The Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by tafkats, May 16, 2013.

  1. tafkats

    tafkats Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 17, 2003
    Angery and magnesium
    Was the Sisko/Picard scene in "Emissary" intended to be more than just a reflection of how the Sisko character might react in such a situation?

    Was the obvious hostility intended to place emotional distance between the two shows in the franchise ... explicitly giving them more separate identities by showing more conflict between each series' leading man than had been shown between any two 24th-century Starfleet officers to date?
  2. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

    Dec 2, 2001
    Derry, Maine
    It was a passing of the torch, with the twist that the new guy despised the first character.

    I think Sisko should have apologized at end though. I was quite surprised Picard didn't chew him out.
  3. tafkats

    tafkats Vice Admiral Admiral

    May 17, 2003
    Angery and magnesium
    I think the fact that Picard didn't chew him out, or anything like it, indicates how much of a lingering effect his time with the Borg has on him...
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    May 10, 2005
    Confederation of Earth
    And also that Picard isn't so petty that he would ignore Sisko's obvious pain. For all that Picard went through as Locutus, at least he got his life back at the end. Sisko lost Jennifer permanently.
  5. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Nov 22, 2001
    Ferguson, Missouri, USA
    I know it may upset Picard fans, but Sisko didn't need to apologize to Picard for how he originally felt--he was just being honest. For three years, Sisko had been grieving over the loss of his wife and he then meets the man whose face was forever etched in his mind as the architect of the worst moment of his life. Sisko can't just smile and pretend that it didn't happen--and Picard knew that too. Sisko had yet to undergo the journey to put that pain behind him and start living again, and once that was complete only then could he see Picard as Picard rather than Locutus.

    Heck, I imagine that there are still many in Starfleet who aren't Picard fans because of his time as Locutus, but at least Sisko got over it.
  6. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jan 5, 2005
    That was a great scene and much larger than just the two characters.

    Sure, we know the inside track of Picard's ordeal with the Borg and how it happened and what happened.

    But for the general public, and probably most of Starfleet, all they know is a starship captain was captured and turned by the Borg to fight against Federation forces and wipe out thousands of lives at Wolf 359. The starship captain was eventually rescued and returned to starship service.

    How much more would people really know?

    I'd bet Sisko wasn't the only one who lost loved ones and held a grudge against this starship captain Picard.

    Look at the reaction Kirk got from his collegues over the loss of Finney. Imagine the reaction Picard probably got over the loss of thousands.

    Sisko wasn't alone. And that scene showed a bit of what was maybe a lot of resentment and anger held by a lot of people in mourning over Wolf 359.
  7. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 22, 2001
    Burlington, VT, USA
    I suspect there are many who, consciously or otherwise, might believe on some level that if they'd been in Picard's shoes things might have turned out better as well.
  8. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 15, 2012
    I personally liked the scene between Sisko and Picard precisely because Sisko was someone outside of Picard's social circle. It showed how an average person who survived the events of Wolf 359 would react. It's not fair, but it's there. Picard's face was the one on the view screen when Sisko's wife dies, and how that face is ordering him to the equivalent of the ass end of the galaxy to live in a trashy space station turning his kid into a virtual refugee.

    As for an apology at the end? Nah... there seemed to be so much chemistry between the two and unsaid words in both of their scenes that an apology would just derail from that. Sisko's obvious competence and the fact that he had found a new direction for his life was enough for Sisko to look at Picard and see past own his pain.
  9. garak1

    garak1 Captain Captain

    Jan 1, 2003
    I liked the scene. I think it gave a nice connection between the two series. Avery Brooks and Patrick Stewart are such fine actors, they did it so well.

    The hostility was perfectly understandable, but Picard's diplomatic reaction was also so typical of his character.

    In reading these posts, I think it's a shame that there was never any reapproachment between the pair later in the serie after Sisko had dealt with his pain. What a show that could have been.
  10. Marcus Porcius Cato

    Marcus Porcius Cato Commander Red Shirt

    Jan 1, 2003
    According to Memory Alpha, the Season 1 ending was supposes to have another major crossover with TNG season 6. It would have been interesting to see how Sisko would have treated Picard then.
  11. NKemp3

    NKemp3 Commodore Commodore

    Feb 28, 2000
    It was a fantatstic idea to have Sisko not have warm feelings regarding a fellow Starfleet officer (even if those feelings would change at the end of the ep). It was bold for the writers to go there considering how popular Picard was and how Trek fans were not used to such conflict and hostility. In retrospect it hurt Sisko's character for the longest time because Trek fans couldn't appreciate the backstories and personal dynamics; Trek fans instead took sides. And Sisko was the loser for it. One guy who wrote some Trek tech book even mentioned the scene in the episode in his book and admitted he hated Sisko at first because he had been mean to "his hero" Picard. Good grief.
  12. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Nov 18, 2005
    I loved that scene. Sisko answering "in battle," was done with such force and the stricken look on Picard's face was priceless. I don't think an apology was necessary but perhaps implied in the sense that by the end of "Emissary" the healing process for Sisko had begun. I think the meeting with Picard really helped establish Sisko at a certain emotional place that would allow the arc to begin.

    Sisko's reaction was normal to me. I mean, we didn't get to see enough of how the rest of Starfleet or the Federation might have reacted to Picard. I'm surprised that we didn't get an episode after "Home" where Picard has to fight to remain captain of the Enterprise. At least First Contact returned to the idea of people being leery about Picard in the event of a Borg incident.

    It would've been great to see a Picard-Sisko team up in TNG Season 6. If they could've found a way to put Sisko into the "Descent" two-parter I probably would've liked it better. And I finally would've gotten to see Sisko v. Borg Round Two (even if it wasn't the actual Borg Collective).
  13. Mysterion

    Mysterion Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jun 28, 2001
    Suburban Mos Eisley
    That scene caused me to:

    1) Like Sisko almost immediately.
    2) Despise Picard more than i ever had.

    Picard comes off as elitist, dismissive, and condescending to Sisko in that scene. IMO. He prattles on about how Starfleet officers don't always have the luxury of having the assignments they desire, yadda, yadda, yadda, all the while sitting in his plush conference lounge playing with his tea set.
  14. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 15, 2006
    Star Trekkin Across the universe.
    Interestingly enough "Descent" was originally supposted to be a TNG/DS9 crossover.
  15. t_smitts

    t_smitts Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jun 11, 2005
    Big whoop. Picard earned his "plush conference lounge" with over 35 years of command experience and his own trauma at the hands of the Borg was scarring in its own right.
  16. Titus Andronicus

    Titus Andronicus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 22, 2004
    Augusta, GA
    WHAT?! That would have been very interesting. I wonder how that would have worked? Borg going after the wormhole?
  17. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

    Nov 20, 2012
    I think Sisko's response to Picard was perfectly reasonable. On one hand it was very unfair to blame Picard for Locutus' actions, but on the other hand, if you were in that battle it's impossible to avoid having those feelings.

    Like, if somebody had a stroke while driving a car and then the car ran over your wife. You would know intellectually that it wasn't the person's fault, but you'd still feel like it was.

    I think some of the hostile reaction toward Sisko at the beginning was due to the shock of seeing 'Our hero' criticized. Star Trek at that point had been a Starfleet love-fest, so seeing such hostility was unexpected. In retrospect it comes off much better.
  18. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 29, 2012
    Not a fan of Brooks in that show.


    The different tones in his character. I just would have liked more consistency. He was fine in the preamble, I had no problem with "Auuughhhhhhh we can't just LEAVE her!" and of course his stuff with Jake is always great. I wouldn't. If the guy was still alive, I'd make sure he carried no guilt over it.
  19. CobraCommander

    CobraCommander Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Jan 13, 2009
    Nor Cal
    As was shown by the prophets; Sisko had ceased to be linear. He was trapped at Wolf 359 seeing Locutus' smug face every night in his nightmares. By chosing to remain in Starfleet, Picard had to expect these kind of reactions to him. It just goes with the territory.
  20. RXTT

    RXTT Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Mar 25, 2013
    Gamma Quadrant
    The Sisko was upset in a way that Picard will never know. Picard never married (at that time), had not fathered any children, and did not have to think of how to raise a child without his spouse. Instead Picard has to live knowing he nearly commited genocide.