Spoilers The thing in bay 12

[SpocksOddSocks]

Like a good neighbor, Fed Farm is there...

LDS? That was my favourite episode of the first season.

After watching Võx a few times, I kind of wished they had said they were sending Jack to "The Farm", but I realise they probably had no way of inserting that into the dialogue in a way that sounded natural and easy for a non-LDS viewer to follow.

 

[anh165]

Riker just cut one and doesn't realize it blew up the dust. How embarrassment.

Riker is baking one of his pizza's again ...

 

[Macintosh]

Let's not kid ourselves, the Defiant was right there and she was designed to fight the Borg.

While the Defiant was designed to fight the Borg, she wasn't intended to solo a cube. She was supposed to be part of a squadron of Borg-Busters. While she's powerful for her size she's also tiny. The Defiant struggled going 1-to-1 against a refit Excelsior-class and was left adrift and powerless after the Battle of Sector 001 despite there being many other ships there – indeed she only survived at all because of the timely intervention of the Enterprise-E. We hardly ever see her take on a capital ship directly during the Dominion War. The only thing she really has over a Galaxy-class is manoeuvrability – in a straight see-who-hits-hardest competition for raw firepower in absolute terms my money's on the Galaxy-class.

If they were really going for the most well-armed ship in the museum they should have picked the Akira-class USS Sentinel, But based on what Geordi says she's not fully operational. Besides, some of Picard's crew haven't been on starships in decades – how up-to-date do you think they are on Defiant-class or Akira-class operations? Better stick with the ship they know top-to-bottom and upside-down. To quote Riker in "The Best of Both Worlds": "But this is not the time for change. I need you all where you are, where Captain Picard always relied on you."

And had a cloaking device.

The Defiant with the cloaking device was the original, NX-74205, destroyed in DS9: "The Changing Face of Evil". The cloak was unique to the original Defiant and is not a standard feature of the class. The second Defiant, the rechristened Sao Paulo NCC-75633 which is the one in the Starfleet Museum, did not have a cloaking device.

 

[thribs]

The Defiant was fighting the Borg cube for nearly a day. It did pretty well considering

 

[anh165]

Just a thought - "non salvageable" from Generations might mean she'll never be up to standards as a working Starfleet ship. And she isn't. She's a museum piece intended for touring and such cheesy stuff, which our heroes have taken out for their proposterous nostalgia galaxy-saving. Let's not kid ourselves, the Defiant was right there and she was designed to fight the Borg. And had a cloaking device.

Much like the TOS connie classes, I would view the Galaxy class ships are very expensive and resource intensive assets to build and repair.

In addition to the Defiant, the Sovereign class ship was at the advance stages of the pipeline and it would have made sense to concentrate on prioritising everything towards a more defense minded fleet what with the potential Borg threat following BOBW ... The Ent-D and her sister ships were very much peace time vessels circa 2360's, the first of their kind for families on board etc when the Starfleet top brass viewed the galaxy in a rose tinted way.

 

[anh165]

While the Defiant was designed to fight the Borg, she wasn't intended to solo a cube. She was supposed to be part of a squadron of Borg-Busters. While she's powerful for her size she's also tiny. The Defiant struggled going 1-to-1 against a refit Excelsior-class and was left adrift and powerless after the Battle of Sector 001 despite there being many other ships there – indeed she only survived at all because of the timely intervention of the Enterprise-E. We hardly ever see her take on a capital ship directly during the Dominion War. The only thing she really has over a Galaxy-class is manoeuvrability – in a straight see-who-hits-hardest competition for raw firepower in absolute terms my money's on the Galaxy-class.

When you step back and view the Defiant's on screen combat history, she did struggle considering all the designed for battle credentials.

The Klingon's and Romulans have been using small agile ships, packing a punch and with cloak capability for decades, what it lacked was plot/hull armour...but they made up for that in numbers.

But in the Defiant's defense, as you say this type of ship was designed to be part of a squadron. Imagine a swarm of 12 of these in syncronisation, they would be a nightmare for any of the usual Alpha/Beta quadrant powers to deal with.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Fun Easter egg in Picard season 2 set dressing, the Enterprise-D display at Starfleet Academy mentions her saucer being in the fleet museum. Link.

 

[Tomalak]

Another detail, Geordi said there were still some issues with the port nacelle, if you look closely there does seem to be same damage on it

The nacelle pylon appears to say NCC-17744 on the Time square model
https://www.reddit.com/r/startrek/c...?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Terry says it's NCC-1744...

https://twitter.com/TerryMatalas/status/1646670853445402624?t=1gypjEINo-2FjVzHN0Bm6g&s=19

Possibly some kind of in-joke? If it was NCC-71744 it would work better.

 

[Deks]

You're completely right about the real world reason for not restoring the ship, they wanted a new one for the movies. In universe, however restoring the ship would be a very difficult job.
You can't just build a new stardrive section. It's been made clear that building ships takes years and that's once you actually start building one. Shipyard and dock facilities as well as workforces would be blocked out for years in advance, long lead items (warp cores etc) need ordering years in advance. In the real world it takes about 15 years from ordering a reactor to a nuclear sub going to sea. You can't just insert a major item like this (the stardrive section alone is bigger than most starships) and expect it to roll off the line in a year or two. If it was that easy to build new ships then they wouldn't have been flying around in TNG in Excelsiors and Mirandas.
Geordi has had 20 years to work on the damage to the saucer and the ship flies, but we don't know how much of the interior has been restored. All the crew compartments, laboratories, leisure facilities, toilets? (hopefully there's enough of the latter for 7 people!) Starfleet would need to ask itself if all of this is an efficient use of resources, or should we just slap the name on a ship already under construction. They obviously came to the latter conclusion.

It was NEVER stated that it takes years to build a starship... otherwise, the Dominion War would have been lost very quickly.
The Delta Flyer was built manually by the VOY crew inside a week... minimum or little automation working on it in the process.

Seriously next to superluminal computing + replicators + tractor beams, etc... it would literally be simple to replicate smaller sections of a starhip (each roughly the size of a shuttle and just attach them all together.
Its not that big of a deal.

Non-salvageable my rear end... they have the ability to reconstruct matter from base elements for crying out loud... its not a huge deal to rebuild the saucer and make a new stardrive section inside a month with all the automation Starfleet has.

 

[Stuart Wilson]

Then why were people flying around during the TNG era in Excelsiors and Mirandas? Why were they using them to fight the Dominion? If you can build a ship that quickly why isn't every ship in the Dominion war a Sovereign or a Defiant?

 

[Spike730]

Possibly some kind of in-joke?

It's probably a refit of the Constitution II-class USS Syracuse.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

LDS? That was my favourite episode of the first season.

After watching Võx a few times, I kind of wished they had said they were sending Jack to "The Farm", but I realise they probably had no way of inserting that into the dialogue in a way that sounded natural and easy for a non-LDS viewer to follow.

Too much LDS in the Sixties?

 

[anh165]

Then why were people flying around during the TNG era in Excelsiors and Mirandas? Why were they using them to fight the Dominion? If you can build a ship that quickly why isn't every ship in the Dominion war a Sovereign or a Defiant?

Budgetary reasons and also the rule that you don't make duplicates of the hero ships as it would confuse the audience.

In-universe would excuse Starfleet for using Miranda and Excelsior classes as they have served their purpose for decades during peace-time and are relatatively expendible. They would save their best ships and top commanders for special operations ... a bit like how in Discovery S2 it was explained why Pike and the Enterprise were not involved in the front line against the Kingons.

 

[valkyrie013]

Riker is baking one of his pizza's again ...

Yeah.. like to find the smoke machine person and break there thumbs.. Stop that crap.. Even in SPACE!.. Space isn't smokey!!

 

[Stuart Wilson]

Budgetary reasons and also the rule that you don't make duplicates of the hero ships as it would confuse the audience.

In-universe would excuse Starfleet for using Miranda and Excelsior classes as they have served their purpose for decades during peace-time and are relatatively expendible. They would save their best ships and top commanders for special operations ... a bit like how in Discovery S2 it was explained why Pike and the Enterprise were not involved in the front line against the Kingons.

I get both these reasons, my question was to Deks comment about Starfleet being able to repair the Ent D in a month or so, Vs my point about it being a job that would take a long time.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Yeah, that's one reason I would have been fine had the bridge been in Generations configuration, she could have been at one of those side stations.

She could have sat on one of the side guest seats next to troi or Riker.

 

[anh165]

I get both these reasons, my question was to Deks comment about Starfleet being able to repair the Ent D in a month or so, Vs my point about it being a job that would take a long time.

I can't imagine a Galaxy class ever being a ship that can be churned out quickly and in large numbers, even if you forgo guest/family living quarters, the holodecks and Mott's barber parlour ...

 

[SpocksOddSocks]

Too much LDS in the Sixties?

2360s anyway

 

[The Old Mixer]

Amanda Plummer's in the conference room.

 

[Tuskin38]

Possibly some kind of in-joke?

Memory-Alpha speculates the Syracuse Football team. The number 44 is significant to the Syracuse University football team.

Anyways it says 17744, you can read it on the Time square display. Terry probably misremembered.