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The status of the Federation in 2399

Well LaForge I think was born out in space since his parents were Starfleet officers and Worf while not human did grow up with human parents and use to like on Gault a farming community. Data also created by a human was created on a human colony world. Dr Crusher it seems grew up on that Scotland like planet. Chuckles grew up on a Indian colony near the Carddisians. I think Torress also grew up on a planet in that region. I don't think we know if Paris grew up off world. Seven of course spent some childhood time with her parents in space before the Borg assmiliated her.

Jason
 
Well LaForge I think was born out in space since his parents were Starfleet officers and Worf while not human did grow up with human parents and use to like on Gault a farming community. Data also created by a human was created on a human colony world. Dr Crusher it seems grew up on that Scotland like planet. Chuckles grew up on a Indian colony near the Carddisians. I think Torress also grew up on a planet in that region. I don't think we know if Paris grew up off world. Seven of course spent some childhood time with her parents in space before the Borg assmiliated her.

Jason

Random Aside but I always found it disconcerting that colonists revering the protagonist of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged apparently had their own planet in Star Trek.
 
Well LaForge I think was born out in space since his parents were Starfleet officers and Worf while not human did grow up with human parents and use to like on Gault a farming community. Data also created by a human was created on a human colony world. Dr Crusher it seems grew up on that Scotland like planet. Chuckles grew up on a Indian colony near the Carddisians. I think Torress also grew up on a planet in that region. I don't think we know if Paris grew up off world. Seven of course spent some childhood time with her parents in space before the Borg assmiliated her.
And Tasha Yar quite famously came from a failed colony with roaming rape gangs...
 
Random Aside but I always found it disconcerting that colonists revering the protagonist of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged apparently had their own planet in Star Trek.
I had to look up that reference.

We can rest easy, Gault is no Galt. But that doesn’t rule out there are colonies based on whacky ideologies.
 
I had to look up the machinations behind the Mars attack. Got it. (Watched PIC once when it aired.)

So the Zhat Vash were willing to doom their own people by stopping the Fed rescue in order to get the Feds to stop doing synth research. To prevent the screaming space octopus from wiping out all life?

So the Zhat Vash were pretty selfless, about their own kind (Romulans) and way more concerned about life being preserved in our galaxy, yes?
 
Well the "Stratsphere" is on fire.. so.. is the rest below that fine? Did they have to evacuate Millions??
Do HATE when shows/books/etc. just say something important then give NO backstory, or any story at all to explain what happened, and what is happening now. Ugh..
 
I had to look up the machinations behind the Mars attack. Got it. (Watched PIC once when it aired.)

So the Zhat Vash were willing to doom their own people by stopping the Fed rescue in order to get the Feds to stop doing synth research. To prevent the screaming space octopus from wiping out all life?

So the Zhat Vash were pretty selfless, about their own kind (Romulans) and way more concerned about life being preserved in our galaxy, yes?

A mere billion Romulan peasants died. What's that in the scheme of things?
 
I had to look up the machinations behind the Mars attack. Got it. (Watched PIC once when it aired.)

So the Zhat Vash were willing to doom their own people by stopping the Fed rescue in order to get the Feds to stop doing synth research. To prevent the screaming space octopus from wiping out all life?

So the Zhat Vash were pretty selfless, about their own kind (Romulans) and way more concerned about life being preserved in our galaxy, yes?
The Tal Shiar thought that the supernova warning is a hoax and the Federation wants to take over Romulan planets by simply evacuating them using fake news. To stop what they thought was an invasion, they destroyed the fleet (Countdown)
 
The Tal Shiar thought that the supernova warning is a hoax and the Federation wants to take over Romulan planets by simply evacuating them using fake news. To stop what they thought was an invasion, they destroyed the fleet (Countdown)
Which would make sense given their more paranoid stances. I also don't think the Romulans were forthcoming regarding the nature of the disaster to their general populous, or to the rest of the quadrant powers, which also is keeping with their insular nature.

Honestly, I think even if the Federation was offering constantly after detecting that possibility for years the Romulans would deny them access.
 
Which would make sense given their more paranoid stances. I also don't think the Romulans were forthcoming regarding the nature of the disaster to their general populous, or to the rest of the quadrant powers, which also is keeping with their insular nature.

Honestly, I think even if the Federation was offering constantly after detecting that possibility for years the Romulans would deny them access.

Part of the issue I've always felt is the fact that the TNG Romulans were North Korean based versus China as they were originally intended. As such, they should be falling apart rather than a powerful empire.
 
Part of the issue I've always felt is the fact that the TNG Romulans were North Korean based versus China as they were originally intended. As such, they should be falling apart rather than a powerful empire.
Ah, I still took them as a Chinese analog, though not a modern one, clearly.
 
So the Zhat Vash were willing to doom their own people by stopping the Fed rescue in order to get the Feds to stop doing synth research.

Well, we know that Nedar, operating under the alias of Oh, had infiltrated Starfleet and ascended to a high level by 2385. Most likely Nedar had infiltrated Starfleet some time in the 2360s -- I would hypothesize, in fact, that the Zhat Vash decided to infiltrate Starfleet after the warbird that made contact with the Enterprise-D in 2364 during TNG S1's "The Neutral Zone" brought back video footage of their call with the Enterprise and they noticed an android on the bridge. So more likely than not, the Zhat Vash were had been looking for an opportunity to do something that would frighten the Federation into abandoning synth research for decades, and they decided to take the opportunity to do so when synth labor usage and humanoid personnel assignments to Utopia Planitia vastly increased as a result of the rescue armada building project.

I don't think the Zhat Vash were trying to get the Federation to abandon the rescue effort, but it was a cost they were willing to pay in the name of preventing synth research from duplicating Soong's success in creating sentient androids like Data. Remember, Zhat Vash leadership are essentially driven by an irrational compulsion as a result of exposure to the Admonition.

So the Zhat Vash were pretty selfless, about their own kind (Romulans) and way more concerned about life being preserved in our galaxy, yes?

Absolutely! In their own way, the Zhat Vash are selfless. Of course, in their own way, the Zhat Vash are also deeply tyrannical and abusive; sharing their fears about the existence of the Admonition-Makers publicly and advocating for peaceful and egalitarian relations with synthetic sentients would be a more effective way of preventing the Admonition-Makers from being summoned, but they're too invested in the broader Romulan culture of fear and secrecy to consider that possibility.

Well the "Stratsphere" is on fire.. so.. is the rest below that fine? Did they have to evacuate Millions??

Well, the atmosphere on Mars is not breathable, so most likely the vast majority of Martians live in pressurized environments that are hermetically sealed. If that is the case, they would likely be protected from the atmospheric ignition unless the sealing mechanisms are not capable of withstanding the fire temperatures. I would hypothesize that the death toll on Mars was relatively low because the oldest domes would have been the ones that couldn't withstand the temperatures; newer domes, or perhaps those reinforced with forcefields, would be able to withstand the fires. So you have a situation where it might be truly apocalyptic if you're living in a city under an older dome or a dome without forcefield reinforcements, but where you're pretty much okay if you're in another city; most cities could remain untouched, but the ones that aren't would essentially be destroyed entirely.

Do HATE when shows/books/etc. just say something important then give NO backstory, or any story at all to explain what happened, and what is happening now. Ugh..

This is a level of detail that really isn't relevant to the story PIC is telling. The Mars Attack to PIC is essentially like 9/11 to a modern political drama. Modern political dramas may incorporate 9/11 into their backstory, but they're not gonna spend a lot of time going into the exact casualty figures or how many survived or how long it took to rescue people from Ground Zero or how many firefighters died of lung cancer later, unless it's relevant to the plot.

I would be really interested in seeing the story of the Mars Attack expanded upon myself, but it's really not important to PIC.

Part of the issue I've always felt is the fact that the TNG Romulans were North Korean based versus China as they were originally intended. As such, they should be falling apart rather than a powerful empire.

I mean, they kind of are falling apart if you think about it. We know from TNG's "Unification, Parts I & II" that there's an active Romulan dissident movement amongst the civilian population that the governmental elites fear, including a Vulcan Reunification movement within the larger dissident movement. A major Romulan flag officer tried to defect to the Federation in 2366 (TNG: "The Defector"). In 2371, Tal Shiar allied itself with the Obsidian Order and launched a massive pre-emptive assault on the Founders of the Dominion, only to find its fleet and personnel decimated or captured as a result of Founder infiltration (DS9: "The Die is Cast"). The Tal Shiar survives, but it's not even able to hijack a single Federation starship in 2374 (VOY: "Message in a Bottle"), and then it turns out that the Chair of the Tal Shiar is a Section 31 mole who arranged to get an important Romulan senator executed (DS9: "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges"). The Romulan Imperial Fleet in 2373 offers to join the Federation/Klingon expedition to prevent the Dominion fleet from attacking the Bajor system, but their entire fleet is only narrowly saved from being wiped out -- a major intelligence failure for the surviving Tal Shiar (DS9: "By Inferno's Light"). The Star Empire under Praetor Neral (DS9: "Inter Arma") signs a neutrality agreement with the Dominion and then finally joins the UFP/Klingon Alliance, only to lose a shiton of ships at the Second Battle of Chin'toka (DS9: "The Changing Face of Evil"). Four years later, the Star Empire has yet another new Praetor in Hiren and he's already probably re-ignited the semi-permanent cold war with the Federation, there's a Reman rebellion underway, and then the fucking Remans manage to assassinate the Praetor and the entire Imperial Senate by allying with a militant wing of the Imperial Fleet (NEM). Then there's a new Reman Praetor (sort-of) -- but no sooner does this happy asshole install himself into power does he run off and get his dumbass killed in a pre-emptive genocide attempt that even his Imperial Fleet allies turn against him to protect (NEM).

Sounds like an empire that's falling apart to me, even before the supernova!
 
My understanding is that the Romulan Empire broke up into multiple successor states - like the ex-Soviet Union or Yugoslavia - after the Romulus/Remus system and whatever other core worlds died in the supernova.

The Neutral Zone is history now.

Mars? I'm not sure what the situation is. If that was a full-member nation in the Federation and was evacuated thanks to the Zhat Vash messing with the synths at the Utopia Yards as they did, then that's one less member world. Unless it can be safely repopulated. Which is possible, I suppose.

The Federation as a whole? Probably slightly expanded over the decades. I can't see their borders being static. I expect to see real tendrils on the map reaching out to Deneb, Rigel, Mintaka and Antares - among other systems - the next time it's properly revised. Those fourteen members who were threatening to leave over the Romulan Rescue Project? They were likely right next to the Neutral Zone, most of them.
 
Kirk also lived for a time on a colony. Though, I'm rather curious as to what difference it would make to have a human from Earth, a human from Mars and one from Alpha Centauri?
If humans are the great explorers/colonisers all humanity would not be living solely on earth for 200 years. Just as humans on Star Trek from Earth, serving in Starfleet should not all come from the same nation
 
If humans are the great explorers/colonisers all humanity would not be living solely on earth for 200 years. Just as humans on Star Trek from Earth, serving in Starfleet should not all come from the same nation
Of course, yes. What I am curious about is how that would inform the character? What differences would people like to see with such details? How would characters be different?

I agree that Starfleet can have a wide variety of people from different places. Is the purpose to make the Federation feel bigger?
 
Of course, yes. What I am curious about is how that would inform the character? What differences would people like to see with such details? How would characters be different?

I agree that Starfleet can have a wide variety of people from different places. Is the purpose to make the Federation feel bigger?
Probably, the UFP should feel big and vast, even though the way the plots play out Kronos, Bajor, Romulus and Vulcan are just next door from Earth. Alpha Centauri is what 4 ly away from Earth? Under warp drive you should be able to get there in 1 hour.
 
I actually am intrigued by the implications of Freecloud. Basically, something akin to Jackson's Hole from the Vorkosigan Saga or Novaria where everything goes.

What about the Federation has necessitated some of its citizens want a lawless Dubai/Vegas?
 
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