Spoilers The Roddenberry Archive brings every iteration of Star Trek’s USS Enterprise bridge to life

[Yistaan]

Of course, but this is now rewarding it. Before it was just "We can use make up and try to shore up the image." Now, it's "Ok, I can look like my old self 20 years ago. I can appear like aging hasn't caught up to me."

It creates an extremely disturbing precedence of essentially saying "You don't age."

I'm actually imagining an alternate universe where Shatner had advanced AI deepfake tech at his disposal in the early 1980s when making "Wrath of Khan", making everyone in that movie look just like in TOS, and having a laugh.

Kirk: Khan!

Khan (on viewscreen): You still remember, Admiral. I, cannot help but be touched. Of course, I remember you.

Kirk: Why wouldn't I, you haven't aged a day since the last time I saw you.

 

[fireproof78]

 

[IMC Headquarters]

Just you wait until AI goes 3-D in de-ageing people. 2-D? No sweat. Literally!

Saavik in "Unification" was no deepfake. Robin Curtis was stunning to look at as Kirstie Alley was back on the training bridge of the Enterprise. Wow!

 

[Michael]

Steve Shives is putting it more bluntly and polemically than I would (or than is necessary, really), but this is more or less how I feel as well. I definitely liked the short more than he did, but otherwise he puts into words what my worries about the implications of this are. And again, I say this with an immense love and appreciation for the people creating this awe-inspiring work. And I vehemently disagree with Shives when he says that the short isn’t creative. I might not want this to becomes all that Trek does, but to say this wasn’t a creative work is just nonsense.

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[Daedalus]

I don't think anyone needs to be too worried about all this. I imagine what OTOY could produce for Paramount, if they decide to use them in the future, would be more of a seasoning than the main meal. It's just good to know that this technology is available if they have a story that requires it.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Steve Shives is putting it more bluntly and polemically than I would (or than is necessary, really), but this is more or less how I feel as well. I definitely liked the short more than he did, but otherwise he puts into words what my worries about the implications of this are. And again, I say this with an immense love and appreciation for the people creating this awe-inspiring work. And I vehemently disagree with Shives when he says that the short isn’t creative. I might not want this to becomes all that Trek does, but to say this wasn’t a creative work is just nonsense.

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Yeah, I generally like Shives content, but when he goes off on this kind of a rant, I just roll my eyes and keep scrolling, as I did when I saw this in my feed. Unification was certainly more creative than the snark that you get in an average episode of Shives "Ensign's Log" podcast.

 

[HotRod]

Steve Shives is putting it more bluntly and polemically than I would (or than is necessary, really), but this is more or less how I feel as well. I definitely liked the short more than he did, but otherwise he puts into words what my worries about the implications of this are. And again, I say this with an immense love and appreciation for the people creating this awe-inspiring work. And I vehemently disagree with Shives when he says that the short isn’t creative. I might not want this to becomes all that Trek does, but to say this wasn’t a creative work is just nonsense.

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I'm one of the biggest critics of Star Trek YouTubers on this forum. With that said, i decided to give this a watch....

He's pretty much 100% correct, in my opinion. He nails all of my biggest concerns in regards to this technology and tackles the issues I have with various factions within the fandom.

I may actually like this guy. I knew he existed, but never really bothered to watch as I figured he was like most other Trek channels. Maybe I was wrong.

 

[Firebird]

I'm one of the biggest critics of Star Trek YouTubers on this forum. With that said, i decided to give this a watch....

He's pretty much 100% correct, in my opinion. He nails all of my biggest concerns in regards to this technology and tackles the issues I have with various factions within the fandom.

I may actually like this guy. I knew he existed, but never really bothered to watch as I figured he was like most other Trek channels. Maybe I was wrong.

Shives is one of the very few YouTubers I actually subscribe to. His videos are always insightful and have helped me figure out some writing problems I’ve had with my stories occasionally.

That being said, I think Steve is getting worked up a little too much. We need to remember that this short was created by the Roddenberry Archive, whose purpose is to preserve and showcase the documentation from Gene’s collection, so this series of shorts is right in line with that mission statement. I don’t think there’s any intention of this being more than a way to broaden the Archive’s appeal while also being an impressive tech demo.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I actually discovered Jessie Gender through Shives, and Jessie went on to become my favorite Star Trek YouTuber.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I was subscribed to Steve Shives for a while. I found his confidence in his opinions a lot more appealing when they weren't opposite to my own. I mean, part of the reason I like visiting forums and YouTube is that I get to see other perspectives and understand things a bit better, but I do already have some understanding of why I enjoy media and when he outright rejects those reasons, that doesn't give me much incentive to continue being ranted at.

That said, I'm having a way better time with Trek channels on YouTube now that I've gotten over my reluctance to check new people out. Now when I don't recognise the channel I open the video in a private window so it doesn't affect my recommendations until I trust them. And if I do see any obvious red flags in my recommended videos in the titles and thumbnails I just block them and they're gone.

Edit: I'm still subscribed to Jessie Gender!

 

[Michael]

Love both Jessie Gender and Steve Shives. Both are intelligent, entertaining and eloquent Trek fans who’ll often put into words what I’m thinking as well. Still, every once in a while both can have super shitty takes I find myself wildly disagreeing with. It happens.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

There’s one point Shives makes that really sums it all up:

“To those of you who liked it, would you have liked it just as much if Kirk and Spock have been played by new actors instead of special effects recreations of the Shatner and Nimoy versions?”

And that’s the thing for ME, I couldn’t get invested in it because I KNOW it’s not actually Shatner and Nimoy. I can’t overlook that gimmick. The essence of their characters doesn’t translate into this because they’re not actually there making the informed acting choices about characters they’ve played for decades.

 

[Daedalus]

There’s one point Shives makes that really sums it all up:

“To those of you who liked it, would you have liked it just as much if Kirk and Spock have been played by new actors instead of special effects recreations of the Shatner and Nimoy versions?”

And that’s the thing for ME, I couldn’t get invested in it because I KNOW it’s not actually Shatner and Nimoy. I can’t overlook that gimmick. The essence of their characters doesn’t translate into this because they’re not actually there making the informed acting choices about characters they’ve played for decades.

I go for the glass half full approach, as Shatner was involved and Witwer nailed his physical mannerisms for the most part. My greatest joy was actually seeing Robin Curtis again, with everything else being the cherry on top of the cake.

Shives has a point, but this really wouldn't have been the hit it was had it been Wesley and Peck, or Pine and Quinto aged-up. It would've lost a lot of the magic. You can do that in SNW anytime you want, but as a partial celebration of Generations, it really needed to feel like part of that movie.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Agreed.

 

[Will_Carter]

I think it's interesting that everyone essentially agrees that it's a matter of taste, we just don't all agree on precisely where the line is.

And therein lies the difficulty.

The other problem is one of knowing the amount of greed in the industry and how little it values people. that is to say we would still be treating people like Judy Garland was during wizard of oz if it wasn't for regulations.

 

[Tomalak]

I don't always agree with Shives by any means, but he's usually thoughtful and makes a good argument.

On this I agree about the wider implications and risks of this technology; he even made the same point that I did yesterday about using deepfakes on SNW.

But I disagree specifically on Unification, as it's not really intending to tell a story. The whole point is that it's a tribute to Shatner and Nimoy more than "Kirk and Spock" and it succeeds at that. At least for me. That's why I think the lack of dialogue is a feature, not a bug. It's basically equivalent to fan art in motion.

But I don't think it work for me in a longer, dramatic form, and I'm happy with the way the current series have preferred to recast the characters.

Although I'd rather they created entirely new ones!

 

[Turtletrekker]

“To those of you who liked it, would you have liked it just as much if Kirk and Spock have been played by new actors instead of special effects recreations of the Shatner and Nimoy versions?”

This is far from the first time that Shives has completely missed the point.

 

[Will_Carter]

This is far from the first time that Shives has completely missed the point.

Yeeaa I saw Steve's take on this and.

'No. I'm not even going to pretend me commenting will do anything because you'll come across as a pretentious know it all speaking down at me so I'm not bothering.'

It is an amazing tool. It has much potential for good or bad. It WILL be used both well and very poorly.

However, in this instance? It is used in an unambiguously good way. To pay tribute to these two specific iterations, these two People as much as anything. It'd be ... so much less if it were zack wuinto and chris pine's kirk and spock as example.

 

[IMC Headquarters]

I cried watching "Unification". Yup. Bawled. Part of my emotional journey in this life. And I own that path.

The really cool thing I take away from all this is how it ties in back to "The Cage" all those years ago with its theme of pleasing illusions versus painful realities. Which world do you choose to live in? A real one of loss, infirmity, and separation? Or its false replacement of strength, vitality, inclusivity and purpose?

I'm sure the Talosians themselves would be nodding admiringly at the screen.

 

[Daedalus]

I don't always agree with Shives by any means, but he's usually thoughtful and makes a good argument.

On this I agree about the wider implications and risks of this technology; he even made the same point that I did yesterday about using deepfakes on SNW.

But I disagree specifically on Unification, as it's not really intending to tell a story. The whole point is that it's a tribute to Shatner and Nimoy more than "Kirk and Spock" and it succeeds at that. At least for me. That's why I think the lack of dialogue is a feature, not a bug. It's basically equivalent to fan art in motion.

But I don't think it work for me in a longer, dramatic form, and I'm happy with the way the current series have preferred to recast the characters.

Although I'd rather they created entirely new ones!

I think SNW is fine the way it is, and any other prequel production they might make one day. Recasting is how it should be for a long term series, but flashbacks and similar short scenes could make great use of this tech.

My perfect scenario, if we could have use a hypothetical Captain Garrett show as an example, would be to have a new actor play a young Lt Picard.

However, if a follow up to Picard were to happen and they showed us a younger JL in a flashback, then I'm sure Stewart would happily lend his likeness for that scene.