The Return of THE Law and Order

[Admiral2]

[The Rock]FINALLY...The Real Law & Order...HAS COME BACK...to N, B, C...[/The Rock]

I haven't been this excited about a TV premiere in ages. The original L&O was always my favorite of the franchise and I was always kinda miffed that NBC wouldn't let it have one more consecutive season so it could break - at the time - the record for longest running drama. Of course then SVU did break it and is still going strong, but that just honked me off more because it has always been my least favorite of the franchise.

Obviously, the promo didn't show much beyond the new actors in the series, and I've long since given up on not seeing at least minimal wokeness in my favorite entertainment, but I'm hoping it will still have the character of the original. It's Dick Wolf's version of Dragnet (until he rebooted Dragnet for ABC...we won't talk about that.) I don't think you can screw it up as long as the writers stick to "just the facts" of the cases.

So, anyone else looking forward to the show's return this Thursday, or am I, as is often the case, alone in my enthusiasm?

 

[vandevere]

[The Rock]FINALLY...The Real Law & Order...HAS COME BACK...to N, B, C...[/The Rock]

I haven't been this excited about a TV premiere in ages. The original L&O was always my favorite of the franchise and I was always kinda miffed that NBC wouldn't let it have one more consecutive season so it could break - at the time - the record for longest running drama. Of course then SVU did break it and is still going strong, but that just honked me off more because it has always been my least favorite of the franchise.

Obviously, the promo didn't show much beyond the new actors in the series, and I've long since given up on not seeing at least minimal wokeness in my favorite entertainment, but I'm hoping it will still have the character of the original. It's Dick Wolf's version of Dragnet (until he rebooted Dragnet for ABC...we won't talk about that.) I don't think you can screw it up as long as the writers stick to "just the facts" of the cases.

So, anyone else looking forward to the show's return this Thursday, or am I, as is often the case, alone in my enthusiasm?

It's been a long time since I've looked forward to a "New" TV Series this much.

 

[Finn]

They ought cast Hugh Laurie---a new version of Lenny.

 

[Admiral2]

They ought cast Hugh Laurie---a new version of Lenny.

A Lenny type, maybe, but Lenny Briscoe was one of my favorite detectives and Jerry Orbach did yeoman's work playing him, so I'd just as soon let both of them rest in peace.

What I want to see is Isobel and Jubal visit from the New York FBI office and everybody do that old Rosanne joke where the old Becky came back to the show the rest of the cast was like "Where have you been??" (It could happen. Hailey Upton's brief stint on the show makes everything connected.)

 

[Timby]

I've long since given up on not seeing at least minimal wokeness in my favorite entertainment

Fucking really? You have to whine about that in a thread about a TV show? God forbid shows be a reflection of the times.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

They ought cast Hugh Laurie---a new version of Lenny.

I'd settle for a cameo by Bradley Walsh from L&O:UK.

As for Hugh Laurie...the further away from L&O he can be kept, the better.

 

[Admiral2]

Fucking really? You have to whine about that in a thread about a TV show? God forbid shows be a reflection of the times.

Okay, seriously, where were you and the other BBS Overlords when the SG-1 thread got off track?

Whatever, man. I said what I said and I'm not taking it back. Do what you gotta do, but I'm not gonna let it harsh my buzz. Real L&O is back and I'll take it, warts and all. I'm not particularly worried about people not agreeing with me about what the warts are.

 

[ATimson]

Based on the credits, I think that this is technically a new show; Rick Eid got a "Developed By" credit.

Personally I don't think it was "woke" enough. Admittedly, I haven't watched any of the Dick Wolf shows since, uh, whichever ended later of original flavor and Criminal Intent. So I don't really know what he's been doing in the interim. I like what they did with Bernard, and I like the new male ADA's ideals. But it seems like McCoy has spent the last decade drinking the right-wing Flavor-aid.

 

[Danny99]

The new detective will get grating if that is going to be his character.

McCoy was leaned more centrally and even to the right since he became the DA, undoubtedly due to the political stresses of the job.

I frankly would've chosen a more cut and dry case for the first episode back. It wasn't a standout episode, but it could've been worse.

 

[Admiral2]

Based on the credits, I think that this is technically a new show; Rick Eid got a "Developed By" credit.

Personally I don't think it was "woke" enough. Admittedly, I haven't watched any of the Dick Wolf shows since, uh, whichever ended later of original flavor and Criminal Intent. So I don't really know what he's been doing in the interim. I like what they did with Bernard, and I like the new male ADA's ideals. But it seems like McCoy has spent the last decade drinking the right-wing Flavor-aid.

Oh it was woke as hell. The murder victim was a Bill Cosby clone, there was a "Believe All Women" theme to the whole episode, and the new detective Cosgrove was the perfect stereotype of a pissed off white male cop.

And I still got more enjoyment out of watching it than I ever have out of SVU.

I don't think McCoy is "drinking the right wing Kool aid" as much as he's had his idealism tempered by practicality. He was right about the legality of the confession, but let his idealistic deputy learn that the hard way, just as he often had to during his tenure as deputy.

Speaking of McCoy, I think Sam Waterson may be older than Steven Hill was when he originated the role of L&O D.A., and it shows in his performance. Like Adam Schiff, McCoy's.having to spend a bunch of time trying to rein in a "champion of justice" until the upstart starts thinking like a prosecutor. Eventually, the new guy will get old, and the cycle will continue.

As for the rest of the cast, Anthony Anderson is fine in the role he originated, but that's not saying much. Bernard to me was always "just fine." All Camryn Manheim did was make me miss S. Epatha Merkerson more (but still not enough to make me watch Chicago Med). The woman prosecutor was just another woman prosecutor. It'll be a while before she starts to stand out.

And there's Cosgrove, who I really like. He's just the right kind of asshole to be interesting and Jefferey Donovan plays him to perfection. He reminds me of Fontana, who was that kind of partner with Green. He's going to be the hook that keeps me watching.

Anyway, I'm happy that the new show still has the DNA of the old. Vive le Dick Wolf!

 

[auntiehill]

I was happy to see it return, as well. However, this was a pretty weak -ass episode-- generally far more tepid than any episode of the original series. There were no surprises here, and no one really stood out-- except the Jamie Ross, character, who had far too brief an appearance. I hope Jeffrey Donovan's character gets a bit more depth and Anthony Andersen gets a bit more to do.

I REALLY miss S. Epatha Merkerson---Cameron Manheim seems a poor substitute, but I know Ms. Mererson has another gig now.

We'll see how the new series develops.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Did they use the original theme music?

Oh it was woke as hell. The murder victim was a Bill Cosby clone, there was a "Believe All Women" theme to the whole episode

Countdown to Olivia Benson turning up in 5...4...3...

 

[Admiral2]

Did they use the original theme music?

They jazzed it up a bit, but the arrangement's the same. In youtube speak it might be the "slightly epic" version of the theme.

 

[Timby]

I've watched the premiere twice, and ... eh. Various thoughts:

- Coming out of the gate with a Cosby episode was ... something. Dick Wolf, you rascal, you, always swinging for the fences.
- I liked the older, wizened Bernard quite a bit. He feels like a decade-older version of his character; I liked the aura around him of, "Man, when did I turn into Lupo?"
- Detective Burn Notice suuuuuuuucked. All the bad qualities of a Stabler or Fontana with none of the charisma. Seemed like he just gets high off the authority and seemed like a walking road rage incident, whining about how he can't just crack skulls because he feels like it. (Admittedly ... that's not terribly off-track from the real-life NYPD.)
- The judge just being like, "Well, I'll just give a jury instruction, it's fine," was kind of whack.
- I liked Price a lot, too. Him asking for low bail, and then deciding to toss out the bogus confession was a good establishing moment for him.
- Did Wolf & Co. forget that Jamie Ross was a judge the last time we saw her? Why is she back as a prosecutor? And she didn't need to be an ADA in order to do the plot that they did.
- Style-wise, there's way too much music, in almost every scene, and the camerawork is far more frenetic and flourished than it used to be. Vanilla was a verité, sparse show with long, single takes that felt the opposite of forced and flashy.
- McCoy whining about "defund the police" felt incredibly out of character from the pragmatist we used to know.
- Still wondering if they're going to address how McCoy became the DA again after season 13 of SVU very explicitly said he was no longer in office, and then suddenly he was back in Barba's final episode of SVU.
- Camryn Manheim was, in a word, painful.
- I know he's 81 and three years older than Steven Hill was when he left the series following season 10, but Waterston sounded so old.

Did they use the original theme music?

Kind of. The main tune is the same, but they've added more guitar and an absolutely atrocious synth percussion backing track that made my ears bleed.

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Countdown to Olivia Benson turning up in 5...4...3...

Wolf and Eid have already said they have plans for this revival to cross over with both SVU and Organized Crime.

 

[Admiral2]

I would advise everybody hating on Cosgrove to be patient with him. He is like Fontana, but it was his first episode, and the thing about Fontana was that he changed over the course of his run. He may never have been perfect, but he was not the same in his last episode as he was in his first. If this L&O season lasts only thirteen episodes, that still gives Cosgrove time to change, because it gives Jeffrey Donovan, really a very fine actor, time to grow into the role.

 

[ATimson]

Style-wise, there's way too much music, in almost every scene, and the camerawork is far more frenetic and flourished than it used to be. Vanilla was a verité, sparse show with long, single takes that felt the opposite of forced and flashy.

I noticed the visuals, but I assumed that was just a reality of filming around COVID - less time for fancy takes, and trying to minimize the number of people in-shot.

The added music went over my head, oddly enough. I did notice that the score was once again credited to Mike Post, even though I thought he'd more or less retired. Guess not.

I would advise everybody hating on Cosgrove to be patient with him. He is like Fontana, but it was his first episode, and the thing about Fontana was that he changed over the course of his run. He may never have been perfect, but he was not the same in his last episode as he was in his first.

Fontana may have gotten better, but whatever changes he underwent weren't quick enough for me. I ended up dropping the show early in season 15. I don't know if it was just the character's fault - more likely he was emblematic of my not liking the then-showrunners' approach. Even though I have the complete original series on DVD I still haven't gone back to seasons 15-17. (Yeah, okay, Fontana's not in the last of those. But René Balcer didn't come back as showrunner until season 18.)

I'll give the revival a few more chances, but an episodic show like L&O lives or dies on its main characters, and so far I'm not feeling most of the current iteration (including the new McCoy).

 

[DarrenTR1970]

- Did Wolf & Co. forget that Jamie Ross was a judge the last time we saw her? Why is she back as a prosecutor? And she didn't need to be an ADA in order to do the plot that they did.
- Style-wise, there's way too much music, in almost every scene, and the camerawork is far more frenetic and flourished than it used to be. Vanilla was a verité, sparse show with long, single takes that felt the opposite of forced and flashy.

As a reviewer in another thread pointed out, it should have been McCoy that had the meeting with Ross since the two had previously worked together; there would have been a more emotional connection between the two of them.

I agree with the music. When the interrogation scene was happening, I had to mute it because I was wondering where the music was coming from and initially thought that I had left the stereo in the other room on. It was distracting.

Something else about the show right now is that I currently can't separate the actors from their previous performances. Jeffrey Donovan is still Michael Weston from 'Burn Notice', Hugh Darcy is Will Graham from 'Hannibal', and Camryn Manheim is still Ellenor from 'The Practice'.

What was good about the original 'L&O' is that for the most part, the lead characters were unknowns prior to their joining the series.

 

[Admiral2]

Something else about the show right now is that I currently can't separate the actors from their previous performances. Jeffrey Donovan is still Michael Weston from 'Burn Notice', Hugh Darcy is Will Graham from 'Hannibal', and Camryn Manheim is still Ellenor from 'The Practice'.

There's a cure for this: Just watch them in other roles.

Jeffrey Donovan has played characters in Changeling and Sicario and in the biopic LBJ, none of which were like Michael Weston. Camryn Manheim did a star turn in the later seasons of Ghost Whisperer. Her role was sufficiently different from Ellenor that I didn't think of The Practice once. If you look hard enough and watch enough, you'll be able to stop associating actors with specific characters and just see them as actors.

 

[Aragorn]

Did Wolf & Co. forget that Jamie Ross was a judge the last time we saw her? Why is she back as a prosecutor? And she didn't need to be an ADA in order to do the plot that they did.

She could've lost her reelection or not sought out another term. You're gonna be in for a shock when you find out just how long ago Trial By Jury was.

 

[Timby]

She could've lost her reelection or not sought out another term. You're gonna be in for a shock when you find out just how long ago Trial By Jury was.

I always forget that New York has judicial elections. (Which are real, real bad, but that's not a subject for this thread.)

I guess my point is that Ross being back in the DA's office added nothing to the story or the setting, and I also would think, based on everything the show established of her character (I actually re-watched her seasons this month) that if she left the bench, she'd go back to lucrative private practice again.

The added music went over my head, oddly enough. I did notice that the score was once again credited to Mike Post, even though I thought he'd more or less retired. Guess not.

Atli Örvarsson is Dick Wolf's go-to guy nowadays (he did the music for L&O: Los Angeles, and currently scores all of the Chicago and FBI shows), but Post still does the music for SVU. Guess Wolf convinced him to come back to the mothership, too.

Fontana may have gotten better, but whatever changes he underwent weren't quick enough for me. I ended up dropping the show early in season 14. I don't know if it was just the character's fault - more likely he was emblematic of my not liking the then-showrunners' approach. Even though I have the complete original series on DVD I still haven't gone back to seasons 14-17. (Yeah, okay, Fontana's not in the last of those. But René Balcer didn't come back as showrunner until season 18.)

Fontana changed because fans really, really didn't like both his demeanor and the constant hint-dropping that he was a crooked cop, but it wasn't until the end of his first season (15; Orbach left after 14 and Farina only worked two years) that the character really started shifting to just a sarcastic wise-cracker. And, yes, season 17 is unwatchable, both for the scripts and Milena Govich being an unbelievably terrible actor. It's a miracle the show didn't get canceled after that year.

I'll give the revival a few more chances, but an episodic show like L&O lives or dies on its main characters, and so far I'm not feeling most of the current iteration (including the new McCoy).

I mean, most shows don't come roaring out of the gate, but I'll give it a few more shots.