The Saratoga (etc) bridge sets

[Lance]

In TVH, we see the bridges of various incapacitated Starships calling in to Starfleet Command, most notably the Saratoga. Now it looks like all of these bridges were the same one (of course), and what we see of the Saratoga is clearly a reconfiguration of the Enterprise bridge.

My question is: was it the modified Ent-A bridge seen at the end of the movie?

The Saratoga scenes are all lit very darkly, so it's kinda hard to see whether the decor matches the 'all white' look of the Ent-A at the end of the movie. But one thing that is clear is that the Saratoga bridge set is evidently fitted out with Okudagrams rather than physical switches.

Is it a reconfiguration of the Ent-A we see at the end of the movie? Or is the Saratoga actually some kind of halfway house between the I-III bridge and the one seen at the end of IV?

 

[SpHeRe31459]

It's derived from the original I-III bridge before the production team updated and brightened it for the end sequence of TVH.

Memory-Alpha says the Saratoga's bridge was a re-use of the Grissom bridge, which was a redress of the I-III bridge itself.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Saratoga_(NCC-1887)

The bridge of the Saratoga was the reuse of the Grissom bridge from Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, which was in fact a reuse of the Enterprise bridge.

 

[Robert Comsol]

As it looks to me, the story may be rather interesting (I don't have all the facts, though).

In the context of the USS Grissom tech thread I posted some time ago I noticed that the Enterprise bridge had been somewhat rearranged, i.e. both the captain's chair and the helm/nav console are much, much closer to the wall panels: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0291.jpg

Interestingly, this is obviously exactly the same arrangement we see on the bridge of the Saratoga: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tvhhd/tvhhd0206.jpg

It could seem that after they were "done" with the Enterprise scenes in ST III, they rearranged the set (no longer needed?) to stand in for Grissom's bridge - and left it as it was.

At the beginning of ST IV they reused the Grissom set to now stand in for the Saratoga.

By the end of ST IV they patched the remaining set pieces back together. I've always wondered about the crappy floor carpeting, it may just be be a side effect of the re-assembly: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tvhhd/tvhhd2278.jpg

Bob

 

[Tribble puncher]

As it looks to me, the story may be rather interesting (I don't have all the facts, though).

In the context of the USS Grissom tech thread I posted some time ago I noticed that the Enterprise bridge had been somewhat rearranged, i.e. both the captain's chair and the helm/nav console are much, much closer to the wall panels: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0291.jpg

Interestingly, this is obviously exactly the same arrangement we see on the bridge of the Saratoga: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tvhhd/tvhhd0206.jpg

It could seem that after they were "done" with the Enterprise scenes in ST III, they rearranged the set (no longer needed?) to stand in for Grissom's bridge - and left it as it was.

At the beginning of ST IV they reused the Grissom set to now stand in for the Saratoga.

By the end of ST IV they patched the remaining set pieces back together. I've always wondered about the crappy floor carpeting, it may just be be a side effect of the re-assembly: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tvhhd/tvhhd2278.jpg

Bob

Wow never realized how bad the flooring looked, obviously they were banking on you riding high on the fact that Kirk and the gang were back seeking out new life and such...that set really reminds me of the old ST:TMP bridge playset...the bridge literally looks like a giant piece of Vacuformed plastic.

 

[BillJ]

It looks like the Saratoga is using the same bridge chairs as the new Enterprise-A bridge.

 

[Richard Baker]

At least the chairs were not Grissom pink....

 

[Robert Comsol]

Grabbed my TMP bridge blueprints to figure out which consoles had been recycled and re-positioned.

Viewscreen is "12 o'clock", so at 9 o'clock we now have both on the Grissom and Saratoga bridge what used to be Spock's science officer's station (at 6 o'clock in TMP).

The other console at 8 o'clock on both bridges used to be the damage and repair station (2 o'clock in TMP).

What we see at the end of ST IV only seems to be Uhura's original TMP communications station, the upper horizontal screen gives it away as the original science officer's station.

And behind the captain's chair we now see the damage and repair station set segment.

Indeed, it almost looks that by the time of ST IV they only had those two studio set elements at their disposal plus the bridge turbo lift segment and another one seen behind the Saratoga's captain in the "going down"-scene (my best guess: internal security station formerly at 3 o'clock in TMP, in the screencap the one with the four circular orange monitors).

Bob

 

[2takesfrakes]

Wow never realized how bad the flooring looked, obviously they were banking on you riding high on the fact that Kirk and the gang were back seeking out new life and such...that set really reminds me of the old ST:TMP bridge playset...the bridge literally looks like a giant piece of Vacuformed plastic.

I believe this "blank slate" look was probably intentional. Obviously, Nimoy knew Shatner was directing V and probably didn't even know himself what the new bridge would end up looking like, yet.

Personally, I hate those metallic pylon things covering up the seams between the pie-wedge wall pieces of Enterprise-A. The Klingon Bird of Prey's bridge was similarly painted white, of course, for Shatner entering that cheezy dream sequence.

But, wow ... when they blew up the Enterprise, they really meant to ditch that old TMP set, which is unfortunate, because I really hate everything Herman Zimmerman ever did for STAR TREK, other than the Enterprise D. Mike Okuda's stuff was way overused and overdone throughout the franchise, after TNG. I know I am in the minority ...

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Mike Okuda's stuff was way overused and overdone throughout the franchise, after TNG. I know I am in the minority ...

I agree with you. It did get a bit visually monotonous, all alien ship interiors looked the same, with all those Klingon/Cardassian looking control panels. You kind of knew what to expect before you even saw them.

 

[Shawnster]

Mike Okuda's stuff was way overused and overdone throughout the franchise, after TNG. I know I am in the minority ...

I agree with you. It did get a bit visually monotonous, all alien ship interiors looked the same, with all those Klingon/Cardassian looking control panels. You kind of knew what to expect before you even saw them.

"I can tell what alien species you are by the choice of your computer's color palette."

 

[drt]

Indeed, it almost looks that by the time of ST IV they only had those two studio set elements at their disposal plus the bridge turbo lift segment and another one seen behind the Saratoga's captain in the "going down"-scene (my best guess: internal security station formerly at 3 o'clock in TMP, in the screencap the one with the four circular orange monitors).

Bob

There's this photo of Majel and Gene which appears to be circa Voyage Home and shows what I would guess would be 3-4 o'clock.

Although, of interest, this shot seems to be missing the big chrome wedges between stations.

 

[Robert Comsol]

^^ Judging by the (new) okudagrams this is obviously ST IV and probably shows the science officer's station at 4 o'clock where it had been in ST II.

Uhura's communications stations got an upper screen added for ST II, thus what we saw on Grissom's and Saratoga's bridge was probably not the science station, but Uhura's.

But if the communications station and the damage and repair station (6 o'clock in ST II) had been disassembled after the Enterprise scenes in ST III (to be put to use for Grissom and Saratoga), they were apparently put back into their original ST II configuration for the final scene in ST IV.

Putting these back could have been a problem, hence the big chrome wedges (to cover up ruptured seams) and the crappy floor.
The shot with Majel and Gene could suggest that the starboard side bridge elements remained untouched during the procedure.

If anyone has the full story, please let us hear it!

Bob

 

[Firebird]

Uhura's communications stations got an upper screen added for ST II, thus what we saw on Grissom's and Saratoga's bridge was probably not the science station, but Uhura's.

That upper screen was present during TMP. It was added after Phase II was canceled, & the sets were renovated for TMP.

 

[Robert Comsol]

^^ Thanks for the correction. Looks like Sheet # 5 of the Official TMP blueprints I relied upon was then based on Phase II concepts. Interesting!

Here is a TMP screencap: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmphd0408.jpg

What's extremely good to notice is that the floor carpeting consists of these square plastic or PVC floor tiles. This re-emphasizes the impression that parts of the set had been taken apart in ST III (and the PVC tiles had been removed), but the earlier removed floor tiles were then "somehow" re-attached at the end of ST IV: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tvhhd/tvhhd2278.jpg

Bob

 

[cardinal biggles]

Here's an interesting behind-the-scenes photo of that set's transformation into the TNG battle bridge:

http://trekcore.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tngset3.jpg

It was taken by Jim Fong, an illustrator with Galoob, when he got a set tour while prepping for their 1988 action figure line. You can still see the PVC flooring, and the outlines of TMP-style display fixtures with TNG-style Okudagrams in them, but the small console from the TMP-era is gone. (Okudagrams would replace the wall lighting grates when they used the set again for "The Arsenal of Freedom".) The center platforms, where Conn and Ops stations have replaced the big helm console, and the captain's chair is right behind, look unchanged. The turbolift alcoves are the same, albeit with a new, TNG-style car in place. What's really amazing is how light the walls are; most of the set's darkness in both episodes seems to have been accomplished with lighting.

 

[drt]

As I vauely recall, the bridge as built for TMP didn't come apart in sections as it did for the original series until it was cut-up before TWOK. I guess Wise felt it gave everything a more cramped "realistic" feel.

 

[trevanian]

As I vauely recall, the bridge as built for TMP didn't come apart in sections as it did for the original series until it was cut-up before TWOK. I guess Wise felt it gave everything a more cramped "realistic" feel.

No, Joe Jennings had it built 'wild' for phase 2 way before Wise came on or had him replaced, but then Wise had it bolted together (only to have to make a hole in the wall for the wormhole wide shot past Chekov.)

 

[trevanian]

Mike Okuda's stuff was way overused and overdone throughout the franchise, after TNG. I know I am in the minority ...

I agree with you. It did get a bit visually monotonous, all alien ship interiors looked the same, with all those Klingon/Cardassian looking control panels. You kind of knew what to expect before you even saw them.

"I can tell what alien species you are by the choice of your computer's color palette."

It's simplistic, but it is part of the visual storytelling shorthand. Brooke Breton told me that by TUC they were all really locked in with respect to Fed-look graphics vs Klingon ones, etc.

 

[trevanian]

^^ Thanks for the correction. Looks like Sheet # 5 of the Official TMP blueprints I relied upon was then based on Phase II concepts. Interesting!

Here is a TMP screencap: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmphd0408.jpg

What's extremely good to notice is that the floor carpeting consists of these square plastic or PVC floor tiles. This re-emphasizes the impression that parts of the set had been taken apart in ST III (and the PVC tiles had been removed), but the earlier removed floor tiles were then "somehow" re-attached at the end of ST IV: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tvhhd/tvhhd2278.jpg

Bob

The DP and prod designer lightened the floor by 30% in order to keep the contrast levels from being too high (an error on their part IMO) for SFS. Maybe this is how they did it.

 

[SpHeRe31459]

^^ Judging by the (new) okudagrams this is obviously ST IV and probably shows the science officer's station at 4 o'clock where it had been in ST II.

Uhura's communications stations got an upper screen added for ST II, thus what we saw on Grissom's and Saratoga's bridge was probably not the science station, but Uhura's.

But if the communications station and the damage and repair station (6 o'clock in ST II) had been disassembled after the Enterprise scenes in ST III (to be put to use for Grissom and Saratoga), they were apparently put back into their original ST II configuration for the final scene in ST IV.

Putting these back could have been a problem, hence the big chrome wedges (to cover up ruptured seams) and the crappy floor.
The shot with Majel and Gene could suggest that the starboard side bridge elements remained untouched during the procedure.

If anyone has the full story, please let us hear it!

Bob

Memory-Alpha says that only the portions of the bridge needed for the camera angles shown at the end of ST IV were updated/repainted. Not sure if that fits with the images/investigation presented in this thread, considering the two stations removed for Grissom are what we see at the end of ST IV, we don't see the science station at all, yet that PR image of Gene and Majel clearly shows it was updated too.
Seems to me if they really wanted to mostly leave the set alone, they should have shot it from the opposite angle so they wouldn't have had to put both stations back.