The Spock-Sarek relationship by "Unification"

[sonak]

It had been many times that I'd seen "unification" before this started to bug me. The main reason we were given for the strained Spock-Sarek relationship in the TOS era was Sarek's disapproval of Spock's decision to join Starfleet. However, after the events of TSFS and TVH, there's a key scene where at the end of the latter film, Sarek acknowledges that it is "possible that his judgment" regarding that decision was incorrect. The point of this scene is that Sarek has accepted Spock's choice and there's been a greater reconciliation than even in "journey to babel." (helped no doubt by Sarek's efforts after Spock's death to bring him back)

Fast-forward to "unification," where apparently decades later, despite Sarek getting a second chance with Spock after his return, and after accepting his career choice, the relationship is STILL strained. And actually, at this point Spock has followed in Sarek's footsteps and become an ambassador, something that you'd think would satisfy Sarek more.

So why are they still mostly distant from each other so far beyond the events of the TOS-era films?

 

[Elias Vaughn]

People are stubborn.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I sort of had the same thought myself at the time. But yeah, "people are stubborn" would seem to explain it.

That was one thing I thought was kind of interesting in The Undiscovered Country. Spock wanting Valeris to 'follow in his footsteps' sort of paralleled Spock's situation with his father. Much as a person might say "I'm not going to be like my father was", yet in the end wind up doing the exact same thing. Granted she wasn't Spock's kid, but it was presented very much as a mentor/father-type situation.

And it didn't appear that Spock was too happy with her choices, either!

 

[MacLeod]

It's what some 75-80 years between TVH and "Unification" somehing else might have happened in that period.

 

[EVL_Ripper]

Sometime after the Khitomer Conference, Spock left Starfleet and became an ambassador and representative of the Vulcans to the Federation. It is suspected he and Sarek were involved in few diplomatic missions. The two, however, split again over the Cardassian issue of the 24th century. Sarek was also dismissive of Spock's friendship with Romulan Senator Pardek, who he had met at Khitomer, and the prospects for a lasting Federation-Romulan peace. (TNG: "Unification I") By that time, Amanda had died, and Sarek had married another Human woman, named Perrin. Sarek was present at his son's wedding before they again stopped speaking to each other; it was at that event that Sarek first met Jean-Luc Picard. (TNG: "Sarek")

Per Memory Alpha.

 

[2takesfrakes]

They should've let the whole Spock/Sarek relationship strain element go, by this point. I guess they didn't because now, if they get Leonard Nimoy to come back for other shows, he's always got to share the spotlight with Mark Leonard. Or maybe they just figured it was more "dramatic." Personally, I suspect it was just plain laziness, in trying to harken back to The Original Series, evidenced by issuing poor Sarek yet another Human wife. What is this, some kind of a fetish, he has? Is that logical? I was also disappointed that they gave Sarek Alzheimer's. I mean ... can he get at least one small break? Come on ...

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

They should've let the whole Spock/Sarek relationship strain element go, by this point. I guess they didn't because now, if they get Leonard Nimoy to come back for other shows, he's always got to share the spotlight with Mark Leonard. Or maybe they just figured it was more "dramatic." Personally, I suspect it was just plain laziness, in trying to harken back to The Original Series, evidenced by issuing poor Sarek yet another Human wife. What is this, some kind of a fetish, he has? Is that logical? I was also disappointed that they gave Sarek Alzheimer's. I mean ... can he get at least one small break? Come on ...

I thought he played the 'alzheimer's' well.

I don't think the human wives are a fetish, I suspect he was just accustomed to the (what became for him) the norm, a relationship with a human woman.

That seems to happen often. A personal example was a woman I used to work with. She had had gotten divorced, and some time later started a relationship with a guy who, for all practical purposes, was a clone of her husband, right down to his field of occupation!

Maybe people tend to seek the comfort of the familiar...

 

[2takesfrakes]

Probably so. Perin was alright, she seemed to be a nice lady. She was certainly protective of Sarek, that much is certain. And as a Human, she seemed the only one of Sarek's entourage even remotely capable of approaching Picard about $aving Sarek's dignity, in the end. But Amanda was instantly likeable, whether she was Spock's mum, or not, and seeing another Human in her stead cut no ice with me. I would've preferred Sarek with an entirely other kind of alien, if not Vulcan. It just echoed the other series too closely, and it made it look like TNG was afraid to take too many chances.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Slightly off-topic, but Sarek's death is the ST character death that hit me the hardest because it was so real. He wasn't killed by a slime monster or didn't sacriifice himself in grand heroic style: he just got old and died. You know he's near the end when Picard meets with him, and when Picard says, "Sarek is dead," it's like a parent breaking the news about the death of a beloved grandfather.

 

[T'Girl]

As of the end of The Voyage Home, Spock and Sarek managed to put the old problem behind them, only to find out that they just didn't like each other.

Two very different people, who just happen to be family.

 

[Ronald Held]

By Vulcan standards he was not that old.

 

[Shat Happens]

I never got Spock and Spocksdad were still estranged in Star Trek IV. At the ending of the Babel episode, still in the hospital beds, they seemed to be getting along just alright, with Spocksmom venting down on them all the stress and relief after the danger had passed and them chatting in relaxed Vulcan fashion.

In the movies III and IV Spock had a family to be with and home to stay while he convalesced from the katra reimplant (and his renegade friends while his dad defended them in the Council). That's not like the dad was still angry. No, Spock and Sarek were cool by then.

In the 24th century it must be another thing, probably Sarek just didn't think it was a good idea Spock going to Romulus alone (it wasn't).

 

[Hober Mallow]

Perhaps they had a falling out after Amanda died.

 

[HIjol]

As usual, I agree with a lot of what 'Takes and LMFAO have to say, but I tell ya! I miss Mark Leonard's performance...understated...elegant...masterful...

"Peace and Long Life", indeed...

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

It's what some 75-80 years between TVH and "Unification" somehing else might have happened in that period.

My understanding is that they disagreed about the Federation's policy toward the Cardassians.

--Sran

 

[sonak]

It's what some 75-80 years between TVH and "Unification" somehing else might have happened in that period.

My understanding is that they disagreed about the Federation's policy toward the Cardassians.

--Sran

that's not canon though, is it?

The episode does mention disagreements, but it seems odd that with these two any kind of significant disagreement leads to estrangement.

Do they not speak for years after they disagree about what movie to see as well?

 

[Marsden]

... and it made it look like TNG was afraid to take too many chances.

If TNG had a grave stone, that would be it's inscription.


I was happy to see Sarek, and really sad that he was sick and died. I didn't like his second wife too much, but I was probably unjustly comparing her to Amanda.


I wonder what about what they could have disagreed over stinking Cardassians.

 

[Shat Happens]

Maybe it wasn't about the war. Maybe they were referring to Cardassian Sunrises.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Perhaps Sarek handled Amanda's death badly. I can totally see him being unable to acknowledge his own emotions regarding it, and then perhaps doing something like rushing into a rebound marriage with a second human wife - and then saying something incredibly insensitive to Spock about it that implies or even outright says that Perrin is a suitable replacement.

Maybe the reason for the estrangement this time is that Spock is the one who is disappointed with his father. Symmetry.

 

[borgboy]

I think I've read, probably on Memory Alpha or Beta, that after a disagreement between Spock and Sarek, Perrin told Spock he wasn't welcome in their home, which cemented the estrangement, and doesn't make Perrin come off any more likable.
It does make sense to me that Sarek would marry another human. I've seen people in real life go into new relationships with people similar to their exes. He was probably drawn to similar qualities in both women. He had a type, and they both fit it. I don't think a traditional Vulcan woman would've suited Sarek. We know his first wife was a Vulcan princess, and that didn't work out.
Sarek always came off as a real jerk as a father, too judgemental, too controlling and withholding - and even kind of racist, as he reacted negatively to any sign of humanity in his half human son. It's only Mark Leonard's personal charisma that makes Sarek likable to me. I did find Sarek more likable in the reboot, but then the great loss he suffered brought out a different side to him.