The Spock-Sarek relationship by "Unification"

[Ithekro]

It was definately an issue over Federation relations with the Cardassians that seems to be at least one root of the issues between Sarek and Spock. Consider that was only maybe twenty or thirty years prior to Sarek's death (unless the Federation has been taking issue with the Cardassians well before the 2340s, like say with the occupation of Bajor in the 2320s). So they were probably not estranged for many years, though I imagine Spock and Sarek would have issues after Amanda's death.

Picard went to Sarek's son's wedding at somepoint prior to Sarek and Spock's second estrangement. Since Picard has also met Spock once before, one can assume this was the same time (meaning Spock's wedding). And that it was definately not Spock's wedding to T'Pring, since not only was Picard not born yet, but Spock and Sarek were not speaking yet (that was before the Babel Conference). Sybok is assumed dead, and Sarek is not known to have any other sons. None with Perrin is known to have been born. And the giant clone "Spock 2" probably is out of the question.

 

[Marsden]

... And the giant clone "Spock 2" probably is out of the question.

I just don't see how you can make that assumption.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

People are stubborn.

Especially, when it comes to Vulcans.

 

[Ithekro]

... And the giant clone "Spock 2" probably is out of the question.

I just don't see how you can make that assumption.

Maybe he too went though Pon Farr, and they had to, um...get a volunteer who would agree to be cloned to such a large size and then mind mend with her original body so that both might live.

The question would be, who and when?

 

[borgboy]

The novel Vulcan's Heart does end with Picard meeting Spock at his wedding to Saavik.
Which is only a little less strange than if it were a wedding for Spock's giant clone.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I wonder what about what they could have disagreed over stinking Cardassians.

What I remember of the episode's dialogue is Sarek's wife mentioning that Spock attacked his father's position publicly, an experience that left Sarek feeling both betrayed and humiliated.

--Sran

 

[Armored Saint]

I think I've read, probably on Memory Alph[a or Beta, that after a disagreement between Spock and Sarek, Perrin told Spock he wasn't welcome in their home, which cemented the estrangement, and doesn't make Perrin come off any more likable.

If it's case the case, it was erroneous. Perrin: He didn't even say goodbye to his father before he left.

I just take a look on my Kindle version of Jerry Taylor's novelization. The dialogue between Picard and Perrin is almost intact (including the line I quoted). According to Taylor's description, Spock's sudden disapperance had a really bad effect on Sarek. That seriously angered Perrin and that's why she says as far as I'm concerned, he disappeared a long time ago. It's not explained how Perrin made sure Spock knew she was offended.

 

[Nebusj]

I just take a look on my Kindle version of Jerry Taylor's novelization. The dialogue between Picard and Perrin is almost intact (including the line I quoted). According to Taylor's description, Spock's sudden disapperance had a really bad effect on Sarek. That seriously angered Perrin and that's why she says as far as I'm concerned, he disappeared a long time ago. It's not explained how Perrin made sure Spock knew she was offended.

For what it's worth, here's the transcript from Chakoteya.net; I haven't checked whether it accurately matches what was actually broadcast:

PICARD: Do you have any idea why [Spock] might have disappeared like this?
PERRIN: Captain, as far as I'm concerned, he disappeared a long time ago.
PICARD: Would it be inappropriate to ask what happened between you and Spock?
PERRIN: Not between us. Between Spock and his father. They had argued for years. That was family. But when the debates over the Cardassian war began, he attacked Sarek's position publicly. He showed no loyalty to his father.
PICARD: I was not aware that Sarek was offended by Spock's opposition.
PERRIN: I was offended. I made sure Spock knew it. I'm very protective of my husband. I do not apologise for it.

 

[borgboy]

That dialogue doesn't make me like Perrin any better. Spock should be allowed to disagree with Sarek, even publicly, without it being a betrayal to Sarek. If anything, Sarek has a history of disloyalty to his son, by rejecting him continually for choosing his own path, and possibly for not being "Vulcan" enough, which is horribly racist.

What were Spock and Sarek's individual positions in the Cardassian debate, if we know?

 

[Shat Happens]

Sarek is cool. Spock is cooler. Nobody likes Perrin. All agree?

 

[Armored Saint]

It remains unexplained.

Perrin's overprotective toward Sarek, she nearly admits it. That kind of personnal conflict where the offended isn't the target of the remark. I think it's easy to happen in that kind of family context. The stepmother doesn't understand well the relationship between her husband and her stepson, so she doesn't know what the two others consider acceptable or not.

and possibly for not being "Vulcan" enough, which is horribly racist.

Calling that racism superficial and simplistic. Like Spock, I'm the child of two worlds, since my mom is a Greek immigrant. The last time I've been criticized for not speaking Greek, it was by my father perhaps five years ago, despite they divorced well-before. Most of people who once criticized me for not being Greek enough aren't even Greek. For me, it's not racism, it's simply unsolicited moralizing remarks. Parents have always expectations about their children about their path and a mixed cultural heritage can be a source of complication.

Sarek's problem wasn't about racism or not, but about dealing with his expectation. The rigidity of Vulcan society didn't help.

I think you're also forgetting Unification is ending with Spock discovering how much his father loved and was proud of him by his mind-meld with Picard.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Sarek is cool. Spock is cooler. Nobody likes Perrin. All agree?

Who likes a stepmother anyway...

 

[Marsden]

Sarek is cool. Spock is cooler. Nobody likes Perrin. All agree?

I good with that, shat.


I was just wondering how those snakeheads could have come between them, and it's the wicked stepmother the whole time!

 

[urbandefault]

Fathers and sons butt heads all the time, but that doesn't necessarily make either of them butt-heads.

A simple disagreement can easily escalate to the point of estrangement. As we've seen, Vulcans are proud, opinionated, and set in their ways. To me, it's not a stretch for Spock and Sarek to have parted ways over a difference of opinion (again).

 

[Commishsleer]

Sarek is cool. Spock is cooler. Nobody likes Perrin. All agree?

Who likes a stepmother anyway...

Agreed.

A stepmother should never get between a child and their parent -a step-parent never can win.

You'd think Sarek was some delicate flower the way Perrin talked about him. Not the guy who (agreed presumably) to banish his first child from his home planet and then refused to speak to his only other child for 18 years.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

Sarek is cool. Spock is cooler. Nobody likes Perrin. All agree?

Who likes a stepmother anyway...

Agreed.

A stepmother should never get between a child and their parent -a step-parent never can win.

You'd think Sarek was some delicate flower the way Perrin talked about him. Not the guy who (agreed presumably) to banish his first child from his home planet and then refused to speak to his only other child for 18 years.

I liked the first one better, IE Spock's real mother as far as I know.

And I mean the one played on TOS, not Winona Rider (ewwwww!)

 

[wulfio]

It had been many times that I'd seen "unification" before this started to bug me. The main reason we were given for the strained Spock-Sarek relationship in the TOS era was Sarek's disapproval of Spock's decision to join Starfleet. However, after the events of TSFS and TVH, there's a key scene where at the end of the latter film, Sarek acknowledges that it is "possible that his judgment" regarding that decision was incorrect. The point of this scene is that Sarek has accepted Spock's choice and there's been a greater reconciliation than even in "journey to babel." (helped no doubt by Sarek's efforts after Spock's death to bring him back)

Fast-forward to "unification," where apparently decades later, despite Sarek getting a second chance with Spock after his return, and after accepting his career choice, the relationship is STILL strained. And actually, at this point Spock has followed in Sarek's footsteps and become an ambassador, something that you'd think would satisfy Sarek more.

So why are they still mostly distant from each other so far beyond the events of the TOS-era films?

Perfectly relate-able for me. I followed in my dads foot steps at one point. You can take my word for it, it didn't help the relationship.

 

[2takesfrakes]

My father always was into waterskiing and scubadiving and hunting. That was like his thing. I don't do any of that shit, it never interested me. Sometimes it's hard to talk to my father, because even though he works hard and is responsible, he's also a kind of a hedonist, in a way. If it's not a problem he can just throw money at, then he's not going to be available for that discussion.

All he wants to hear is how great things are going. It's kind of funny in a way, because there is some distance there that kind of makes him like some TV dad to me. Always there with this cheerful phrase to make everything alright, "Just remember that you're a 'Frakes' and you'll do fine, son. Just fine." Dad ... that doesn't really ... you're not saying anything! "That's a good lad! Off to shoot some pheasants! Let me know how everything goes." Of course, the outcome's always sunny - whatever happens.

Even my male friends have suggested it's like that with their fathers. They mean well and all that, but ... uh. Yeah, I can kind of relate to the distance thing with Sarek and Spock. But because we were never going to get to see too much of Sarek, anyway, they seemed happy to just keep milking that one issue that's already established because ... does it really matter? It's not like we're going to be seeing him again, real soon. But as someone who loves a good story, it is kind of boring and mildly annoying to keep seeing the same story getting rehashed ...

 

[Last Redshirt]

That dialogue doesn't make me like Perrin any better. Spock should be allowed to disagree with Sarek, even publicly, without it being a betrayal to Sarek. If anything, Sarek has a history of disloyalty to his son, by rejecting him continually for choosing his own path, and possibly for not being "Vulcan" enough, which is horribly racist.

What were Spock and Sarek's individual positions in the Cardassian debate, if we know?

We don't.

I like to think that Sarek was cautious over them, at least having a grasp on the fact that the Cardassians were brutal and militaristic and couldn't be reasoned with, and probably saw war as a logical conclusion to tensions between the Federation and the Cardassians, while Spock probably took the Starfleet Gospel to heart and thought they could be talked into being peaceful and nice. Since we all know how this ended, it's possible Sarek was not only offended by the fact his son insulted him in public, but dared to oppose his father, since he was in the right.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I like to think that Sarek was cautious over them, at least having a grasp on the fact that the Cardassians were brutal and militaristic and couldn't be reasoned with, and probably saw war as a logical conclusion to tensions between the Federation and the Cardassians, while Spock probably took the Starfleet Gospel to heart and thought they could be talked into being peaceful and nice. Since we all know how this ended, it's possible Sarek was not only offended by the fact his son insulted him in public, but dared to oppose his father, since he was in the right.

It's also interesting to consider the Cardassian situation juxtaposed with Spock's prior experiences with the Klingons and his future efforts to reunify the Vulcan and Romulan peoples. It's not all hard to imagine Spock envisioning a scenario in which the Federation could find a way to peacefully coexist with the Cardassians as they did with the Klingons, particularly given the pivotal role he played in the peace process with the latter. It's also not hard to imagine Sarek scoffing at the idea and attributing Spock's optimism to his emotional human half--a comment that would almost certainly have infuriated Spock and driven him to attack his father publicly.

--Sran