To my understanding, yes the idea of Shatner's was to have God turn out to be the Devil. Like it or not, it would have ripped fandom apart had it happened the way he intended. For better or worse, we got a superalien with no real backstory instead. I think I would have preferred it being Satan as I have never had any problem being both a Christian and a Star Trek fan and that would have made quite a story.
The Salvation of the Final Frontier
- Thread starter Gojira
- Start date
What if indeed....
An interesting viewpoint....
Come to think of it, we can't rule out the possibility that they actually did find God.
When asked for proof, he didn't provide proof, and responded to disbelief with punishment. That's very much consistent with the behavior of the Christian God.
Of course, this being apparently isn't omniscient and omnipotent, and the God of Abraham is presumed to be omniscient and omnipotent because... uh, because He said so, I guess. Well, maybe He lied. Why couldn't this being have deceived Abraham and Moses and the other prophets the same way he deceived Sybok?
When asked for proof, he didn't provide proof, and responded to disbelief with punishment. That's very much consistent with the behavior of the Christian God.
Of course, this being apparently isn't omniscient and omnipotent, and the God of Abraham is presumed to be omniscient and omnipotent because... uh, because He said so, I guess. Well, maybe He lied. Why couldn't this being have deceived Abraham and Moses and the other prophets the same way he deceived Sybok?
Doctor Who did a story with the Devil. It would have been interesting to see how Trek fandom reacted though, you're right.
"star trek meets the omen," or "star trek meets the exorcist"
a bit too silly I think
you're right, I forgot about that. One of the better TAS episodes, too. A more benign depiction of course, but yeah, you're right about the lack of it being an issue.
The thing is, the idea of a man going to extremes to find God is a valid story, but it should have been about the journey and the conflict over if it's wise or even possible where the drama lies. And that's the real problem with the Final Frontier: it's really not about anything. There's lot of thematic threads in there, but most of them don't go through the narrative or interweave in any sort of meaningful way.
I agree, the story should have been about the journey and not the actual finding of "God" in whatever form. Still, I find the themes touched on in this feature to be compelling enough to warrant a movie of it's own. I still look at The Final Frontier with a kid's eyes, so that no doubt clouds my perception but not my appreciation of this film.
Agreed. It's ultimately a very confusing film. FF can't decide whether to be a serious drama concerning both a physical and philosophical search for God, while also touching upon the bonds of friendship and emotional pain...or a slapstick comedy. The serious dramatic moments, that at times are done well (such as the scene where McCoy deals with the death of his father) lose their impact when the movie takes a complete right turn from drama to cartoonish antics.
It's a pity too. In my opinion this is the second worst Trek film, with Nemesis being first. Yet it has one of my favorite moments regarding Bones, the scene where Sybok shows Bones deciding to euthanize his father. It's a very powerful and emotional moment that shows us all a little more about the mindset and character of Bones. Shame it occurs in the same movie with the fart jokes and naked fan dance.
but all Trek movies have combined humor with more serious themes. Is TUC any less of a great movie because it has that stupid Uhura translating scene? Is FC less of a gritty action movie because it has the "drunken Troi" scene?
Are you saying there should've been no comedy in TFF? No thank you. They tried to do a Trek movie with almost no comedy(TMP) and I wasn't a fan of the results.
Plus, TFF was coming off of the success of TVH, which was a straight comedy, so not a surprise lots was included in this one.
Thank you, Sonak. I agree with you on the humor being an integral part of the classic series movies. TMP was the one exception, and it really remains hard for me to watch because it has no humor.
In my opinion, yes. They aren't fatal flaws, but they are flaws, and diminish the films to some degree.
The problem with TFF is not that there is comedy, but that most of the comedy doesn't work.
Being funny is good. Trying to be funny and failing is bad.
I agree that TFF had a higher miss-to-hit ratio for its comedy than the previous Trek films. But still, some of it worked for me. The fart joke, Uhura fan dance, and Scotty head bump were all awkward, yes. But some of the more natural humor, in terms of just the verbal back and forth, worked for me. They should have done more of that then the humor that came from humiliating the characters.
I'm not saying that Trek movies shouldn't have comedic elements. I don't have a problem with a drama movie that has some humorous elements that occur naturally within the story.
The problem with FF was that it was trying to be both a drama and a comedy at once. You can have a drama that has some funny moments, or a comedy with serious moments, but this wasn't the case with FF. It was trying to be both.
FC, overall, is a drama. There are some moments of levity, such as the Troi drinking scene, but the whole tone of the movie is generally a somber one. TVH is a comedy with some serious moments, but generally it tends to be one of the more lighthearted films. In both these films, the drama and comedic elements are organic to the storyline, they happen naturally and don't break the flow and tone of the film. With FF it almost seems at times that we have two films slapped together, a comedy and a drama, and neither fare well. It doesn't pick an general tone, it seems to gravitate wildly between slapstick humor to serious, emotional moments without any smooth transition.
I think the humor versus drama question was perhaps best handled onscreen in The Wrath of Khan as opposed to the much later efforts of STV and VI.
That's untrue. TMP has a few funny moments, fer instance:
DECKER (about the Probe): Don't interfere with it!
CHEKOV (only recently back after being burned): Absolutely I will not interfere!
KIRK: Full sensor scan, Mr. Spock. They can't expect us not to look them over now.
DECKER: Now that we're looking down their throat.
KIRK: Right, now that we've got them exactly where they want us.
er, I don't think that second example was meant as humor. The McCoy line about Spock being "as warm and sociable as ever" is pretty funny, though.
but overall, the point is that TMP has about the least intentional humor of any Trek movie.
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