The Romulan Supernova: The final, canon word

[MFB]

I think what was mentioned in the first Episode of 'Picard' does not eliminate the possibility of the supernova being another star than the one Romulus circled around. Of course they say 'the Romulan Star' in the Interview but that can mean any star within the Romulan Empire. Yes, they said 'the Romulan Star' instead of 'a Romulan Star' but in the Interview they already mentioned the Supernova twice. So it is already clear which star they mean.

As creating a Black Hole near Romulus as a replacement for a sun makes no sense I still would prefer the variant with another star. (As a Supernova is just any 'star explosion' and we do not know all possible types of stars and their live cycles nothing speaks against some kind of warp fast 'subspace nova' - especially as we know that subspace energy can resemble a star as seen in VOY 'One small step'.)

But just implying it was Romulus' star that went nova makes sense for the new series. It simplifies the story as the event was 10 years ago the series is not about the details, not about Spock or Red Matter or Black Holes. These things are not essential for 'Picard' so no need top mention them.

 

[Tomalak]

The Picard Countdown comic says the Romulans knew for years before they reached out for help, as in typical Romulan fashion they didn't want anyone else to know their business.

 

[DaveyNY]

Close... but no cigar

They soon™ may have that as well...

 

[DaveyNY]

I think what was mentioned in the first Episode of 'Picard' does not eliminate the possibility of the supernova being another star than the one Romulus circled around. Of course they say 'the Romulan Star' in the Interview but that can mean any star within the Romulan Empire. Yes, they said 'the Romulan Star' instead of 'a Romulan Star' but in the Interview they already mentioned the Supernova twice. So it is already clear which star they mean.

As creating a Black Hole near Romulus as a replacement for a sun makes no sense I still would prefer the variant with another star. (As a Supernova is just any 'star explosion' and we do not know all possible types of stars and their live cycles nothing speaks against some kind of warp fast 'subspace nova' - especially as we know that subspace energy can resemble a star as seen in VOY 'One small step'.)

But just implying it was Romulus' star that went nova makes sense for the new series. It simplifies the story as the event was 10 years ago the series is not about the details, not about Spock or Red Matter or Black Holes. These things are not essential for 'Picard' so no need top mention them.

I thought the way Spock planned to use the Red Matter it would have canceled itself out upon interacting with the supernova and not left a blackhole behind.

 

[MFB]

I thought the way Spock planned to use the Red Matter it would have canceled itself out upon interacting with the supernova and not left a blackhole behind.

After Vulcan was consumed by the Black Hole I think you can still see a black Region where the Center of the Planet was. The temporal 'Storm in space effect' stops but the Black Hole seems to be permanent.

But even if the Hole vanished after it canceled the Supernova there would be empty space at the center of Romulus' star system. So the Romulans would have died just by another disaster.

 

[urbandk]

Just jumping in to this thread to say retconning that supernova to be the Romulan star was a brilliant move and really cleared the air on a ten-year old wonky conundrum. No weird subspace supernova. No alien plot. Just a huge natural disaster.

Now I'm hoping they work in some throwaway line fixing Delta Vega.

 

[DaveyNY]

After Vulcan was consumed by the Black Hole I think you can still see a black Region where the Center of the Planet was. The temporal 'Storm in space effect' stops but the Black Hole seems to be permanent.

But even if the Hole vanished after it canceled the Supernova there would be empty space at the center of Romulus' star system. So the Romulans would have died just by another disaster.

I don't know for sure, but I figured the plan was that the strange qualities of Red Matter would have stabilized the Romulan sun and avoided it going nova to being with.

'Bad Timing' was everybody's foil in that movie.

 

[Jedman67]

"A star went Nova and threatened the entire galaxy"
Lets see now; one of the biggest political entities in the Galaxy, which alternated between hostile, aggressive and passive aggressive; and at one time, allied for a time with the other larger Star Nations, is suddenly destroyed, leaving a huge refugee crisis.
The evacuation fleet, sabotaged; the last-ditch rescue effort failed; the Federation has withdrawn into an isolationist regime, and the balance of powers between the remaining powers has shifted considerably as the less altruistic empires have attempted to grab off territory and jockey for more power among themselves.
Free trade would have gone to hell, piracy and privateer raiding shot up...Yup, the Galaxy has definitely fallen to pieces.

"Romulus or Hobus"
Who cares?

 

[Tomalak]

Just jumping in to this thread to say retconning that supernova to be the Romulan star was a brilliant move and really cleared the air on a ten-year old wonky conundrum. No weird subspace supernova. No alien plot. Just a huge natural disaster.

Yeah, if it's a retcon, I can live with it.

Although that whole Countdown comic is now pretty dubious, because it has Data as Captain of the Enterprise.

 

[Longinus]

After Vulcan was consumed by the Black Hole I think you can still see a black Region where the Center of the Planet was. The temporal 'Storm in space effect' stops but the Black Hole seems to be permanent.

But even if the Hole vanished after it canceled the Supernova there would be empty space at the center of Romulus' star system. So the Romulans would have died just by another disaster.

For the red matter plan to make even tiniest bit of sense, it needs to compress the star into a black hole. This way the Romulus (had it survived) can continue to orbit that black hole. Now, without the light of the star, it will be a dead planet anyway, but not immediately, especially given Trek's tech level. It would give more time to evacuate the planet safely and of course prevent the blast reaching other colonies. So instead of an instant destruction of Romulus and destruction of all nearby colonies withing couple of years, we would be looking at abandoning Romulus and nearby colonies surviving so the people from Romulus can relocate to those.

 

[urbandk]

"A star went Nova and threatened the entire galaxy"
Lets see now; one of the biggest political entities in the Galaxy, which alternated between hostile, aggressive and passive aggressive; and at one time, allied for a time with the other larger Star Nations, is suddenly destroyed, leaving a huge refugee crisis.
The evacuation fleet, sabotaged; the last-ditch rescue effort failed; the Federation has withdrawn into an isolationist regime, and the balance of powers between the remaining powers has shifted considerably as the less altruistic empires have attempted to grab off territory and jockey for more power among themselves.
Free trade would have gone to hell, piracy and privateer raiding shot up...Yup, the Galaxy has definitely fallen to pieces.

"Romulus or Hobus"
Who cares?

Yeah, whether Spock was being fanciful or figurative, there's plenty of interpretive space to make sense out of his comments retroactively.

 

[Push The Button]

I'd chalk up a lot of the seeming inconsistencies of Spock's account to being the result of a kind of dream-logic chain of thought approach rather than a linear, factual telling. A star DID go supernova, Romulus WAS destroyed, but the sequence of events leading up to that could be different from what they seemed. Say for example if Spock's promise to counteract the Supernova came years before, as soon as the instability was detected and that it actually blew literally when Spock's new ship had just launched.

Maybe the point of that ship being "fast" had to do with out close it has to get to the event to deployt the red matter safely; as in any other ship's engines wouldn't be powerful enough to operate that close to all of the crazy gravity waves, let alone escape the well created by the black hole.

What Nero's whole deal was is still a bit of an oddity. I mean why interfere with the attempt to stop the supernova? Even with Romulus already gone all of the local Romulan colonies would still have been at risk. I can think of a few possibilities but is basically boils down to "Nero wasn't acting rationally", which kinda works but also smacks of lazy writing IMO.

As as for it threatening the galaxy: yeah I think that could be interpreted as more of a sociopolitical disaster. I mean imagine if here and now a major capital city got nuked. The physical danger in the blast radius would have little effect across the globe, but the larger implications are a massive refugee crisis, long term ecological consequences, the breakdown of that state's infrastructure and the fracturing of it's territories as what's left of the smaller internal powers via for control. Short version: civil war, strife, economic crashes and lots of military grade equipment finding their way into all the wrong hands.

We also don't quite know what the local galactic situation is in this time period, like what have the long term effect of the Dominion War been? Has the Cardassian Union broken up? What are the Klingons up to these days? Are smaller states like the Breen taking advantage of the power vacuum? How thinly stretched has Starfleet been these last few decades? Things could already have been in a very delicate state of affairs.

Once upon a time, people that wrote science fiction used to actually know something about science, or consulted with others that did.

 

[BillJ]

They soon™ may have that as well...

Is Rios a Synth? He has those screens up in a manner reminiscent of Dahj in the first episode.

 

[Yistaan]

"Remembrance" establishes that it was the Romulan sun itself that went supernova, with no mention of Hobus, or a chain reaction, or it expanding faster-than-light as the original Countdown comic or Star Trek Online: The Needs of the Many previously established. Picard left the Enterprise to head up a rescue mission that would save 900,000 Romulans but it all fell apart after the Synths destroy Mars.

So Spock's "a star will explode, and threaten to destroy the galaxy!" from Star Trek (2009) is rendered nonsensical, but "Rememberance" does explain why Spock went it alone, because the Federation withdrew support for the evacuation effort after the Synths destroy Mars. His was a last ditch effort. Nero's cries that "The Federation did nothing!" are confirmed and his vendetta against Spock is about him breaking his promise to save Romulus - although Romulus could never survive without a star anyway so...

Well, the new Picard Countdown Prequel comic book still shows the Romulan supernova as affecting colonies not in the Romulan system, so the new tie-in material is still treating the supernova as a magical one with faster than light speed effects...

 

[fireproof78]

Finally, can we all agree that STO in particular, and comics most definitely are not canon?

Nope.

The Picard Countdown comic says the Romulans knew for years before they reached out for help, as in typical Romulan fashion they didn't want anyone else to know their business.

Sounds about right.

Yeah, whether Spock was being fanciful or figurative, there's plenty of interpretive space to make sense out of his comments retroactively.

Spock admits to being emotionally compromised in the film. I wouldn't take everything literally. I didn't then-I don't now.

 

[Crewman6]

No, it was a completely separate star.

"Hobus" is not a term used in the actual movie, so it doesn't matter.

 

[Longinus]

Well, the new Picard Countdown Prequel comic book still shows the Romulan supernova as affecting colonies not in the Romulan system, so the new tie-in material is still treating the supernova as a magical one with faster than light speed effects...

It is not. Those colonies would be affected. Sure, it might only happen couple of years after Romulus is toast, but they need to be evacuated all the same.

 

[Yistaan]

Finally, can we all agree that STO in particular, and comics most definitely are not canon?

I think the STO devs are going to change the game to fit Picard. Probably say Hobus was another name for the Romulan star or something.

 

[Crewman6]

It wasn't fan fiction, as it was co-written by one of the writers of Star Trek (2009). Words have meaning.

But comics have never been canon, no matter who wrote them.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think it makes it fan fiction either. It's in some weird nebulous place reserved for TAS and first drafts...