The Shredding of Tradition

[Miss Chicken]

I managed to stumble across this site which seems to be the site of a fundamentalist Australian.

I thought that I would start a thread about the topic of the page I linked to above. The page starts

Tradition is established by communal experience, and as such is the expressions of social wisdom. Since 1950 our society has abandoned the following traditional customs and manners:

• Murderers are executed.
• Suicide is a crime with failed suicides liable to be punished by the law.
• Justice must be seen ( the names of criminals and their accusers are no longer published).
• Men are expected to strive to behave like gentlemen, women like ladies.
• Ladies before gentlemen—a direction for males to always give way before females thereby ruling who should go through a door first etc.
• A gentleman always gives up his seat for a lady who is standing.
• Children who misbehave are smacked.
• Children should only speak to adults when spoken to by adults.
• Children should be seen and not heard by adults.
• Children are expected to surrender their seat so an adult can sit down.
• Unless people involved know each other intimately they should address each other by their title and surname —Mrs Smith, Master Brown, Miss Adams. (Titles have disappeared along with the use of surnames.)
• Strangers must address each other as Sir or Madam.
• People in authority are addressed as Sir or Madam.
• School children refer to each other by surname.

The list is much longer so I would suggest people read it all (or at least some of it) before they answer my question.

While I agree that some of these traditions are gone (and some of them needed to go IMO), others have not disappeared where I live. Now I concede this could be because I live in a backwater that might retain some traditions longer than other places but I am not sure so I would like people to tell me if any of the traditions listed as shredded on this page still exist where you live.

A couple of examples of traditions that haven't been lost where I am

A minute's silence has become a moment's silence.
Labels appear on the inside rear of a garments.
Neighbours are expected to be quiet.

I would also like people to tell me which traditions they belived deserved to be lost.

 

[Hermiod]

Well, the suicide one definitely needs to go.

 

[1001001]

I do like the idea of opening a door for a lady, and giving up a seat for a lady who's standing. That's just good manners.

I do agree justice should be seen as well. Public humiliation is a great thing.

The rest is crap.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Men, and children, still give up their seats for me. Not as often as they used to but still most of the time if the bus is crowded.

I don't know about elsewhere but here names of the accused are still published except in cases of rape, sexual assault etc when the giving of the accused's name would identify the victim.

 

[Captain Intrepid]

• Murderers are executed.
• Suicide is a crime with failed suicides liable to be punished by the law.
• Justice must be seen ( the names of criminals and their accusers are no longer published).
  [*]Men are expected to strive to behave like gentlemen, women like ladies.
  [*]Ladies before gentlemen—a direction for males to always give way before females thereby ruling who should go through a door first etc.
  [*]A gentleman always gives up his seat for a lady who is standing.
  
• Children who misbehave are smacked.
• Children should only speak to adults when spoken to by adults.
• Children should be seen and not heard by adults.
• Children are expected to surrender their seat so an adult can sit down.
• Unless people involved know each other intimately they should address each other by their title and surname —Mrs Smith, Master Brown, Miss Adams. (Titles have disappeared along with the use of surnames.)
  [*]Strangers must address each other as Sir or Madam.
  [*]People in authority are addressed as Sir or Madam.
• School children refer to each other by surname.

The list is much longer so I would suggest people read it all (or at least some of it) before they answer my question.[/QUOTE]

The one's that are bolded are things I still do for the most part. It's just being polite.

 

[Hermiod]

I don't know about elsewhere but here names of the accused are still published except in cases of rape, sexual assault etc when the giving of the accused's name would identify the victim.

Here the names of the accused in rape cases are broadcast to anyone who'll listen, guaranteeing that their life is ruined whether they did it or not.

 

[Canadave]

Well, here:

Names of convicted criminals are publishable, provided they are over 18.
We observe a minute's silence
Canadians tend to be ridiculously observant of red lights

And that's about all. The rest is ridiculously conservative, and some are just plain weird. Why should he care if newspaper headlines only capitalize the first word? And here if a tradesperson were to knock on the rear door, most people would be creeped out—generally, the back doors of North American homes are part of the owner's private property and not connected to the street.

Men, and children, still give up their seats for me. Not as often as they used to but still most of the time if the bus is crowded.

I've always thought that giving up a seat to an able-bodied adult women smacks of sexism. I'll gladly give up a seat on public transit to seniors, children, disabled people, etc, but to someone who has no trouble standing on their own? I've never seen why I should do that.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I've always thought that giving up a seat to an able-bodied adult women smacks of sexism. I'll gladly give up a seat on public transit to seniors, children, disabled people, etc, but to someone who has no trouble standing on their own? I've never seen why I should do that.

I am disabled though not obviously so. As a result I appreciate it when a man gives up a seat for me. I also appreciated it when I was pregnant or when I was carrying small children.

 

[Eric Cheung]

Many of these are simply factually incorrect. For example, the hair length thing is not a tradition. Men of the turn-of-the-century, of every class, and long before, had all kinds of hair lengths and facial hair. In fact there was a period early in the 20th century where sideburns were considered extremely conservative.

Also surname spellings were never consistent. This often had to do with the church spelling them to the best of their phonetic ability. In Shakespeare's time (still within the period of "Modern English") even words and grammar varied considerably from individual to individual. People back then had more important things to worry about, like their nagging stomach aches.

Men serving as sole breadwinner and women serving as sole housekeeper is also not a tradition broken only because of gender equality, but necessity. The economy of the past thirty years or so has only increased the disparity between income and cost-of-living expenses.

Hair dying and natural colors are contradictory concepts. All hair dye is unnatural. Especially when someone tries to dye their hair black or an older lady ends up with accidental blue hair.

But man, I'm so glad to see most of these traditions go away. Most of the ones listed revolve around oppression based on gender, class, or age. Some of these are based on a hatred of someone based, not only on something that he/she can't help but, on something for which that person should not feel ashamed.

Many of the others demand a closed mind. Why not have both a man and a woman cook meals? Wouldn't a more diverse menu be a good thing?

And you do not teach people through fear. Most "traditions" are based on such fear, a fear of upsetting someone older than you, or of a higher rank than you in some other context.

Technically I'm not sure if this person is advocating a return to all of these "traditions" but even if that were the case, one wonders why this person, or group, can't at least pick their battles and stop whining about aluminum cans.

 

[Goliath]

Unless people involved know each other intimately they should address each other by their title and surname —Mrs Smith, Master Brown, Miss Adams. (Titles have disappeared along with the use of surnames.)

That's a good practice that should be revived, IMHO.

I especially dislike being addressed by my first name by people I don't know. It's presumptuous, and phony, and rude.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Unless people involved know each other intimately they should address each other by their title and surname —Mrs Smith, Master Brown, Miss Adams. (Titles have disappeared along with the use of surnames.)

That's a good practice that should be revived, IMHO.

I especially dislike being addressed by my first name by people I don't know. It's presumptuous, and phony, and rude.

I am the opposite.

After my marriage broke up I went back to using my maiden name. I hate being called Mrs H..... because Mrs H...... is my mother. If people called me Ms H...., or even Miss H..... I wouldn't mind but because of my age I generally always get Mrs. I haven't been married for 25 years.

I much prefer people using my first name.

 

[Goliath]

I much prefer people using my first name.

Whatever you say, Chicken.

 

[Captain X]

I laugh at what many religious people think of as tradition, or that doing away with tradition is an inherently bad thing since it depends on what the "tradition" is. I see nothing wrong with doing away with the tradition that would limit women to being a housewife, and the only career opportunities being available to them limited to being a nurse, a teacher, or a secretary.

And I don't open doors and the like just for women, that would be sexist.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I open doors for both women and men especially if they are carrying something or pushing a pram.

When you catch a bus in Tasmania and get off via the back door (which on most buses you have to push open) it is common for the person in front of you to hold the door for you to get off and then you in turn hold the door open for the person following you. Most people, young and old, men and women, so this.

 

[Canadave]

I've always thought that giving up a seat to an able-bodied adult women smacks of sexism. I'll gladly give up a seat on public transit to seniors, children, disabled people, etc, but to someone who has no trouble standing on their own? I've never seen why I should do that.

I am disabled though not obviously so. As a result I appreciate it when a man gives up a seat for me. I also appreciated it when I was pregnant or when I was carrying small children.

Of course, the former applies to men, as well, and if either asked me if they could have my seat because they have trouble standing, I would gladly give it up. Similarly, I do so for pregnant women or women with small children.

 

[Hermiod]

I've always thought that giving up a seat to an able-bodied adult women smacks of sexism. I'll gladly give up a seat on public transit to seniors, children, disabled people, etc, but to someone who has no trouble standing on their own? I've never seen why I should do that.

I am disabled though not obviously so. As a result I appreciate it when a man gives up a seat for me. I also appreciated it when I was pregnant or when I was carrying small children.

If there was only one seat available I might let someone else have it. Given the general lack of courtesy shown, not just towards me, by my fellow Tube passengers, I am not typically feeling in a generous mood by the time I actually get on the train, however.

People can't wrap their brains around simple concepts like standing on the right hand side of the escalator, moving down the platform instead of crowding around by the entrances so one carriage ends up packed while the rest of the train is empty, letting people off the train first or not putting their bags on their laps or on the seat next to them.

 

[Cutter John]

Agreed, most of these qualify as common courtesy. And anything that keeps children from behaving like wild animals in public is a good thing.

But I've never understood the whole 'Suicide is a crime with failed suicides liable to be punished by the law' thing. WTF is that supposed to accomplish?

Sentencing then to psychological counseling or institutionalization in extreme cases maybe.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I have never practice train etiquette as there aren't passenger trains in Tasmania (outside of some small tourist trains). I imagine, however, that proper etiquette on a train would be almost identical to what should be practice when catching a bus.

 

[Canadave]

I have never practice train etiquette as there aren't passenger trains in Tasmania (outside of some small tourist trains). I imagine, however, that proper etiquette on a train would be almost identical to what should be practice when catching a bus.

It is indeed, in my experience. Especially here in Ottawa, where our Transitway functions much like a rail line for buses through most of the city.

 

[Hermiod]

I have never practice train etiquette as there aren't passenger trains in Tasmania (outside of some small tourist trains). I imagine, however, that proper etiquette on a train would be almost identical to what should be practice when catching a bus.

It's mainly identical in that nobody ever practices it properly.

The same people standing around me in a little semi-circle on an otherwise empty train platform every morning because they know that I know where to stand so the doors will be in front of me when the train arrives got old fast.

People in groups walking through narrow corridors between train platforms very slowly gets a bit annoying when you're trying to catch a train too.