The Skaro Conundrum (SPOILERS!!)

[Candlelight]

The problem is though, Skaro was most definitely destroyed in Remembrance of the Daleks, when the planets' sun went supernova thanks to the Hand of Omega (In screencaps from the game, it appears Skaro still has a sun). This was well before the era of the Time War. Skaro is also depicted as still being around in the 1996 TV Movie. Is there any way this can be explained?

The Daleks tricked the Doctor into believing he had destroyed Skaro, but it was in fact another planet, beginning with A. It was mentioned in a novel I think.

Granted, canon doesn't usually flow between mediums but I tend to believe this is the best solution.

EDIT: The planet 'Antalin'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skaro

 

[EJA]

The problem is though, Skaro was most definitely destroyed in Remembrance of the Daleks, when the planets' sun went supernova thanks to the Hand of Omega (In screencaps from the game, it appears Skaro still has a sun). This was well before the era of the Time War. Skaro is also depicted as still being around in the 1996 TV Movie. Is there any way this can be explained?

The Daleks tricked the Doctor into believing he had destroyed Skaro, but it was in fact another planet, beginning with A. It was mentioned in a novel I think.

Granted, canon doesn't usually flow between mediums but I tend to believe this is the best solution.

EDIT: The planet 'Antalin'.

That's from War of the Daleks, by John Peel, one of the early Eighth Doctor range. The hypothesis he puts forth is seriously flawed though and doesn't really hold water, so I have problems accepting it, as do a lot of fans.

Now that I think about it, I reckon Davros' appearance in Remembrance was a bit silly. Why does he want to discard what remains of his body and hide inside an oversize Dalek shell? Doesn't really make a lot of sense IMO.

 

[HappyDayRiot]

Davros rarely does make a lot of sense - remember the reality bomb?

 

[starsuperion]

The problem is though, Skaro was most definitely destroyed in Remembrance of the Daleks, when the planets' sun went supernova thanks to the Hand of Omega (In screencaps from the game, it appears Skaro still has a sun). This was well before the era of the Time War. Skaro is also depicted as still being around in the 1996 TV Movie. Is there any way this can be explained?

The Daleks tricked the Doctor into believing he had destroyed Skaro, but it was in fact another planet, beginning with A. It was mentioned in a novel I think.

Granted, canon doesn't usually flow between mediums but I tend to believe this is the best solution.

EDIT: The planet 'Antalin'.

That's from War of the Daleks, by John Peel, one of the early Eighth Doctor range. The hypothesis he puts forth is seriously flawed though and doesn't really hold water, so I have problems accepting it, as do a lot of fans.

Now that I think about it, I reckon Davros' appearance in Remembrance was a bit silly. Why does he want to discard what remains of his body and hide inside an oversize Dalek shell? Doesn't really make a lot of sense IMO.

I agree with the last statement..

 

[Lonemagpie]

also I thought the Dalek Mothership was in 1963.. and not in the distant future..

That's right, but when they launch the Hand of Omega, one of the Daleks reports "Hand of Omega now entering Skaro time zone" - which we can take to be in the distant future. (The Doctor also says earlier that they're from the future, and are wary of fucking up the web of time by changing things too much)

 

[Charlie Kelly]

It's possible that the Daleks changed history during the time war and saved their planet, only for them to later abandon it. Maybe they all left their planet for one final strike against the time lords where they where all wiped out by the Doctor, which is why the planet was left to ruin until it was later reclaimed by the new Daleks.

Or as someone already suggested maybe the Daleks created a new homeworld and named it after their old planet because they have no imagination.

Charlie

 

[JoeZhang]

Wibbly wobbly timey wimey ?

Isn't that how everything gets explained eventually ?

Funny, Enterprise got bashed senseless for using time travel to explain any inconsistencies and never did anything like this.

Yeah but Enterprise was always so straight laced and po faced about everything, and was coming from a huge history where every little thing needed to link togeather. Meanwhile Who has always been a bit more relaxed about continuity and concentrated on the story above continuity- nothing in Who's history screams you can't do that, whilst Enterprise was busy bastardising the history behind four other series. And not even doing it in an enjoyable way.

I'm not saying I think Who shouldn't have any continuity, and I actually think it needs more than it has currently. I think eventually you could get to a point where nothing matters so there's no drama, but I'll take the fun Doctor Who over the pretty to look at but essentially joyless show that Enterprise was for the most part any day.

I'm perfectly happy for Doctor Who to be the show it wants to be. If it wants to say that time travel is complicated then that's how it should be, though I'd rather that they come up with some basic unbreakable rules.

However, Enterprise was often accused of using the Temporal Cold War to explain discontinuities that didn't exist. Most of the big continuity "breaches" were based in fanon.

But Star Trek is an American show for people who like to draw diagrams and give 40 minutes using power power-point presentations about how Kirk's boots were different between two episodes. Any true Doctor Who fan knows that the correct answer to these types of questions is "who the fuck cares?"

One is about continuity, one is about consistency.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ If one is about continuity then why is our friend EJA worried that previous stories are going to be negated or erased? Also I have to completely disagree with your generalized statement regarding Star Trek fans jest or not...I'm just as interested in Doctor Who techno babble as I was in Star Trek techno babble.

So these games are part of the continuity of the show? I didn't know that...interesting and EJA please correct me if I'm wrong didn't you say that in your original post that the Doctor and Amy travel into an alternate timeline? I'm really tired right now and lost track of what you were trying to find out.

 

[The Badger]

also I thought the Dalek Mothership was in 1963.. and not in the distant future..

That's right, but when they launch the Hand of Omega, one of the Daleks reports "Hand of Omega now entering Skaro time zone" - which we can take to be in the distant future. (The Doctor also says earlier that they're from the future, and are wary of fucking up the web of time by changing things too much)

^ This. I seem to recall the Doctor stating the Daleks were a 'thousand years' from their home.

As to the possible survival of Skaro post 'Remembrance', the fact that it had habitable planets suggests that Skaro's sun was not massive enough to turn supernova under natural circumstances. Perhaps, even with the help of the Hand Of Omega, it wasn't powerful enough to completely destroy the Dalek homeworld. Also, according to 'The Daleks', it is the twelfth planet in it's system, much further out. Though unlikely I do think it possible that something of that world survived.

 

[starsuperion]

I think that Skaro exists in the New series and is different from the remembrance events...this is maybe due to the Time war, or the new paradigm some how time traveling and crossing the Dalek's past.. in which case left Skaro a ruined planet and the events with the Movellans didn't happen.. or the Movellan war changed somehow.. either way, the planet is as it was when the 4th doctor left there with Romana II, and Davros left there..

So I think this wiped out the events of the "Remembrance Era" and restructured the or wiped out that episode as an event.

maybe some of the Universes history, canonical inconsistencies are all going to be corrected over the course of the series by Moffat.. consider how much RTD changed when he rebooted the series..

Maybe Moffat is interested in using some minor events to explain past ones..who knows.. I have yet to see the conclusion of the time crack story line..but he's got a whole other season to correct and explain things that exist in the DW universe. Or maybe the 2nd part of the game explains what happened to Skaro Post Remembrance events, or before those events..

either way, there are a lot of major inconsistent events and things in the new who versus the old..I would not be upset if the new series had to wipe away some of the classic series events to fix a time line to become more cohesive..

I know, I know, it's sacrilegious of me..

But I like the new as well as the classic, and I would love to see the Moff fix the two canons and marry the best of it together..

Note:

But Star Trek is an American show for people who like to draw diagrams and give 40 minutes using power power-point presentations about how Kirk's boots were different between two episodes. Any true Doctor Who fan knows that the correct answer to these types of questions is "who the fuck cares?"

One is about continuity, one is about consistency.

If you are going to complain about us Yankees on a Star Trek site that over uses techno-babel and diagrams with respect to that Genre, then why would you converse on a Trek Website about Doctor who in the first place.. and then complain about it?? it seems contradictory considering there are some good Doctor Who websites out there.. In which case, on those sites you wouldn't be putting anyone down and get exactly the type of conversation you desire..

 

[Phily B]

Alternate reality? What? I thought alternate realities were closed off?

 

[Admiral_Young]

^This is what I thought as well and why I asked for clarification. If the game takes place in continuity and and alternate timeline (something that the Tenth Doctor said was impossible because of the Time War) then why can't we have stories in the future with Rose and the Human Tenth?

 

[Starkers]

then why can't we have stories in the future with Rose and the Human Tenth?

Because they would be annoying

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ HAHAHA it would for some of you I think ya!

 

[Phily B]

And Skaro was destroyed, or locked in the Time War I think?

All I can guess is that maybe the Daleks found some way through and try to bring Skaro back.

 

[Phily B]

The Doctor discovered that the New Dalek Empire had invaded Earth in 1963. He went to the rebuilt city of Kaalann and discovered that the Daleks had found the Eye of Time, a Time Lord device that helped them alter Earth's timeline. Using the Eye, the Doctor was able to travel to Kaalann when it was ruined and before the Daleks arrived. He managed to sabotage the Daleks' vision, allowing him to deactivate the Eye. The timeline returned to normal and the New Dalek Empire and their invasion of Earth was erased. Skaro also returned to normal and became ruined, as it was before the Daleks arrived.

From Doctor Who wiki, doesn't sound so bad really.

 

[starsuperion]

The Doctor discovered that the New Dalek Empire had invaded Earth in 1963. He went to the rebuilt city of Kaalann and discovered that the Daleks had found the Eye of Time, a Time Lord device that helped them alter Earth's timeline. Using the Eye, the Doctor was able to travel to Kaalann when it was ruined and before the Daleks arrived. He managed to sabotage the Daleks' vision, allowing him to deactivate the Eye. The timeline returned to normal and the New Dalek Empire and their invasion of Earth was erased. Skaro also returned to normal and became ruined, as it was before the Daleks arrived.

From Doctor Who wiki, doesn't sound so bad really.

well that seems pointless..

why go through all the trouble of that to just put the universe back the way it was?? What contribution to the overall universe of Doctor who does that whole scenerio accomplish? Nothing.. very disappointing.. if it changed something, good or bad, it would have atleast been for a reason or had a specific addition to the lore of Doctor who's universe.. but for it all to change back to the norm, and nothing gained from it except an entertaining romp, then why state that these games have anything to do with the series??

why not just leave it all a separate game.. fun, but with no real impact on the DW universe..

disappointing..

 

[Haggis and tatties]

I see it two ways..

1.The Daleks from VOTD found the eye of harmony and used it to alter time, the Dr comes along, kicks their ass and everything is back to normal.

2.Its a free throw away game made to entertain fans of the show young and old, and that's it.

You would give yourself a brain aneurysm if you tried to fit ever bit of Who into a perfect timeline.

 

[Starkers]

I see it two ways..

1.The Daleks from VOTD found the eye of harmony and used it to alter time, the Dr comes along, kicks their ass and everything is back to normal.

2.Its a free throw away game made to entertain fans of the show young and old, and that's it.

You would give yourself a brain aneurysm if you tried to fit ever bit of Who into a perfect timeline.

That probably explains the headache...

 

[HappyDayRiot]

well that seems pointless..

why go through all the trouble of that to just put the universe back the way it was?? What contribution to the overall universe of Doctor who does that whole scenerio accomplish? Nothing.. very disappointing.. if it changed something, good or bad, it would have atleast been for a reason or had a specific addition to the lore of Doctor who's universe.. but for it all to change back to the norm, and nothing gained from it except an entertaining romp, then why state that these games have anything to do with the series??

why not just leave it all a separate game.. fun, but with no real impact on the DW universe..

disappointing..

Substitute those two words for 'episodes' and you could be talking about 40% of all of Doctor Who stories. Or 100% of the radio plays and books.

Besides, the series can reference this game's events later. Less likely to mention radio/books/all those inconsequential episodes.

And it confirms Skaro still exists, unlike any previous episode. Therefore, not a total waste, is it?