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The STAR TREK Hero: With or Without Flaws?

How Do You Prefer Your STAR TREK Heroes?

  • Heroic - Larger Than Life

    Votes: 5 15.2%
  • Flawed and Imperfect

    Votes: 28 84.8%

  • Total voters
    33
I'd like to see a very good, capable and professional Starship commander who spends his off-hours and shore leave time secretly making a fortune outside Federation borders with underhanded things like illegal arms dealing, the Orion slave trade and whatnot.

While on duty, he's like Pike on the Enterprise. While off duty, all bets are off and he's like Pike in the dream sequence with green Vina.

Would that be flawed enough? :vulcan:

Kor
 
Well, there are flaws and then there are flaws. By "hero" I presume you mean the ship's captain ad senior staff members. One doesn't make it to the higher ranks in the military with any major character flaw. They are human (or at least humanoid) and thus will have normal flaws that any normal person would have. Nobody is perfect. But too many flaws and Starfleet Command will look for someone else to fill the job.
And yet Admiral Marcus became head of Starfleet
 
I'd say "poor writing" but I've met a couple real-life high-ranking officers / enlisted who snuck by ...... :(
 
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Picard in 'First Contact' turning into Captain Ahab
Kirk/McCoy/Bones/Scotty - had issues with women
McCoy- too close to being a racist IMO
Spock - an arrogant, 'deny my human blood' snob
Kirk- a man whore
Scotty - his relationship with the Enterprise was not healthy
Sarek - a hypocrite
 
I accept that the TNG movies had to have a broader appeal and that, to accomplish that, it became necessary to do things with the characters which fans might not appreciate. I'm not at all thrilled with how Picard turned vengeful, but I accept it in the same way that I accept that Kirk & Co. had been made bigots to serve the needs of TUC. It's out of character, completely, but That's Entertainment! What we crave for, inside ...
 
I'd like to see a very good, capable and professional Starship commander who spends his off-hours and shore leave time secretly making a fortune outside Federation borders with underhanded things like illegal arms dealing, the Orion slave trade and whatnot.

While on duty, he's like Pike on the Enterprise. While off duty, all bets are off and he's like Pike in the dream sequence with green Vina.

Would that be flawed enough? :vulcan:

Kor

In Star Trek I'd prefer flawed but still an ethical person. Not that 'Vince GilliganTrek' wouldn't be fun in a way.
 
I accept that the TNG movies had to have a broader appeal and that, to accomplish that, it became necessary to do things with the characters which fans might not appreciate. I'm not at all thrilled with how Picard turned vengeful, but I accept it in the same way that I accept that Kirk & Co. had been made bigots to serve the needs of TUC. It's out of character, completely, but That's Entertainment! What we crave for, inside ...
Is it out of character, sometimes we don't know what we are capable of until the situation arises.There was precedent for Kirk's attitude, his son was killed by a Klingon he spent his whole career seeing them as The enemy. Imagine how many Americans and other Western allies of a certain generation refuse to have anything to do with Japanese or German products/people the scars of war run deep. As for Picard he was turned into a Borg that is enough to turn anyone insane. You want a real world example of decent people being effected by events -
1. Consider the American attiude after 9/11
2. Consider people actually voted for Donald Trump the American version of Terra Prime
 
Bottom Line? I'll watch the Evening News, if I want to watch Real Life, on the telly.

I'm fine with having Picard, et al, being portrayed as a cut above the rest, at all times. So, yes, it's "believable" that Kirk would blame and hate ALL Klingons for David's death ... as a Human reaction. But not as a James T. Kirk reaction, I'm sorry. And I'm going by Movie Kirk logic, as well, not just the TV show. In fact, The Classic Series depicted all of the characters - not just the 2nd Bananas - as rather thin. The motion pictures enriched them, considerably.

TSFS: Kirk is shown - after his son was murdered and much drama, otherwise - attempting to $ave Kruge from certain death. That's in the final thing; the movie, itself.

TFF: Kirk is shown to be, genuinely, admiring Kor (the fat General) and his interactions with the Klingons, especially towards the end, show Jim Kirk as being well-adjusted, footloose ... and fancy free. Shatner was true to Kirk's optimism, in his picture, despite whatever else he may have run afoul on, in it. James T. Kirk is a Renaissance Man - and that's for certain!

But I also understand and/or realise that these people and situations don't exist. If CBS wants to turn STAR TREK into a sock puppet show, hey ... guess what? At the end of the day, it's no less credible than the series or movies were. Kirk's just words on a page, to be written by anyone authorised by those who hold the pink receipt to the copyright on it. At the same time, yes, I would like the 'truth' of these characters to be maintained. If the facts of their existence are toyed around with - like Khan remembering Chekov - then, so be it. I don't give a shit. But I don't need Picard to be humbled, to realise that he's a Human being, after all. I don't need T'Pol to be genetically predisposed to drug addiction. Again, I watch STAR TREK for that hour, or so, escape. I want to "be" with the TNG crew on some glorious investigation into The Human Condition. Same goes for the other series/movies, as well. Hell ... you don't know how hard it is for me to watch old movies with Ed Harris in it, he reminds me so much of my father!
 
If I wanted black and white heroes and villains, I'd watch Superman or Batman, because they were never meant to be like real people.

That's why I watch any kind of fiction. Of COURSE these aren't real people; they can be as heroic as the writers make them. And to that end, I say, let them BE heroic!

Heck, I like it when shows or films show me exactly who is good and who is evil. I'm not really into moral ambiguity, as such. I still believe in the concepts of good and evil, and I like it when I'm shown that very thing. (Note that I don't expect to see things presented in this way; I just like it when it does happen.)

If I wanted to see real people, I'd watch the TV news. I don't watch shows or films for reality; I watch them for an ESCAPE from reality.

(Now don't mistake my meaning, I don't mind the "occasional" flaw. Just don't pile on too many of them. Too many flaws make a character weak.)
 
I think most main characters in Star Trek are flawed somehow:

TOS Kirk seems larger than life and too perfect, but by TMP, he is flawed for sure. Ambition to take command away from Decker almost destroys his friendship with Decker, as well as jeopardizes the V'Ger mission. In TWOK, he is very flawed (how he deals with age, no win scenarios, his son, not raising shields). in TUC, he begins as prejudiced against Klingons.

Spock, more or less larger than life to most of the crew, but his internal struggle of his human half vs Vulcan half is a flaw of sorts. His coming to terms with it in the movie era post death is sort of a resolution to that struggle. In the TNG era, his conflict with Sarek is a flaw.

McCoy's flaw is mainly being too passionate and emotional.

Scotty, Sulu, Chekhov, and Uhura didn't really seem to have flaws per se, but their function seemed to mainly be followers.

Picard: definitely flawed in terms of dealing with children. It reminds him he may have sacrificed too much for his career by not having a family of his own. His unrequited feelings (not love, necessarily) for Dr. Crusher, at least until the movie era seem a flaw.

Riker: Usually a good leader, but I always felt that some of his suggestions to Picard are shot down as not the best course of action to intentionally show he is the "first officer" and not "co captain" of the Enterprise.

Data: Almost larger than life, save for his lack of emotion, and his quest to be more human. Once he does have the emotion chip installed in Generations, I think he has a hard time adjusting to emotions. By First Contact, he is shown as being able to shut it off at will, and by Insurrection and Nemesis, Data is largely characterized as he was before the emotion chip. So does this mean he has failed in his attempt to integrate emotions? Maybe! In which case that is a flaw.

Worf: Flawed in the sense that his Klingon Honor seemed to clash with Starfleet ideals and obligations quite a bit. Also, he seemed a flawed parent, sloughing Alexander off to his adapted parents.

Geordi: seemed pretty well rounded, but his physical flaw is his blindness, and his personal flaw would be his love life.

Troi: Her main flaw probably would be that she is a Starfleet commander by rank, but has largely acted strictly as a ship's councilor so long, that she has neglected her leadership skills. TNG addresses this in later seasons.

Dr Crusher: I think her main flaw was that she was not detached enough. Being a doctor, she seemed to let her biases and emotional connections get in the way of her voicing her concerns to the captain a little too much.


Sisko: Definitely flawed in the beginning. He was a broken man after his wife died. Other than his obsession with Eddington, he had few flaws throughout the show. By the end of the series, after being revealed as half-prophet, he is almost larger than life.

Janeway: I felt she was overconfident and heavy handed in the beginning. Also, her application of the prime directive was inconsistent: at times she followed the letter of the prime directive too literally rather than the spirit of the PD in some cases, yet disregarded the PD in other cases.

Archer: His flaw is being too naive in the beginning. Also, I think his prejudice and resentment towards Vulcans clouded his judgement in the first 2 seasons.

T'Pol: Seemed a little too emotional for a Vulcan (aside from her Trellium addiction), but I chalk that up to the fact that had the show gone to fifth season, we might have seen her revealed as half Romulan, which would have explained much of that. Then again, being in her 60s, she was relatively young for a Vulcan, which also could explain her emotional reactions.
 
I said "like" real people, not that they WERE real people. There is a difference. "Like real people" simply means that although they ate fictional people, they are believable and you could imagine them as actual people.

While there's a place for Batman style fantasy fiction where characters are dualistic, black and white with no shades of grey, yes/no with no maybe, either 100% right or 100% wrong, that sort of thing is too simplistic to engage much interest from me. I prefer characters that are more nuanced and less generic representatives of good and bad.

People can do the right things for the wrong reasons and do wrong things with good motives, which I find more interesting than mustache twirling villains who get off on being the baddest in the land, protagonists who are whitewashed to the point of sainthood. That kind of thing is far too predictable, and I prefer twists and turns that keep me guessing.

I even like stuff sometimes when the protagonist doesn't come out on top at the end. I mean, if you know that the protagonist will *always* win at the end, no matter what, it takes some of the suspense out of it.

A few of John Grisham's more recent novels have had such unpredictable, ambiguous endings, which I found an interesting change, though I wouldn't want them all to end that way.
 
If I wanted black and white heroes and villains, I'd watch Superman or Batman, because they were never meant to be like real people.

Batman is neurotic, vengeance-obsessed, and violent, and is on a crusade that's basically hopeless because he can't ever do away with crime, and because of more brutal villains arising in reaction to his work. I find that to be more nuanced (and real) than some purely noble and virtuous heroes who do everything out of the goodness of their hearts.

We need a starship captain who has Batman-like motiviations.

Kor
 
I think most main characters in Star Trek are flawed somehow:
T'Pol: Seemed a little too emotional for a Vulcan (aside from her Trellium addiction), but I chalk that up to the fact that had the show gone to fifth season, we might have seen her revealed as half Romulan, which would have explained much of that. Then again, being in her 60s, she was relatively young for a Vulcan, which also could explain her emotional reactions.
The irony is all the Vulcans were flawed in ST Enterprise, even T'Pau put her fundamentalist views before the health of Archer, she was prepared to risk his death to get Surak's katra in her head. Could be down to her own immaturity, being only in her 40's at the time. As for V'Las I am surprised he made it that far in the government to run a whole planet.
 
The Vulcans were flawed long before Enterprise. Heck, the first Vulcan we ever saw besides Spock was T'Pring in "Amok Time," who plotted to get Spock and/or Kirk killed just so she could marry someone else. And then there was Sarek, who was estranged from his own son for eighteen years because they disagreed over his choice of career, and who also concealed a serious heart condition from his own wife. Sorry, that's pride and stubbornness, not logic.

And need I mention Valeris?
 
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