Old Republic which stood as (at least) an interstellar organization for 25,000 years. The Federation is a small fraction as old
While the Federation might only be a couple of centuries old, some of it's members (like the Vulcans) were making interstellar journeys for thousands of years.
That's true. But for all the history Vulcan/Romulan star-flight has, their ships of the 22nd Century were considered relatively primitive compared to their 24th Century descendants. This suggests that the period of development that is critical to this discussion is indeed the two centuries prior to the construction of the
Sovereign-class
USS Enterprise. IIRC, We're never told exactly how long the Vulcans/Romulans have had interstellar capabilities (somehow I have a figure of 2,000 years in my head, but I have no idea where that came from). Vulcan attitudes about "we already know it all" seem to have stagnated their development and we don't know when that might have happened exactly either.
OTOH, all the Expanded Universe stories from going as far back as 6,000 years BBY, seem to reveal fundamentally unchanged technology from that available during the Galactic Civil War. Any advancement seemed pretty lateral in it's nature; variations on themes, not wholesale improvement. We don't really know at what point their technology plateaued either. But compare the Vulcan's two(ish) millennia with the Republic/Empire's twenty-five, and we see a much larger span for ironing out the details of how stuff works.
Plus, at least as I understand it, the old Republic thousands of years ago was quite small, and grew over time.
Fair enough. It would only seem logical. But, again, we're talking
tens of thousands of years ago. Besides, I figure that speaks as much or more about the political structure of the Galaxy more than it's inhabitant's technology.
Even by the time period shown in the movies it encompassed about two-thirds of it's galaxy, there were large areas outside of it in the "rim." ... as compared to the Federation's two quadrants.
Two points here. First of all, the Old Republic seems to have indeed controlled 60% to 70% of their galaxy. But I'm left with the impression that the Galactic Empire was expanding to some extent as well. Not likely enough to alter the overall percentage of the galaxy held too much. But in Episode I we are explicitly told that Tatooine is not part of the Republic, but in Episode IV, all the Imperial presence in Mos Eisley would suggest that it had been annexed one way or another since the transition to empire. This expansion likely took place in a lot of areas in the Outer Rim.
Secondly, While the Federation
exists in two quadrants, it's not fair to assume it controls half the Milky Way. It's a large tendrilly mass mostly in (but by no means dominating) the Alpha Quadrant with a few arms reaching past the border of Beta Quadrant. The Federation is surrounded by it's neighboring national powers who also occupy significant sections of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants with plenty of room to spare before you get to Gamma or Delta Quadrants. I recall somewhere (again, I can't remember where exactly) a figure of something like 14% of the galaxy having been explored by the 2360's. (Maybe Wesley said so at some point? Maybe it was in a Technical Manual or something?) 14% is a far cry from 65%. But again, that only makes sense given that one of these groups had a 20,000 year head start.
Also, the Empire wouldn't dare project the majority of it's forces against Starfleet, because they're needed in the Empire itself to maintain terror and obedience over it's own population.
Also, Starfleet has a obvious advantage in the form of the Rebel Alliance, who the Federation can ally themselves with. The Empire has no such group "inside" the Federation.
Both good points! Of course, I think we're talking more about a one-on-one encounter rather than fleet deployments.
turbolasers ... Notice that they deliver a bolt of energy with lateral light emission ...
Isn't that exactly what a phaser beams does too?
Sure does. Phasers aren't lasers either.
In common usage "turbo" is a prefix the delivers to the following word an emphasize. So turbolaser simply means "more of a laser." In other words, it still a laser.
So a turbolift is ... more ... of a lift. Okay, I'll buy that. I suppose sideways moving is more than just up and down. I always figured they were trying to make you think it moved faster, but either way I guess it works!
On the other hand, words can remain in a lexicon long after their literal meaning is obsolete. On a third hand, there may indeed be a really powerful laser inside the machinery that is used as a component in generating the bolt of blaster energy that shoots out of the barrel (Also note: barrel, not lens. A laser is emitted from a lens not a hole like a gun.). In this case, then the reference to "laser" in the term "turbolaser" might be technically current after all even though it is really a giant blaster cannon.
So, E-E vs. Executer, Based on a technical review alone (who cares who is in command) in a head to head fight, the E could use torpedoes until it got smashed to pieces against the awesome hail of ion cannon and turbolaser
Albertese, what happens if the Enterprise engages a "Executer" while FTL? I don't believe imperial warships can even see around themselves in this realm, therefor can not target their weapons.
Starfleet doesn't suffer from this adorable little problem and will cut a SSD to pieces, without having to worry about return fire.
Except that the
Enterprise's warp drive is in a totally different category of FTL flight than a Star Destroyer's hyperdrive.
A warp engine generates nested subspace fields which press against each other and propel the ship. The nature of subspace isolates the ship from the surrounding volume of the universe in a way that negates the effects of special relativity (i.e. linear compression, infinite mass, and time dilation). The ship is isolated from the universe, but not removed from it, therefore, sensors utilizing subspace radio beams can still "look out" as it were. This is why you are correct in that the Fed ships won't suffer from blindness.
But a hyperdrive is altogether different. It tunnels through hyperspace which is an alternate dimension from real space. It is connected and related to real space as gravity shadows do effect how things move through hyperspace. But the reason why you can't "look out" here is that the ship is literally not in the universe their trying to look at.
Therefore a warp-driven ship would not be able to shoot at a hyper-driven ship as the two vessels are not occupying the same dimension.
There's another factor: relative velocity. A warp driven ship is moving at dozens to hundreds of times the speed of light. The
Star Trek Encyclopedia lists the normal maximum for a Starfleet vessel as warp 9.2 at a slick 1,649x the speed of light. Bear in mind this is a dash speed, not a cruising speed. But a ship in hyperspace moves at
millions of times the speed of light. Travel from Coruscant to any planet in the Outer Rim seems to be matters of hours, not weeks. (Note: Lucasfilm's official line is that the events of Episode III take all of nine days to unfold, and there's plenty of back-and-forth across the galaxy in those nine days). No Starfleet ship would have a snowball's chance of catching a hyper-driven ship in a chase. Period.
This only seems fair given a twenty millenia technological head start.
who cares who is in command
Starfleet Captains tend to think their way through battles, and not just blindly fire at their enemies. Consider how Riker got the Bird of Prey to lower it's shield in GEN. Who is in command of the opposing ships is very important.
It doesn't matter what you have, it's how you use it.
On this point we very much agree!
This is where protagonists outshine the antagonists. Personnel and quick wits can certainly make a difference. But on a strictly technical perspective given the relative strengths and weaknesses of the opposing military's technological equipment, I still say the SSD will simply stomp a Sovvie head-to-head.
However, that's not to say there aren't more parable ship's from the Imperial Navy. The few ships of the
Executer class were the biggest and baddest the Imperials had at the time. It was only really outshined by the
Eclipse and the
Death Stars. Throw the E-E at, say, a
Venator and you'd probably have better parity. Throw it as something like a
Carrak cruiser and it'll probably have a solid upper hand. But the Super Star Destroyer is just not a fair fight. Sorry.
I, too, once fought the fine fight and tried to reason out how the Federation could beat the Empire technologically. I suppose deep down I'm probably a little more of a
Star Trek fan than I am a
Star Wars fan (though not by a wide margin). I really wanted the Feds to come out on top. But the more honest thought I gave to this particular problem the more the answer seems clear.
--Alex
