his eulogy for Kirk. The sad cue comes from "Return to Tomorrow," but it works better here because the crew is dealing with much heavier stuff.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Much like when the music in "Spock's Brain" comes on where McCoy is using the Teacher...I always think of Kirk beaming back at the end of this episode.

The best episodes of S3 all use this formula: The Tholian Web, The Enterprise Incident, and This Side of Paradise.

"This Side of Paradise" was a season 1 eppy. Did you mean "The Paradise Syndrome?"

 

[Enterprise1701]

What do you guys think of the original and remastered appearance of the Tholian starship?

 

[Captrek]

Much like when the music in "Spock's Brain" comes on where McCoy is using the Teacher...I always think of Kirk beaming back at the end of this episode.

The best episodes of S3 all use this formula: The Tholian Web, The Enterprise Incident, and This Side of Paradise.

"This Side of Paradise" was a season 1 eppy. Did you mean "The Paradise Syndrome?"

Yes, I meant The Paradise Syndrome. Thanks for catching that.

 

[Wingsley]

What do you guys think of the original and remastered appearance of the Tholian starship?

As I pointed out upthread, I like what TOS-R did with the Enterprise and the web, but I disliked what they did with the Tholian ships and the Defiant's disappearance. So, it was kind of a mixed bag.

 

[Wingsley]

I have a question:

Is the Starship Defiant's registry commonly accepted as NCC - 1764, thanks to TOS-R and "In a Mirror, Darkly", or is this rejected because of these appearances?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

What this thread needs is my CGI recreation of one of my favorite episodes. Click for a desktop-sized version:



I agree the TOS-remastered folks missed the boat on the Webspinners. The original lighting gives the a much more exotic, crystalline look. I have tried to honor the original concept in my version.

M.

That's excellent!

 

[Maurice]

What do you guys think of the original and remastered appearance of the Tholian starship?

Original =
Remastered =

I don't think Dennis' script for The Tressaurian Intersection portrays the Tholians inconsistently with "The Tholian Web". They don't attack the Exeter willy nilly. They just want to be left alone and are willing to warp their territory into another universe to get some privacy. Yeah, their space-shifting device threatens Tressaurian colonies, but they consider that space their territory. They're aliens after all, so their attitude towards colonists setting into their territory—as they consider the colonies— might be "you squatted in a construction site, you get what's coming to you."

Not that I approve.

 

[Melakon]

I have the 3rd season only with original effects. I'm sort of glad I did it that way, as there are several episodes that might have benefited, but I can't imagine anything topping the impact of the web's original appearance.

 

[Maurice]

"The Tholian Web" was highly regarded from the start. Its first network repeat was heralded by a "Close Up" in TV Guide, an honor given to only a handful of shows per week:

Defiant is a very British-sounding ship name. Another trivia point associated with it is that Franz Joseph called it Defiance in the Technical Manual.

It's also incorrect. "The Tholian Web" was didn't win an Emmy. No one on TOS ever got one, although they garnered nominations.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

It's also incorrect. "The Tholian Web" was didn't win an Emmy. No one on TOS ever got one, although they garnered nominations.

The clipping does say it was a nomination. Easy to miss if you're skimming; I blew right by "This Side of Paradise" in a prior post, reading it as "The Paradise Syndrome" because the topic was S3. And I really love "The Paradise Syndrome."

Also it says "won an Emmy nomination," which really baits the hook for hasty proofreaders.

The only mistakes I can see in the TV Guide clipping are that the Enterprise was not technically disabled (figuratively, it was by the situation Spock faced), the ship should not be upside down (technically it isn't, in outer space), and William Shatner should be listed first because he is the greatest leading man in the entire history of Star Trek.

 

[HarryM]

One thing that jumps out to me in this one is there seems to be a scene missing where Spock figures out what's going on. He rather abruptly asks the computer to "Compute the next period of spatial interphase" w/o any explation of how and when he figured out what to ask it for. Other than that minor quibble, a great episode. Oh, and they obviously wore EVA suits so that Kirk could float around in interspace and be able to breathe, remarkable foresight!

 

[GSchnitzer]

A (tiny) bit more about the environmental suits can be found here:

http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=4511

(Bear with it; it's towards the end of the article.)

McCoy seems unusually cranky in this one, but I think it can be attributed to showing early signs of the interphase space affecting him. This story is notable for Kirk being almost totally absent from the bulk of the story as Spock, McCoy and Scotty work to find a way to save the ship and themselves as well as retrieve Kirk. And it's interesting to see the dynamic among the characters when Kirk is absent.

We get our first look at TOS' environmental suits. It's never explained, but I still wonder if the suits were used because they detected that there was no functioning life support aboard the Defiant or they had reason to want to protect themselves from some possible contaminant. I still like the f/x in this although I don't recall seeing what TOS-R did with them, except for the revised Tholian ships which I think TOS-R botched thoroughly.

This is essentially a bottle show and yet like in "The Immunity Syndrome" they keep things moving along smartly. Well done.

Lastly, I think I noted some original music in this, but I'm not entirely sure because I could also hear familiar pieces from previous episodes.

 

[Maurice]

It's also incorrect. "The Tholian Web" was didn't win an Emmy. No one on TOS ever got one, although they garnered nominations.

The clipping does say it was a nomination. Easy to miss if you're skimming; I blew right by "This Side of Paradise" in a prior post, reading it as "The Paradise Syndrome" because the topic was S3. And I really love "The Paradise Syndrome."

Also it says "won an Emmy nomination," which really baits the hook for hasty proofreaders.

I've never liked the phrase "win/won a nomination", anyway.

 

[Wingsley]

Back to the Defiant's registry:

Prior to TOS-R establishing Defiant as NCC-1764, what, if any, number did fans (or whoever) assign to the lost starship?