Spoilers The Science Behind Discovery's Burn

[dupersuper]

The federation at this point still has only been around a mere millennia.
It’s not even close to the level of Iconia, T’Kon or Voth..

Is that an implausible expectation? Do we know how long it took the Iconians? The T'Kon? The Borg? The freaking Sikaris?

 

[fireproof78]

I think with the Q actively obsessed with humanity there might be a different downward pressure than faced by those other powers.

 

[publiusr]

How many technologies did Kirk and Co. find in TOS that were never mentioned again?

One explanation would be for TMP tech to make those finds obsolete...like anti-stasis equipment I saw in a blueprint once...

Section 31 or Gary Seven might have took them. Nice story there

 

[nic3636]

Ok so first off there's no way that author was actually involved in crafting the story. It's very clear all the story telling decisions had already been made and he was asked to retroactively justify it. That said, it's not a terrible explanation and while I did think the cause of the burn was underwhelming from a story telling standpoint, I appreciated that they at least devoted a couple of lines of technobabble to justify it, which is more than I can say for some of the other plot points this season.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Ok so first off there's no way that author was actually involved in crafting the story. It's very clear all the story telling decisions had already been made and he was asked to retroactively justify it. That said, it's not a terrible explanation and while I did think the cause of the burn was underwhelming from a story telling standpoint, I appreciated that they at least devoted a couple of lines of technobabble to justify it, which is more than I can say for some of the other plot points this season.

So you're saying the two authors, one of whom is a woman by the way, are lying? They weren't asked to " help the writers of Star Trek: Discovery tell this wonderful story by building a scientific background."? And you know this how?
Science advisors typically do exactly what was said, provide the real world science to go with the plots. Like other advisors they tech the tech. Crafting the stories tend to be out of their purview. Though some, like Naren Shankar do make the transition.

 

[Go-Captain]

If we go by this explanation then the story of Burnham hunting down the black boxes was pointless, like the music. If it was just a really loud subspace noise, on a specific frequency, then every single wide spectrum subspace receiver should have detected the Burn. That would mean all surviving installations and ships would know what caused the Burn, and the mystery would be what caused the subspace signal. It also means every surviving directional receiver would have a bearing on the source, and only two recordings would be needed to create a triangulation to nail the distance, assuming those receivers know their own positions.

That would lead to everyone knowing the source of the Burn just after it happens, and the source would have been investigated long before Burnham's arrival. That doesn't even get into the issue of how the resonance frequency of dilithium should be a known factor, and possibly something everyone already defended against.

This could have worked if Burnham had arrived just after the Burn. Then it could have been a case of the Discovery having the only safe and fast engine ready to go. Of course that would also flip the entire story line to the Federation falling apart, instead of a chance to rebuild it, and going dark was a major complaint about season 1.

As for the mutation I may be lost on that.

Radiation and chemicals can cause DNA letter (A,C,G,T) changes called “mutations”, but genes can also be turned on/ off or turned up/ down in how much product (e.g., RNA) they make in response to radiation or chemicals. Such changes in amounts of gene product produced, called changes in “gene expression,” make sense because many of his cells across his body will respond similarly to external inputs, whereas if changes happened from new mutations, then each of his cells would get distinct mutations, and chaos could ensue.

The DNA letters are unchanged but may be tagged with a molecule to signal how much product to make.

This sounds like she is saying Su'kal did not experience any mutations, and only gene expression increased. Doesn't that mean Kelpian's have a gene for resonating on the frequency of dilithium in response to over exposure to dilithium?

 

[nic3636]

So you're saying the two authors, one of whom is a woman by the way, are lying? They weren't asked to " help the writers of Star Trek: Discovery tell this wonderful story by building a scientific background."? And you know this how?
Science advisors typically do exactly what was said, provide the real world science to go with the plots. Like other advisors they tech the tech. Crafting the stories tend to be out of their purview. Though some, like Naren Shankar do make the transition.

Ok, first off, what does one of the authors being a woman have anything to do with it? Second, I'm not saying they are lying. I'm speculating that they were brought in after the story was finished to retroactively explain it (which still qualifies as "helping the writers tell this wonderful story by building a scientific background"). The article very clearly reads that way.

 

[fireproof78]

So you're saying the two authors, one of whom is a woman by the way, are lying? They weren't asked to " help the writers of Star Trek: Discovery tell this wonderful story by building a scientific background."? And you know this how?
Science advisors typically do exactly what was said, provide the real world science to go with the plots. Like other advisors they tech the tech. Crafting the stories tend to be out of their purview. Though some, like Naren Shankar do make the transition.

In case you have noticed the current crop of Trek writers are nothing but filthy liars who hate everything Star Trek stands for!

I joke, slightly.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Ok, first off, what does one of the authors being a woman have anything to do with it? Second, I'm not saying they are lying. I'm speculating that they were brought in after the story was finished to retroactively explain it (which still qualifies as "helping the writers tell this wonderful story by building a scientific background"). The article very clearly reads that way.

You said "he", from which I concluded you might not have even read the by-line.
Erin MacDonald has been working with the show for a while now. They didn't just look her up in the phonebook after the script was written. She's also a long time fan.

 

[nic3636]

You said "he", from which I concluded you might not have even read the by-line.
Erin MacDonald has been working with the show for a while now. They didn't just look her up in the phonebook after the script was written. She's also a long time fan.

Oh got it, my fault then. The pronouns get me every time. I will say though, I was honestly impressed that she was able to turn that into a semi-plausible scientific explanation.

 

[NCC-73515]

If we go by this explanation then the story of Burnham hunting down the black boxes was pointless, like the music. If it was just a really loud subspace noise, on a specific frequency, then every single wide spectrum subspace receiver should have detected the Burn. That would mean all surviving installations and ships would know what caused the Burn, and the mystery would be what caused the subspace signal. It also means every surviving directional receiver would have a bearing on the source, and only two recordings would be needed to create a triangulation to nail the distance, assuming those receivers know their own positions.

That would lead to everyone knowing the source of the Burn just after it happens, and the source would have been investigated long before Burnham's arrival. That doesn't even get into the issue of how the resonance frequency of dilithium should be a known factor, and possibly something everyone already defended against.

This could have worked if Burnham had arrived just after the Burn. Then it could have been a case of the Discovery having the only safe and fast engine ready to go. Of course that would also flip the entire story line to the Federation falling apart, instead of a chance to rebuild it, and going dark was a major complaint about season 1.

As for the mutation I may be lost on that.

This sounds like she is saying Su'kal did not experience any mutations, and only gene expression increased. Doesn't that mean Kelpian's have a gene for resonating on the frequency of dilithium in response to over exposure to dilithium?

Apparently, gene expression affecting vocal cord development was changed by mutations.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I loved the turbolift funhouse, I loved it. But surely how did that scene pass the production people? They didn't realize the gigantic mistake they made?

The production people probably made it and don't think it's a mistake

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

The production people probably made it and don't think it's a mistake

Sorry deleted my post because this is the wrong thread

 

[oberth]

Shatner's impersonation of a horse left much to be desired. Or was that intentional and forced on Kirk by Parmen as well?

being kirk he tries to fight it?

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I'm loving the TOS reruns in the afternoon here. Double episodes followed by repeats of Mission Impossible.

 

[Go-Captain]

Apparently, gene expression affecting vocal cord development was changed by mutations.

I think I’m just not going to understand the explanation. Either I’m missing something or it’s missing something.

 

[nic3636]

I think I’m just not going to understand the explanation. Either I’m missing something or it’s missing something.

I think it might have worked better as a plot for a stand-alone episode. As others have mentioned, stuff like this that doesn't totally add up has happened many times in Trek before, but it's typically either a minor plot point or contained to a single episode.

In this case, they made the burn the central premise of the season and stretched it out over 13 episodes. The payoff was really underwhelming given how much suspense they built up around it.

 

[NCC-73515]

I think I’m just not going to understand the explanation. Either I’m missing something or it’s missing something.

It's comparable to intron activation turning Barclay into a spider

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

I can imagine the story writers pitching a general idea, which the science advisors for to review and provide a possible scientific background to.
The writers then used this for the finer story details.
Probably multiple back and forths.
I doubt the advice process is a one way street.

at the end of the day the writers will make compromises in favor of plot.

the important part is that their are science concepts as an underlying foundation, which get public exposure.
People looking up the stuff are able to make the connection.
Because of the story connection, they will have emotional investment in the science concepts.
This is what inspires young people to study the stuff for real later, or just pass a physics 101 exam.

 

[Go-Captain]

I think it might have worked better as a plot for a stand-alone episode. As others have mentioned, stuff like this that doesn't totally add up has happened many times in Trek before, but it's typically either a minor plot point or contained to a single episode.

In this case, they made the burn the central premise of the season and stretched it out over 13 episodes. The payoff was really underwhelming given how much suspense they built up around it.

That might be it, since I'm pretty certain that without the Burn I would have enjoyed the Su'kal plot without reservation. Then it's just a matter of Su'kal adapting to radiation exposure, and the explanation for that alone is functional enough. With the Burn though, what was the point?

Was it showing the Federation failing individuals with Su'kal and his family as the example? They attempt to set that up with Ni'var after saying the SB19 thing wasn't the only reason for leaving, but don't actually explain what the other reasons were. The Andorian rebel implies something similar, but we never find out if it's just Chain propaganda or if it posses a seed of truth.

It's comparable to intron activation turning Barclay into a spider

Barclay Syndrome is definitely unmitigated space magic. I'm trying to think of why I can accept that and not the Su'kal dilithium connection. It might be the setup or preconceived notions of how things should work.