The racist legacy of Star Trek

[JirinPanthosa]

It's primarily white people on message boards complaining about it because Star Trek has a primarily white audience. Are you going to argue that having a show that statistically appeals more to white people than black people is racist in and of itself? I don't know why black publications didn't report on it, but maybe a three episode old show in a genre disproportionately watched by white people that was seen as a nostalgia show not expected to last half a season wasn't on their radar.

The episode is 'Rapey' because a woman is kidnapped with the explicit intent of forcefully having sex with her.

Why don't you think Michael Dorn's opinion counts though?

As for Jake Sisko:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mardah

Although he is given a dark skinned Bajoran wife in an alternate future.

Not every casting decision is a political statement. Most forehead alien races have the same distribution of skin tone as the general population of Hollywood extras.

 

[AustNerevar]

It's primarily white people on message boards complaining about it because Star Trek has a primarily white audience. Are you going to argue that having a show that statistically appeals more to white people than black people is racist in and of itself? I don't know why black publications didn't report on it, but maybe a three episode old show in a genre disproportionately watched by white people that was seen as a nostalgia show not expected to last half a season wasn't on their radar.

The episode is 'Rapey' because a woman is kidnapped with the explicit intent of forcefully having sex with her.

Why don't you think Michael Dorn's opinion counts though?

As for Jake Sisko:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mardah

Although he is given a dark skinned Bajoran wife in an alternate future.

Not every casting decision is a political statement. Most forehead alien races have the same distribution of skin tone as the general population of Hollywood extras.

I wouldn't take OP seriously, if I were you.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

It's primarily white people on message boards complaining about it because Star Trek has a primarily white audience. Are you going to argue that having a show that statistically appeals more to white people than black people is racist in and of itself? I don't know why black publications didn't report on it, but maybe a three episode old show in a genre disproportionately watched by white people that was seen as a nostalgia show not expected to last half a season wasn't on their radar.

Wasn't on 'their' radar?

What the fuck do you think we watch?

Black people know of Star Trek and sci-fi. We were in the audience watching TNG like the rest of world. When this show premiered it was a big deal especially since LeVar Burton was one of the characters. (And, yes, I knew of Michael Dorn from CHIPS, so I actually was interested in seeing his 'Klingon' character which was supposed to be a 'Starfleet' officer).

And, the black publications are huge as well. If something - for lack of a better term - 'huge' went down with this new TNG show (at the time) that was actually racist, it would have been called out.

Nothing of the sort happened, because - as continually aforementioned - Code of Honor was entertaining and progressive episode rather than the opposite.

And, my 'argument' is that the whites who feel that Code of Honor is the ONLY racist aspect of Trek can't really speak on authority on racial relations. There is obviously more to it that than watching one episode of a fictional sci-fi show and believing they know what's right in terms of race.

Too many of those folks are speaking from 'white privilige.'
http://www.buzzfeed.com/michaelblackmon/17-harrowing-examples-of-white-privilege-9hu9

(Pay attention to #7 and #17).

The interesting thing is when a person of color like myself does bring out racism in Trek, it's the classic 'you'll find anywhere if you really look for it.' (As if something isn't racist unless whites declare it racism).

So, yeah, as I mentioned in my previous post (which you seemed to have glossed over) there needs to be more people behind the scenes to bring even a more diverse crowd so the faux pas of the past can be a bit more diversified.

The episode is 'Rapey' because a woman is kidnapped with the explicit intent of forcefully having sex with her.

Meh, we don't know that. A black man liking a white female is not suddenly 'rapey.'

Too, I noticed that you even made the comment that ALL the Ligonians enamored with Tasha Yar because of her whiteness.

That's obviously not true And, if you believe that....you didn't watch the episode or you're just hanging onto a falsehood to fuel your opinion that the episode is racist for whatever reason.

That's like me saying all the Asian females on the show want to be white because they are always paired with only white men. Never paired black men, never Asian men.

If you actually watched Code of Honor, you would have known that:

1. Yareena disliked Yar because Lutan wanted the Enterprise lieutenant. And, Lutan's right hand - I forget his name - turned out to love Yareena.

2. Lutan is the ONLY one who is enamored with Yar. No one else in the episode noticed her. So, your comment about EVERYONE on the planet liking her is false and exaggerated and silly.

Is everyone on Earth enamored with Angelina Jolie? No. Partly because not everyone knows who she is, or even cares....or even think she's someone to be enamored with!

Why don't you think Michael Dorn's opinion counts though?

I already answered that above.

As for Jake Sisko:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mardah

Although he is given a dark skinned Bajoran wife in an alternate future.

A rare exception!

Not every casting decision is a political statement. Most forehead alien races have the same distribution of skin tone as the general population of Hollywood extras.

That's why Code of Honor is such an excellent episode. With the Ligonians, it's shows us there are different shades of people in the universe, with different cultures...and outlooks.

You have some people - mainly white individuals - probably putting their own racial hangups on this particular episode.

I remember when Code of Honor first aired, I thought to myself "Hey, that's pretty cool, Star Trek never did this before!" It made total sense to me that elsewhere in the galaxy, there would be aliens of all colors. And speaking of colors, I liked the colorful costumes, and a society with a strict moral code the crew had to work around. I didn't understand the light pillars shooting up into the sky, though.

Sometimes they hired really tall actors for a species. I think I remember reading that they hired actors with skinny necks for Cardassians (something to do with the make-up). Ferengi were played by small guys. I'm sure there are other instances of hiring specific physical types. So it was with Code... , so I don't see the problem.

Very good post.

 

[ichab]

I never chime in on race-related things, mainly because I see no difference in people. It occurred to me recently that when I was a little kid, my favorite comic book characters were the Falcon and the Black Panther. I didn't care what danged color they were...they were just good guys.

For what it's worth, I'm convinced that Star Trek helped my little kid mind form its world view. Kirk's remark to Alexander in Plato's Stepchildren about "Where I come from, size, shape and color makes no difference." really resonated with me.

Modern media is so pathologically obsessed with portraying so-called divisions (white/black/rich/poor/right/left/male/female) that it's reached way beyond absurd, and I'm sure does far more harm than good. I refuse to play that game.

In Star Trek II, Captain Terrell made the ultimate sacrifice to basically defeat the plan of Khan. He didn't "fail to serve his master"...in his own way he beat him!

Agreed. At first I thought this was a parody thread or something and was surprised to find it was serious. No other show pushed harder in the 60s for equality than Star Trek did. Even Martin Luther King himself loved the show. And through each incarnation of the show you saw them pushing the boundaries of social acceptance whether it was a blind man as a chief engineer, a black man as a captain, a black Vulcan, or a woman in charge of voyager. You have to really be looking for racism around every corner to consider Star Trek racist. You also have to be very ignorant of what the television competition was airing.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I never chime in on race-related things, mainly because I see no difference in people. It occurred to me recently that when I was a little kid, my favorite comic book characters were the Falcon and the Black Panther. I didn't care what danged color they were...they were just good guys.

For what it's worth, I'm convinced that Star Trek helped my little kid mind form its world view. Kirk's remark to Alexander in Plato's Stepchildren about "Where I come from, size, shape and color makes no difference." really resonated with me.

Modern media is so pathologically obsessed with portraying so-called divisions (white/black/rich/poor/right/left/male/female) that it's reached way beyond absurd, and I'm sure does far more harm than good. I refuse to play that game.

In Star Trek II, Captain Terrell made the ultimate sacrifice to basically defeat the plan of Khan. He didn't "fail to serve his master"...in his own way he beat him!

Agreed. At first I thought this was a parody thread or something and was surprised to find it was serious. No other show pushed harder in the 60s for equality than Star Trek did. Even Martin Luther King himself loved the show. And through each incarnation of the show you saw them pushing the boundaries of social acceptance whether it was a blind man as a chief engineer, a black man as a captain, a black Vulcan, or a woman in charge of voyager. You have to really be looking for racism around every corner to consider Star Trek racist. You also have to be very ignorant of what the television competition was airing.

"You have to really be looking for racism around every corner to consider Star Trek racist."

That seems to be a common/favorite saying.

For me, it's not Star Trek as a whole, but certain aspects of it that are questionable.

 

[Salinga]

Star Trek is racist against blacks as long as there are more white people than blacks. And after that has changed it is of course racist against whites.

So we come to the conclusion: Star Trek is always racist. For ever.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

(Pay attention to #7 and #17).

This is exactly the sort of thing that led me to cancelling my cable tv...



It's just so condescending, it drives me up a wall. Also, can't someone win a Mayoral election, be appointed to some important position, or what have you, without being called out as "the first African-American" or "the first woman" or "first Latino" to have done so?

These people on television are always subdividing people by income level, too. You know, "Those who earn less than 50,000 a year" kind of thing. Always generalizing everyone...and it's been my experience that when you try to speak for everyone, you end up speaking for no one.

 

[AustNerevar]

"You have to really be looking for racism around every corner to consider Star Trek racist."

That seems to be a common/favorite saying.

For me, it's not Star Trek as a whole, but certain aspects of it that are questionable.

I agree. This thread was really stretching to make connections between Trek and racism. That's why I'm pretty sure OP was just making stuff up to start a flame war or it's all satire.

I never reall though Code of Honor was racist either. But then I've seen some of the later writers (ones who weren't around when Code was written) claim that the episode was a bit racist and shouldn't have been done. Which confused me and made me feel like I was missing something.

For what it's worth, white people can racially discriminated against as well, though, it varies in different parts of the world. Which is something I felt was left out when your earlier post claimed that white people don't have any authority to speak about racism. But that may have just not been relevant to your train of thought.

One thing I love about watching classic Trek is the forward thinking. Here we were, during the Civil Rights movement, during the middle of a tense Cold War with Russia, with a black female Lieutenant communications officer, on the bridge holding equal rank and peer relationships with white men, a Russian ensign, an Asian helmsman, and a logical alien. And the subject of race is never brought up. Uhura and Sulu are never treated any differently than any other crew member. Even the casual racism that you saw in everyday television (that sometimes was progressive even then) wasn't really prevalent in Star Trek. From the get-go, Uhura was a valued officer on the bridge.

Another thing, in the pilot, the first officer was a woman. It gets me when people say TOS was sexist because it focused on sex a lot. It did do that, but it didn't objectify all women as only sex objects. The first officer before Spock, was a woman and she wasn't treated as a sex object. Lt. Uhura was a very important bridge officer. Putting aside Turnabout Intruder (which has been all but decanonized by Enterprise) there was nothing to suggest that women couldn't go as far in Starfleet as any of the men could.

Star Trek is beautiful to me, for these reasons. It has always been ahead of its time.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

Kirk told it like it is to Stiles: "Leave any bigotry in your quarters. There's no room for it on the bridge."

 

[Joel_Kirk]

(Pay attention to #7 and #17).

This is exactly the sort of thing that led me to cancelling my cable tv...



It's just so condescending, it drives me up a wall. Also, can't someone win a Mayoral election, be appointed to some important position, or what have you, without being called out as "the first African-American" or "the first woman" or "first Latino" to have done so?

These people on television are always subdividing people by income level, too. You know, "Those who earn less than 50,000 a year" kind of thing. Always generalizing everyone...and it's been my experience that when you try to speak for everyone, you end up speaking for no one.

True...true...

"You have to really be looking for racism around every corner to consider Star Trek racist."

That seems to be a common/favorite saying.

For me, it's not Star Trek as a whole, but certain aspects of it that are questionable.

I agree. This thread was really stretching to make connections between Trek and racism. That's why I'm pretty sure OP was just making stuff up to start a flame war or it's all satire.

I think it was a white male trying to start a flame war. It happens on Youtube, it happens on IMDB.

Online, people feel that they can hide behind a computer and do whatever.

Still, within that satirical post, there are some interesting points to be made.

I never really though Code of Honor was racist either. But then I've seen some of the later writers (ones who weren't around when Code was written) claim that the episode was a bit racist and shouldn't have been done. Which confused me and made me feel like I was missing something.

For what it's worth, white people can racially discriminated against as well, though, it varies in different parts of the world. Which is something I felt was left out when your earlier post claimed that white people don't have any authority to speak about racism. But that may have just not been relevant to your train of thought.

Well, let me answer that: Yes, white people can be discriminated against. It has happened in Asia, as well as Africa. However, since American media - not predominately run by people of color - has such a strong influence on the world, that partly is responsible for the white institutional presence that permeates not only America, Europe, but Africa and Asia...and Latin America.

That white institutional presence influences standards of beauty, standards of what should be racist and what shouldn't. Or, how people should be treated. Or, which interracial relationships are controversial or not...(ex: a black man opposite a non-black woman is suddenly a need for discussion on race, but a white man opposite an Asian woman is 'normal' or non-controversial).

There is a reason why some people of color change their skin, nose, hair....or feel that 'white is right.'

I've experienced racism from an author/former instructor - Asian female married to a white man - who didn't like me writing stories about black men opposite Asian and Eurasian women. (When I finally publish my story with a black man opposite a Eurasian girl I'm going to send it to her a copy).

Yeah, white people are discriminated against....but overall they're benefiting from 'white privilege.' In most cases, a white person being discriminated against is not going to be the same as a black person being discriminated against.

One thing I love about watching classic Trek is the forward thinking. Here we were, during the Civil Rights movement, during the middle of a tense Cold War with Russia, with a black female Lieutenant communications officer, on the bridge holding equal rank and peer relationships with white men, a Russian ensign, an Asian helmsman, and a logical alien. And the subject of race is never brought up. Uhura and Sulu are never treated any differently than any other crew member. Even the casual racism that you saw in everyday television (that sometimes was progressive even then) wasn't really prevalent in Star Trek. From the get-go, Uhura was a valued officer on the bridge.

Another thing, in the pilot, the first officer was a woman. It gets me when people say TOS was sexist because it focused on sex a lot. It did do that, but it didn't objectify all women as only sex objects. The first officer before Spock, was a woman and she wasn't treated as a sex object. Lt. Uhura was a very important bridge officer. Putting aside Turnabout Intruder (which has been all but decanonized by Enterprise) there was nothing to suggest that women couldn't go as far in Starfleet as any of the men could.

Star Trek is beautiful to me, for these reasons. It has always been ahead of its time.

The idea of a forward society is there. Overall, Star Trek isn't racist or sexist. It's just certain things - again, because of the people behind the scenes - that are questionable because there weren't or aren't a diverse group of voices out there.

However, with that said: We're still talking about it - Star Trek - today, which is obvious how much of an impact the franchise has been. And, I feel over time it's probably going to go through more changes....or it can be changed depending who is running the show or contributing to the show. And, whether or not it can truly build on that idea of a forward society or continue with the 'questionable things' remains to be seen.

 

[Armored Saint]

I do seem toremember in one book that TNG was considered White America in space--but that was stretching it.

Star Trek has ever been quite US-centric, but not enough to consider TNG as White America in space (The Omega Glory yes, of course ).

As I arealdy said in another topic, STIV was more plurastic than former movies: the Saratoga's Captain (of course), the Yorktown's Captain (a stong "exotic" and real accent), a lot of alien extras.

Perhaps the most stretchy analysis about ethno-raciality in Star Trek is the emphazis on fact some people shown on screen are all blonde and blue eyes (the Edos or the Hill people from Neural). It' really close to Godwin.

 

[T'Girl]

I remember when Code of Honor first aired, I thought to myself "Hey, that's pretty cool, Star Trek never did this before!"

My thoughts as well, they should have had more "black planets," also arab planets, east asian planets, india planets, latin planets ...

The episode is 'Rapey' because a woman is kidnapped with the explicit intent of forcefully having sex with her.

You've completely misunderstood the episode.

Lutan wanted Yar to fight and kill his wife Yareena, Lutan had absolutely no personal or sexual interest in Yar. Any interest Lutan showed toward Yar was a pretense to insight Yareena's jealousy, so that she would challenge Yar to a duel.

By dialog, Lutan had tried this before, but Yareena kept killing her opponents.

This (the duel) was the only way in their society that Lutan could directly gain his wife's power and wealth.

Interesting point though about most black actors are romantically paired with other black actors, that's probably the best argument or actual racism raised in this thread.

I noticed this with Ben Sisko, both his wives were black, and alien romances too (but he did screw mirror Dax).

Most forehead alien races have the same distribution of skin tone as the general population of Hollywood extras.

Racial composition of Los Angeles in 1990 was about 53% white, that isn't what we saw on the show in terms of promanate guest stars.

 

[Maurice]

^^^
Do you mean "prominent"? "Promanate" is an Italian verb for "issue, spread, distribute".

 

[martok2112]

Star Trek is far from racist, and in one particular TOS ep, even used a bit of dialogue to show that racism (at least on Earth) had been eliminated.

In "The Savage Curtain" the persona of Abraham Lincoln meets Uhura, and refers to her, quite gently, and without intention of offense as "a charming negress". He then apologizes to her, stating that he realized that such a phrase often meant something offensive to her and her people. Uhura simply smiles and says something to the effect of "Why should I be offended, sir? It is not a misnomer.". (as I said....words to that effect).

However, as it is shown in later series, racism has not been eliminated when it comes to interstellar relations. Some Starfleet officers had epithets for Cardassians....spoonheads, I believe.

 

[T'Girl]

Promanate" is an Italian verb for "issue, spread, distribute".

Yes, that was the problem, the show wasn't "issued" enough yellow, brown and black people.

Those requisition forms could be a bitch.

 

[HIjol]

Definition of racism (n)

Bing Dictionary
ra·cism
[ ráy sìzzəm ]

1. animosity toward other races: prejudice or animosity against people who belong to other races
2. belief in racial superiority: the belief that people of different races have different qualities and abilities, and that some races are inherently superior or inferior

...only examples of the above definitions I can think of in Star Trek were exhibited by the extra-terrestrials...

...and it seems to me we forgot about the OP about 300 pages ago...good thing

...and I am still proud and impressed with you Posters and this Board...Huzzah to you all...especially all you Purps (Purple People)

 

[Forbin]

Coming in at the end, with no time to read 11 pages of probably very entertaining posts, but my immediate reaction to the OP was - how the hell is Khan a "white guy?" A Mexican actor playing an Indian character is a white guy?

 

[Yanks]

The only time I personally felt Star Trek was "racist" (or more accurately was "WTF"...) was TNG's episode Code of Honour.

Uhura took part in many firsts in TV abeit she didn't get alot of meat with that part, but that's 60's TV, not trek in my opinion.

Geordi was another major position, Chief Engineer is nothing to spit at. I do think they would have given him "more" but his acting didn't quite allow that.

Sisko - first black Commanding Officer to anchor a series.

Travis in Enterprise, another smaller part but positionally important. Like Uhura, he just wasn't part of the "big three".

Don't agree with much of anything in OP, but this should always be an open topic.

Don't forget trek also gave us the first woman Commanding Officer to anchor a series.

Trek has done lots of thing right, some wrong, but to say it is inherently racist is nuts if you ask me.

 

[AustNerevar]

Coming in at the end, with no time to read 11 pages of probably very entertaining posts, but my immediate reaction to the OP was - how the hell is Khan a "white guy?" A Mexican actor playing an Indian character is a white guy?

Maybe JJ Abrams or Bob Orci is actually OP?

They cast nuKhan as English allegedly because they thought it would be racist to "demonize anyone of color".

 

[Nerys Myk]

Coming in at the end, with no time to read 11 pages of probably very entertaining posts, but my immediate reaction to the OP was - how the hell is Khan a "white guy?" A Mexican actor playing an Indian character is a white guy?

Maybe JJ Abrams or Bob Orci is actually OP?

They cast nuKhan as English allegedly because they thought it would be racist to "demonize anyone of color".

Well, Orci is a Mexican, so maybe that was a factor.

As for Forbin's question, "White" expands and contracts as needed.