The Runaways (Marvel/Hulu)

[Reverend]

I just happened to have read through all the Runaways issues on Marvel Unlimited recently and there were actually at least one or two moments where it was referred to as *A* Staff of One. Which sounds weird, obviously, but there is precedent.

Well the "One" part refers to the way each spell can only be used once (which is pretty goofy if you ask me) but I could have sworn it was said to be a one of a kind at some point. Not that it's impossible for two comics to contradict each other of course.

 

[Christopher]

"A Staff of One" sounds like a very lean small business.

 

[Turtletrekker]

THE RUNAWAYS VS. DOCTOR DOOM!?!?

Haha! No.

But Doom actor Julian McMahon has joined the cast.

(Although I love how the announcement from Marvel makes no mention of his work in the FF movies.)

 

[JD]

Former Dr. Doom actor Julian McMahon has join the cast of Runaways as Jonah. All the description says is, " While his origins and ultimate intentions are unknown, McMahon will be a pivotal play in the Runways' rebellion against their parents".

 

[Turtletrekker]

Reviews of the first two episodes are in and there isn't a negative word in the bunch!

There are mentions of "significant changes", but there always are, so that doesn't worry me yet.

Spoiler: Spoiler for comics

The only real change they could make that would upset me would be the identity of the traitor within the group.

"Gert will be everybody's favorite"? Check.

"Great Teenage mystery much like CW's Riverdale."

 

[kirk55555]

"Great Teenage mystery much like CW's Riverdale."

Whoever wrote that needs to look up the dictionary definition of "great" Anyway, "significant changes" mean I can safely ignore this. Although since Hulu is always trying to get me to try a free week of its service I'll probably give this a hate watch some time, but I like the comic enough that even my morbid curiosity about bad comic adaptations is probably not worth the pain of trying an episode.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Kirk, you are possibly the only person in the world who could wade through all of those great reviews and come away with that reaction.

FWIW, the person who commented on the "significant changes" is a huge fan of the comics who also said, "but the spirit of the comic is alive and well". However, I know better than to try and influence your decision after you've found the one piece of barely relevant information that you based your opinion on.

 

[kirk55555]

Kirk, you are possibly the only person in the world who could wade through all of those great reviews and come away with that reaction.

FWIW, the person who commented on the "significant changes" is a huge fan of the comics who also said, "but the spirit of the comic is alive and well". However, I know better than to try and influence your decision after you've found the one piece of barely relevant information that you based your opinion on.

There is no such thing as "staying true to the spirit" of the comic if you make significant changes. The Runaways was awesome, literally any change just takes away from the quality. They already ruined Molly, so making more changes is just twisting the knife. If it was good, it would actually adapt the damn comic. But, like all bad adaptations, the writers/producers/directors don't respect the source material and instead make their own thing but just steal the name to trick people into watching. I lost all patience with that bullshit years ago. As for reviews, some people gave, for example, movies like Batman v Superman and Logan good reviews, so the opinion of anyone who praises a superhero show that massively changes stuff is completely useless as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Significant changes could simply mean conforming it to fit in the previously established Marvel Cinematic Universe. Obviously, Molly is not going to be a mutant. Perhaps her parents are geneticists or study powers, or work with radiation, which could be considered a "significant change". I tend to doubt that Gert's parents will be Time Travelers as that concept has barely been touched upon in the MCU, so they would have to make "significant changes" to the origin of Old Lace.

 

[Reverend]

Obviously, Molly is not going to be a mutant. Perhaps her parents are geneticists or study powers, or work with radiation, which could be considered a "significant change".

I was thinking a simpler solution might be fish oil pills...

I tend to doubt that Gert's parents will be Time Travelers as that concept has barely been touched upon in the MCU, so they would have to make "significant changes" to the origin of Old Lace.

That is a bit of a tough one to get around. I mean, sure, there's time travel but so far it seems like it takes an infinity stone to pull it off and no way they have access to the Eye of Agamotto.
Maybe Old Lace is genetically engineered? Or a *really* elaborate robot? Can they use the Savage Land? Because that would be neat.

 

[kirk55555]

Significant changes could simply mean conforming it to fit in the previously established Marvel Cinematic Universe. Obviously, Molly is not going to be a mutant. Perhaps her parents are geneticists or study powers, or work with radiation, which could be considered a "significant change". I tend to doubt that Gert's parents will be Time Travelers as that concept has barely been touched upon in the MCU, so they would have to make "significant changes" to the origin of Old Lace.

Removing Time Travel is BS. There is nothing in the MCU to say Time Travel can't happen, and honestly I bet we'll eventually get an MCU movie that includes it. I can see not making Molly a mutant, that's not even that big a change (heck, its not the really bad change they already made to Molly). But changing Gert's parents would be over the line, and if the show had significant changes I'm sure they went far past it.

I'm done having anything more positive then morbid curiosity about hero shows made by people who are either too incompetent to actually adapt something well or too pretentious to do anything but a totally original pile of crap they made. Heck, incompetence is actually preferable to the other scenario. Its like how I can watch that really terrible Generation X pilot from the 90s and enjoy it in a "so bad its good" way while, for comparison, hoping that the people who made Legion get locked in a deep, dark hole even if Legion is technically a better made show. Its 2017. Adapt the damn property correctly or make your own. Don't steal a property and then change it to make it basically an original property with a stolen name.

It doesn't help that I really liked the Runaways comic (the whole run too, not just the part written by the original writer). As much as I loathe Legion, since I'm only very mildly a fan of the comic character it pisses me off by its completely nonsensical story and terrible writing more then how badly it screws over the title character. But this show just pisses me off in every conceivable way. It deserved better. Its like Inhumans, actually. Some B-list Marvel stuff I really liked is getting ruined by people who don't deserve to work as interns on the production. Hell, Runaways will probably be worse, and I say that as someone who, at this point, considers the Inhumans to be a complete "fuck you" to fans of the characters.

 

[Turtletrekker]

New review from comicbook.com stresses faithfulness to the comic and the characters. There is again mention of changes, although other than the word "Mutant", no specifics are revealed. However, the fact that Molly and Gert are the one's mentioned in regard to the changes lends credence to my theory that they are just conforming it to the established MCU.

From the review...

First of all, the story makes a few changes to those initial issues of Runaways that came out over a decade ago. These are still the same six characters we came to know and love in the comic series. Some of the changes are minor, others more significant, but the heart of Runaways beats true in these episodes. Nico, Gert, Molly, Alex, Chase, and Karolina leap from the pages, though their circumstances might be altered.

Some have called it “Marvel’s version of Riverdale,” and while it’s not entirely inaccurate it’s also not the fairest comparison. The series has more in common with Schwartz and Savage’s previous work on The OC and Gossip Girl, all while bracing the fantastic elements of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Another welcome addition is the focus on the parents, who are given further development in these episodes. The series seems to be exploring their personalities and motivations as much as it will the children, but rest assured the Runaways are the stars of the show. It will at least add another layer in the generational conflict, perhaps adding more gray in the battle between ‘good’ and ‘evil.’

The amount of development given to the parents allows them to come across in more than one note, which will only serve to heighten the drama when the inevitable showdown between the Pride and the Runaways occurs.

The acting and casting are pretty spot on. Some characters have minor changes, most notably Allegra Acosta as Molly who is not as young as she is in the comic and therefore not as wily. She’s still the curious troublemaker, though it comes across as endearing. Nico, Karolina, and (especially) Gert are faithful portrayals. Lyrika Okano, Virginia Gardner, and Ariela Barer play their respective roles very well. Rhenzy Feliz as Alex is slightly more morose. Gregg Sulkin’s portrayal of Chase is ever the asshole, though there is a sense of untapped potential from the outset.

• It’s surprisingly faithful to the comic book. Whether you thought a plot was too ridiculous or the effects would be too expensive for a show, IT’S NOT. It’s in the show.
• The visual effects were not done, but they have a clear idea about how they want to portray them. Go read those first 18 comics if you’re curious…Character dynamics are spot on, with one MAJOR change to Molly and Gert’s relationship.
• Fans of Karolina Dean will be satisfied
• So Marvel and Hulu aren’t able to mention the concept, or even the word, of ‘mutants,’ but Runaways manages to use Molly in a way that remains true to the character

 

[kirk55555]

So Molly is nothing like the character (which had been obvious for awhile, to be fair), and the show is compared to absolute shit like Riverdale, Gossip Girl and the OC. Its also adding "gray", which is ridiculous. Sometimes things are black and white. I'd argue that Runaways needs that. Their parents are some of the most foul, violently disturbed people in the Marvel universe. They are some of the worst of the worst, people that even the average villain would consider evil to the core, and so powerful that literally no villain could even step foot in California without their permission. The Kingpin would look like Captain America next to them. But, yeah, there are definitely shades of gray about them

Also, those last two show comparisons are outright offensive as a fan of Runaways. Its like making a Batman tv show that's somehow just like the Jersey Shore, except that would probably be less terrible then Runaways in the style of garbage like The OC and Gossip Girl. Those shows are rancid piles of crap made for an audience that, well, weren't exactly picky about the quality of their entertainment. The shows are also so far away from superhero shows that, like I said, Jersey Shore Batman would be more appropriate. Hell, Runaways in the style of Toddlers & Tiara's honestly, with no hyper boyle, makes more sense the Runways in the style of those two shows.

I swear, its like the TV division has decided to fuck with the actual MCU by making as many shitty shows as possible. At least with crap like The Gifted and Legion athose shows are about what you'd expect from the generally incompetent FOX. The MCU is supposed to have better standards, except the TV division isn't controlled by the actually talented people running the movies so its just 80% crap. Its like the pre-Blade/Spider-Man/X-Men era of Superhero movies. Just use the license with absolute disdain for the source material and hope you can hook some nerds into giving you some money.

 

[JD]

I really, really, really don't get you.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

So Molly is nothing like the character (which had been obvious for awhile, to be fair), and the show is compared to absolute shit like Riverdale, Gossip Girl and the OC. Its also adding "gray", which is ridiculous. Sometimes things are black and white. I'd argue that Runaways needs that. Their parents are some of the most foul, violently disturbed people in the Marvel universe. They are some of the worst of the worst, people that even the average villain would consider evil to the core, and so powerful that literally no villain could even step foot in California without their permission. The Kingpin would look like Captain America next to them. But, yeah, there are definitely shades of gray about them

I read through the entire backlog of Runaways just a few weeks ago. This is not even remotely true. The Pride are narcissicists and nihilists, but there are shades of grey throughout their story. They allow themselves to be recruited originally because they're told what they're doing will save the world (and themselves, of course). They literally consider themselves heroes. The writers also went out of their way repeatedly to show how much they loved their kids and were willing to sacrifice for them and believed that they were doing the right thing for their children's future.

 

[kirk55555]

I read through the entire backlog of Runaways just a few weeks ago. This is not even remotely true. The Pride are narcissicists and nihilists, but there are shades of grey throughout their story. They allow themselves to be recruited originally because they're told what they're doing will save the world (and themselves, of course). They literally consider themselves heroes. The writers also went out of their way repeatedly to show how much they loved their kids and were willing to sacrifice for them and believed that they were doing the right thing for their children's future.

Love their kids? Any member of the Pride would have killed their children if it was of even a slight advantage. Its not like they chased after them out of love, there was no love. The Pride were under no allusion of goodness, they were all out for themselves. They were basically mob bosses with super powers or gimmicks. The average mob boss doesn't consider themselves evil, but that doesn't mean they aren't. Hell, the Pride were a lot worse then the actual Marvel Comics mob bosses like Kingpin, who at the very least was more mentally stable then several of the pride and somehow a lot less vicious (he also actually cared about his family when they were alive).

That said, even if the Pride wouldn't call themselves evil they sure as hell didn't consider themselves heroes, and its ridiculous to claim that. They were out to do what was best for them, period. Screw the world and anyone who got in their way, including their children. I'm pretty damn sure that no one who literally engages in human sacrifice would be delusional enough to call themselves heroes, not even the Pride. They didn't consider it evil (which it obviously is, and they had done just as bad if not worse stuff before), but they didn't call themselves heroes for doing it.

I read every single issue of runaways at least twice. At no point was there any shades of gray about The Pride. They were complex, but not morally ambiguous. They were evil people with absolutely no redeeming qualities.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Spoiler: Extensive spoilers for the Comics

Runaways n. 4, G. wilder walks into Alex's room with the ceremonial knife. His wife tells him to put it down. He says 'I'm not going to hurt him, I just want to explain what he saw us doing with it.' Mrs. Minoru later says 'This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you' and 'I'll discipline my own child'. The Yorkes explicitly say 'We have no intention of hurting any of you.'

R. n. 5 opens with the entire Pride discussing whether or not the children will fall for the *bluff* the pride is making about killing Molly. The Yorkes accidentally cut Nico and immediately regret it, even before the Staff of One appears (and no, they don't know the staff is coming because they're shocked when they see it). Mrs. Hayes shows nothing but love and concern for Molly.

N. 6 'We control this entire city. But that doesn't mean we're despots. We're just concerned citizens who've made great sacrifices to make the world a better place for you.'

N. 7 Mr. Dean is half insane with worry about his daughter being missing. He also refuses to believe when the others say the kids think they're no different from supervillains. 'We ARE different. We're... We're heroes! We've dedicated our lives to making the world a better place for those kids.'

N. 8 'If the children have decided to start playing crime-fighter, it's more imperative than ever that we find them quickly... before some two-bit hood decides to make an example out of them.'

N. 13, they align with the Gibborim because the end of the world 'is inevitable' anyway. Mrs. Stein is pregnant and responds to a suggestion of abortion with 'I'm not some kind of monster.'

N. 14 Mr. Stein pretends to be ambivalent about still giving the spots in paradise to their 'ungrateful brats', Mr. Wilder absolutely explodes on him for even thinking it. 'I have done terrible things in my life. But for the last 16 years I have been confident that I've been doing them for a noble reason. I am going to find Alex and give him what is rightfully his and I'll destroy anyone who gets in my way.' Stein agrees. (He was testing Wilder's motivations)

N. 16 'Don't lose faith, Janet. Remember when we used to spend hours just watching our boys play in the sand? We can't forget that we're doing this for them.'

'Are you still willing to help destroy the entire planet?' - 'Oh, yes.... We visited thousands of possible futures, each worse than the last.' - 'and all of these timelines were overrun by the same thing: super heroes' - 'The x-men, the Avengers, the Fantastic bloody Four, their kind dominated every era ensuring that people like us never challenged the mundane status quo. Believe me, a world filled with fifty year old men punching each other is no place for children. The next generation deserves something new... and that's exactly what we're going to give them.'

N. 17 Alex: 'I learned about the Gibborim and what our parents sacrificed to make this world a better place for us. I couldn't believe it... My mum and dad were Heroes!' The Gibborim declare their intention to kill the Pride AND their children - the immediate reaction from the Pride is 'Get out of here, we'll hold them off'.

So, over the course of their definitive storyline, they absolutely did literally call themselves heroes, and called themselves noble far more often. They repeatedly showed care and concern for their own children (every bit as fiercely as any normal parent) - the idea that they would ever just murder their own children just for an advantage is blatantly ridiculous - and despite their unsavory backgrounds none of them were even willing to kill the other children

Spoiler

(except for the Deans and the Hayes's who had already decided to double cross everyone and steal the six spots in paradise for themselves, anyway).

Regarding their few later appearances -

Spoiler: Spoilers for the Comics

time traveling Geoffrey Wilder blamed the Runaways for killing his wife and son. Literally his entire rampage was because of family. And the time traveling Yorkes were devastated when they found out about Gertrude's future.

As for the average villain considering them evil to the core? When did we even see the average villain encounter them at all? The Kingpin is the only instance I know of, and he simply considered them efficient, intelligent and ruthless. I understand they showed up at some point in an Iron Man story and a Daken story - I haven't read those - but as far as I know they only ever encountered cheap low lifes like the Wrecking Crew.

You're right that they're basically mob bosses with powers, and that that's why Kingpin respects them, but they absolutely do love their children. And it's kind of funny that you think 'mob bosses with powers' qualifies for 'most foul, violently disturbed people in the Marvel universe'. A universe that includes Apocalypse, Mr Sinister, the Brood, Mojo, Ultron, Killgrave, Red Skull, Galactus, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Christopher]

And it's kind of funny that you think 'mob bosses with powers' qualifies for 'most foul, violently disturbed people in the Marvel universe'. A universe that includes Apocalypse, Mr Sinister, the Brood, Mojo, Ultron, Killgrave, Red Skull, Galactus, etc, etc, etc.

Seems odd to put Galactus on that list. He's never been defined as foul or disturbed, just as a force of nature acting on his need to consume in order to survive. Indeed, I gather that recent comics have reworked him into a heroic figure, leading a team that deals with cosmic threats or something. (Plus he's buds with Squirrel Girl.)

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Seems odd to put Galactus on that list. He's never been defined as foul or disturbed, just as a force of nature acting on his need to consume in order to survive. Indeed, I gather that recent comics have reworked him into a heroic figure, leading a team that deals with cosmic threats or something. (Plus he's buds with Squirrel Girl.)

Maybe, but he is a sentient force of nature who has willfully destroyed thousands if not millions of civilizations for his own gain (hunger), and without any remorse for the incalculable loss of life. At best it's vampiricism on a galactic scale, and I'm pretty sure most people would be more horified by vampires than mob bosses. No idea what's going on with on current hero turn, though.

Besides - if Galactus gets a pass because 'it's his nature', then how do you not say the same thing about every other non-human villain? Do we have any proof that Thanos or Mojo, etc, aren't just following their natural instincts like Galactus? Not to mention that an argument could just as easily be made that psychopaths and sociopaths actually are following their natural instincts, but they're literally the very definition of who we refer to as foul, twisted, disturbed, etc.

 

[Christopher]

Maybe, but he is a sentient force of nature who has willfully destroyed thousands if not millions of civilizations for his own gain (hunger), and without any remorse for the incalculable loss of life. At best it's vampiricism on a galactic scale, and I'm pretty sure most people would be more horified by vampires than mob bosses. No idea what's going on with on current hero turn, though.

Just think of how we look to cows and pigs. These things are matters of perspective. Galactus has no malice, but a guy's gotta eat.

Besides - if Galactus gets a pass because 'it's his nature', then how do you not say the same thing about every other non-human villain? Do we have any proof that Thanos or Mojo, etc, aren't just following their natural instincts like Galactus? Not to mention that an argument could just as easily be made that psychopaths and sociopaths actually are following their natural instincts, but they're literally the very definition of who we refer to as foul, twisted, disturbed, etc.

That's an obviously invalid argument, because there are other members of their species who don't act the same way. (Most of them, anyway. I don't know if we've seen any other members of Mojo's species.) By definition, psychopaths are aberrations from the normal behavior of a species, and the way they act is clearly not necessary for their species' survival. Galactus is a unique entity, required by his biology to consume the life force of inhabited planets. He's not trying to conquer or enslave, he just needs sustenance, the most basic instinct of life. That's why Reed Richards spared him when he had the chance to let him die.