The rank of "Commodore"

[C.E. Evans]

But that's pure conjecture.

Let's see...he was on Vulcan, undergoing the Kolinahr, and his Starfleet commission had to be reactivated upon his return to the Enterprise.

Nope. Nothing remotely conjectural about that, I'm afraid.

Well, it is conjecture to say that he did anything else, and to say that is all he did.

Well, the simple fact--which I've been stating all along--is that Spock wasn't serving in Starfleet at the time and was undergoing the Kolinahr on Vulcan at the time of TMP. Don't know how that can possibly be conjecture or anything to even argue over.

Now, we can speculate all we want on how or why he actually left and what else he was doing while he was gone, but that falls into the category of personal conjecture, IMO.

I wonder if the military reserves the right to reactivate certain officers in critical times. I'm sure if it does happen it is relatively rare, compared to what you see on TV.

Yes, they do. That's the point of them being "Inactive". The full term is "Inactive reserve". Reserve meaning of course "able to be called to active duty".

Now that brings up the subject of McCoy, who believed that Admiral Nogura "invoked a little-known, seldom-used, reserve activation clause" to get him back into the service.

With Spock, though, we don't know if he was on "inactive" or simply flat-out resigned, with Kirk giving the order to reactivate his commission regardless of his status (Starfleet may have different policies about stuff like that than today's navies do, IMO).

Of course, we could just put it in its simplest terms that Spock and McCoy left Starfleet after TOS but returned for TMP (which would cover all the bases and still leave room for personal conjectures), but apparently it needs to be more complicated than that for some reason...

 

[J.T.B.]

The United States did not even HAVE the rank of "Admiral" in any form at all when the US Navy first introduced the rank/position/title of Commodore. The first US Admiral of any grade whatsoever was in 1862, Commodore having been used since much earlier than that.

Quite right, but that US Navy is not where "the naval rank of commodore came about." It originated in the British Royal Navy for the reasons stated above.

^^ I wonder if the military reserves the right to reactivate certain officers in critical times. I'm sure if it does happen it is relatively rare, compared to what you see on TV.

It's happened quite a lot since the Iraq war started, and is still going on now, mostly for Afghanistan. It has included a lot of former active duty people who didn't know all the "fine print" and thought that they were all done with military service. And not just officers, but enlisted as well. It's called the Individual Ready Reserve, and IIRC something like 30,000 people have been reactivated under the IRR since 9/11/01.

--Justin

 

[Mr.AtoZ]

Actually, this is partially correct. The enlisted who were called back were on "inactive reserve" status, because not enough time had elapsed from the ending of their terms of service.

I served in the enlisted ranks of the USAF. When I finished my enlistment I was on "inactive reserve" status for a period of 1 year. The Persian Gulf War had started and I was concerned about being called back to duty (I was working on building a new career). But the large envelope I later received in the mail contained my official honorable discharge from the USAF. In this state, I am discharged and completely clear of the IRR.

Where retired officers are concerned, it is a different story. But I wouldn't doubt that there are some waivers that can be exercised for those who are resourceful enough.

 

[Sector 7]

Hey! I was a commodore for a long time here on the TrekBBS!

You were deleted, too. Didn't you get the memo?

The United States did not even HAVE the rank of "Admiral" in any form at all when the US Navy first introduced the rank/position/title of Commodore. The first US Admiral of any grade whatsoever was in 1862, Commodore having been used since much earlier than that.

Quite right, but that US Navy is not where "the naval rank of commodore came about." It originated in the British Royal Navy for the reasons stated above.

^^ I wonder if the military reserves the right to reactivate certain officers in critical times. I'm sure if it does happen it is relatively rare, compared to what you see on TV.

It's happened quite a lot since the Iraq war started, and is still going on now, mostly for Afghanistan. It has included a lot of former active duty people who didn't know all the "fine print" and thought that they were all done with military service. And not just officers, but enlisted as well. It's called the Individual Ready Reserve, and IIRC something like 30,000 people have been reactivated under the IRR since 9/11/01.

--Justin

It happened to me during Desert Storm. At the time I was president of a growing company and a disabled veteran. I finally had to contact our family friend, Strom Thurmond to prove to DOD that I was unable to serve.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Quite right, but that US Navy is not where "the naval rank of commodore came about." It originated in the British Royal Navy for the reasons stated above.

Fair point about the US.

However, you're still wrong. The rank/title/position was already in use in other navies when the Royal Navy adopted it, so it didn't originate in the British Royal Navy either.

 

[J.T.B.]

However, you're still wrong. The rank/title/position was already in use in other navies when the Royal Navy adopted it, so it didn't originate in the British Royal Navy either.

Well, "commodore" did originate in the Royal Navy, but fair point that was an anglicized version of the Dutch title commandeur.

--Justin

 

[Cicero]

By the time of the TOS movies, I think the rank of Commodore in real life had been replaced by Rear Admiral Lower half. But no one wants to be called a "Lower Rear Admiral" so they just call them Rear Admiral.

The US Navy eliminated commodore as a grade in 1899, so even during TOS's run it was not a US Navy rank. It made brief reappearances as a temporary rank in WW2 and again in the early '80s.

The USN got rid of the grade of commodore in 1899 because of a status disparity between their commodores and those of the much larger and more influential British Royal Navy, which did not considered commodore to be a flag rank. Understandable enough. What is harder to posit is a reason for Starfleet scrapping a grade that had been established for at least 100 years.

[...](fleet captain as proposed in World War II was meant for such captains, e.g. aboard aircraft carriers - though it was a substantive grade).

I know Wikipedia claims that, without a citation, but it is baloney. World War II records show quite clearly that there were not multiple captains regularly assigned to aircraft carriers during the war (aside from a possible one or two on a flag officer's staff, which would not be part of the ship's company), the XO and CAG routinely held the rank of commander. Having "extra" O-6 captains assigned is something from the super-carrier era.

Congressional resistance to creating a navy rank without an army equivalent would be substantial, and I have not been able to find any evidence for the Wikipedia claim that a substantive "fleet captain" rank was ever seriously proposed.

--Justin

Thanks. I'd wondered about the additional captains aboard WWII carriers, but every source I've seen regarding "fleet captain" repeated the claim.

 

[Chaos Descending]

However, you're still wrong. The rank/title/position was already in use in other navies when the Royal Navy adopted it, so it didn't originate in the British Royal Navy either.

Well, "commodore" did originate in the Royal Navy, but fair point that was an anglicized version of the Dutch title commandeur.

--Justin

Agreed. I'd say we've successfully split all the hairs we needed to to wind up with a shard we both like.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ That's the trouble with these Commodore threads. All the arguing. Or, to put it another way: People who live in brick hoooooouuuuuuuses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Here's a Commodore topic for you: The Amiga 1000 was superior to its contemporary Macintosh counterpart in every way.

 

[Sector 7]

Here's a Commodore topic for you: The Amiga 1000 was superior to its contemporary Macintosh counterpart in every way.

Another interesting fact: The entire 1969 moon landing could have been completed with one x386 desktop computer. All those rows of computers in Apollo 13 put together were the equivalent of one x386!

 

[Smellincoffee]

In some of the Hornblower books, Hornblower was given an assignment as 'commodore' commanding a flotilla of ships on a given mission while holding the actual rank of post-captain. He was given the commodore title for other missions, too, until he became an admiral.

Could work the same way in Star Trek.

 

[Timo]

Another interesting fact: The entire 1969 moon landing could have been completed with one x386 desktop computer. All those rows of computers in Apollo 13 put together were the equivalent of one x386!

...Of course, a blue screen of death on one x386 would be much more fatal to the astronauts than a hiccup in one out of a hundred pocket calculator -category computers.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Orcus]

Another interesting fact: The entire 1969 moon landing could have been completed with one x386 desktop computer. All those rows of computers in Apollo 13 put together were the equivalent of one x386!

...Of course, a blue screen of death on one x386 would be much more fatal to the astronauts than a hiccup in one out of a hundred pocket calculator -category computers.

Timo Saloniemi

Thanks Timo - I was thinking the same thing when I read it. Unfortunately, you got there first...

 

[Chaos Descending]

Another interesting fact: The entire 1969 moon landing could have been completed with one x386 desktop computer. All those rows of computers in Apollo 13 put together were the equivalent of one x386!

...Of course, a blue screen of death on one x386 would be much more fatal to the astronauts than a hiccup in one out of a hundred pocket calculator -category computers.

Timo Saloniemi

Another interesting fact: The entire 1969 moon landing could have been completed with one x386 desktop computer. All those rows of computers in Apollo 13 put together were the equivalent of one x386!

...Of course, a blue screen of death on one x386 would be much more fatal to the astronauts than a hiccup in one out of a hundred pocket calculator -category computers.

Timo Saloniemi

Thanks Timo - I was thinking the same thing when I read it. Unfortunately, you got there first...

You don't have to use Win95 on that bad boy. Just put Slackware Linux on that sucker and avoid the concomitant WinTel problems altogether!

 

[Kirby]

While he wasn't a Commodore, he was a Commodore spokesman...

55 posts and nobody has yet to bring up the fact that Shatner used to do commercials for Commodore computers?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ One of which appeared in his apartment from ST III.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

^ One of which appeared in his apartment from ST III.

I think it showed up in Star Trek II as well.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Oops, that's right, I forgot. It was in both films.