The racist legacy of Star Trek
- Thread starter Afrika Bambaata
- Start date
Back on topic ...
You don't necessarily have to be "color blind." Treat every person you meet as an individual, unique in his own experience. It's that simple. When we start putting people into groups things start to get complicated, and can turn ugly in a hurry.
That's my nugget of wisdom for the day.
You don't necessarily have to be "color blind." Treat every person you meet as an individual, unique in his own experience. It's that simple. When we start putting people into groups things start to get complicated, and can turn ugly in a hurry.
That's my nugget of wisdom for the day.
Sorry for the ephemera on a thread with this kind of significance, nominally anyway, but Uhura's role definitely had that tinge as well, in Mirror, Mirror, which I don't think is the episode you're referencing.
Uhura: Any number of listings (I personally read the first 10) when I Googled "did MLK and Nichelle have a conversation?"...they most certainly did...just like she said...and, I also learned that there was a "black/white"'romance story line with her when she was in "The Lieutenants" that was not allowed to air because of the time and the content...Roddenberry was later quoted as lamenting this, and being determined to make Star Trek as diverse as he was possibly able...
C-3PO...Lucas was a product of his time...Laurel and Hardy, Abbot and Costello, Lenny and George, etc. ...remember, 3PO had a "last name"... Human Cyborg Relations...so he would have been butler/servile-like in his role as translator...Lucas probably LOVED how that whole persona came out...
Troll post or not, each and every one of you Posters should be pleased and proud of your passion and clarity on this topic...I would argue it is the Seminal Human Subject from which all else follows...not disability, not intellect, not region or geography...
...Color
...you can all hold your heads up with the importance and respect you have treated this topic with...I have read every post and am proud of this community...
John
P.S. ...definition of "racism"...
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
C-3PO...Lucas was a product of his time...Laurel and Hardy, Abbot and Costello, Lenny and George, etc. ...remember, 3PO had a "last name"... Human Cyborg Relations...so he would have been butler/servile-like in his role as translator...Lucas probably LOVED how that whole persona came out...
Troll post or not, each and every one of you Posters should be pleased and proud of your passion and clarity on this topic...I would argue it is the Seminal Human Subject from which all else follows...not disability, not intellect, not region or geography...
...Color
...you can all hold your heads up with the importance and respect you have treated this topic with...I have read every post and am proud of this community...
John
P.S. ...definition of "racism"...
: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
Seems it worked.
No, what "worked" was that our community took what was a very antagonistic opening post and turned it into what for the most part is a very healthy discussion.
It's one of the best things about this BBS.
Also in DS9, in Past Tense we see that the entire moral future of the human race was saved when a black man sacrificed his life to prevent his protest from becoming lethal.
It's probably a myth that the episode in question, "To Set It Right", was not aired. According to IMDB it premiered on Feb 22, 1964, and is also listed on the website TV Tango on that date and at 8pm.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0631555/releaseinfo?ref_=tt_dt_dt
http://www.tvtango.com/listings?
I don't know. Whatever elicits this
And the opening scene in Kevin Smith's "Chasing Amy" featuring Hooper-X addresses this issue in a remarkable way (it's a must-see - and apparently was the inspiration for the OP and Locutus...)
whether folly, foolishness, or just plain FUBAR, can't be all bad!!!!
Thank you! I wanted to post this, but couldn't remember his name.
As you said, he was no mere doctor, but a specialist!Thank you! I wanted to post this, but couldn't remember his name.
[SATIRE]
See, man! You racist! You a racist!
Can't even remember da' name of a prominent, emminent, and pretty important black man in da' Star Trek universe! M'benga, man! M'benga! You know.....strong, black African brotha with a strong, black African name!
Scream his name, white boy! Scream his naaaaaaame!
[/SATIRE]
I keeed! I keeeeeeeeeed! 
Interesting discussion.
Star Trek has definitely had its racial issues, and I think that comes down to the fact that for a long time it has primarily been white males behind-the-scenes. Ironically, I think that AbramsTrek (for it's shortcomings in the writing area) has at least done some progress with the Uhura character. She has become pretty prominent. If we were to actually see her take command temporarily, I might give this franchise even more respect.
While John Cho seems to be a supporting character, he did have some scenes where he shined (e.g. the fight on the drill in the 2009 film, and the scenes where he took temporary command in the 2013).
I remember when I first saw episode Code of Honor in TNG, I was pretty impressed to see a predominantly black planet. Yet, years down the line I hear whites complaining about the supposed racism.
Of course, we never saw a predominantly black planet again, or any reference or expansion of the Ligionians. We're regulated to the predominantly white humanoid planets and aliens that look like white men and women, which no one (primarily whites) have a problem with.
Some of the complaints were:
1. The Ligonians are 'tribal.' (Well, newsflash: There are 'tribal' people in Asia, Africa, and South America. Are you going to tell them their lifestyle is 'racist?')
2. The fact that Tasha Yar is attracted to an alien that looks like a black man is 'racist.' (Hmmm, a black man and white female being together is racist, yet no one has a problem with every Asian woman being paired with primarily white males. Apparently, interracial relationships are wrong unless you are a certain gender or race).
3. Michael Dorn and Brent Spiner say that this particular episode is racist. (So? Michael Dorn was portraying a character that used violence over intelligence primarily in the first season, so he really shouldn't talk. And, I really don't care Spinder says. As a person, a black man, who has dealt with racism, this particular episode is far from it).
Star Trek during the Berman-era probably wouldn't have had the balls to have a black male lead opposite a non-black woman (e.g. Asian, Eurasian, white, or Native American. I won't say 'Latino' since that is an ethnicity and a Latino can be black or white) unless that male was under heavy makeup like Michael Dorn was with Worf.
Too, if the episode was soooo disgustingly racist, why didn't we - black people - hear anything in the American publications such as Jet, Ebony, or Essence?
I did find it interesting that there was an unwritten 'stay with your own kind' in the Berman era. For example, Geordi was a loser with women. He was nearly successful with an alien that was obviously portrayed by a black woman (e.g Aquiel).
Tuvok was a Vulcan, but it was obvious he was portrayed by a black man. Interestingly, they had to have a black woman portray his wife.
Jake Sisko, even though he dated Bajoran women - women who looked like human women, only with funny noses - the women were always portrayed by black women. And, yes, I am aware of Brooks requesting a black woman for Jennifer and Kasidy Yates. (I wonder if the next actor to portray Sisko in a hypothetical reboot will request an Asian woman or a Eurasian woman as Kasidy Yates or Jennifer Sisko? Where Jennifer Sisko is not killed?)
There is a reason I want to get into the film/tv business because we definitely need diversity in voices not only in terms of race, but in gender, sexual orientation, etc. (And, Star Trek still has a need for a gay or lesbian character!)
So many shows have already beat Trek with having characters in same sex relationships, and other shows have also put black men (and black women) in strong relationships with various individuals (e.g. the upcoming show, The Flash, Justice League: Unlimited, Private Practice, and the Cheerios commercial that depicted a married black male/white female couple as a normal thing).
Going back to AbramsTrek: At least it knows that change is needed. This is probably the issue with 'Code of Honor' - there's too many black people! T-that's racist! - where many whites that were used to a status quo were put off. And, of course they want to use the Spiner and Dorn opinions, as well as the director who had some agenda as ammunition for claims of racism....even though he - the director for 'Code of Honor' managed to actually make an entertaining and progressive episode.
As people want to see heroes of different colors, and various relationships onscreen, women looking sexy and kicking ass, we'll have people like myself working on their craft so they can bring something different to the table.
Star Trek has definitely had its racial issues, and I think that comes down to the fact that for a long time it has primarily been white males behind-the-scenes. Ironically, I think that AbramsTrek (for it's shortcomings in the writing area) has at least done some progress with the Uhura character. She has become pretty prominent. If we were to actually see her take command temporarily, I might give this franchise even more respect.
While John Cho seems to be a supporting character, he did have some scenes where he shined (e.g. the fight on the drill in the 2009 film, and the scenes where he took temporary command in the 2013).
I remember when I first saw episode Code of Honor in TNG, I was pretty impressed to see a predominantly black planet. Yet, years down the line I hear whites complaining about the supposed racism.
Of course, we never saw a predominantly black planet again, or any reference or expansion of the Ligionians. We're regulated to the predominantly white humanoid planets and aliens that look like white men and women, which no one (primarily whites) have a problem with.
Some of the complaints were:
1. The Ligonians are 'tribal.' (Well, newsflash: There are 'tribal' people in Asia, Africa, and South America. Are you going to tell them their lifestyle is 'racist?')
2. The fact that Tasha Yar is attracted to an alien that looks like a black man is 'racist.' (Hmmm, a black man and white female being together is racist, yet no one has a problem with every Asian woman being paired with primarily white males. Apparently, interracial relationships are wrong unless you are a certain gender or race).
3. Michael Dorn and Brent Spiner say that this particular episode is racist. (So? Michael Dorn was portraying a character that used violence over intelligence primarily in the first season, so he really shouldn't talk. And, I really don't care Spinder says. As a person, a black man, who has dealt with racism, this particular episode is far from it).
Star Trek during the Berman-era probably wouldn't have had the balls to have a black male lead opposite a non-black woman (e.g. Asian, Eurasian, white, or Native American. I won't say 'Latino' since that is an ethnicity and a Latino can be black or white) unless that male was under heavy makeup like Michael Dorn was with Worf.
Too, if the episode was soooo disgustingly racist, why didn't we - black people - hear anything in the American publications such as Jet, Ebony, or Essence?
I did find it interesting that there was an unwritten 'stay with your own kind' in the Berman era. For example, Geordi was a loser with women. He was nearly successful with an alien that was obviously portrayed by a black woman (e.g Aquiel).
Tuvok was a Vulcan, but it was obvious he was portrayed by a black man. Interestingly, they had to have a black woman portray his wife.
Jake Sisko, even though he dated Bajoran women - women who looked like human women, only with funny noses - the women were always portrayed by black women. And, yes, I am aware of Brooks requesting a black woman for Jennifer and Kasidy Yates. (I wonder if the next actor to portray Sisko in a hypothetical reboot will request an Asian woman or a Eurasian woman as Kasidy Yates or Jennifer Sisko? Where Jennifer Sisko is not killed?)
There is a reason I want to get into the film/tv business because we definitely need diversity in voices not only in terms of race, but in gender, sexual orientation, etc. (And, Star Trek still has a need for a gay or lesbian character!)
So many shows have already beat Trek with having characters in same sex relationships, and other shows have also put black men (and black women) in strong relationships with various individuals (e.g. the upcoming show, The Flash, Justice League: Unlimited, Private Practice, and the Cheerios commercial that depicted a married black male/white female couple as a normal thing).
Going back to AbramsTrek: At least it knows that change is needed. This is probably the issue with 'Code of Honor' - there's too many black people! T-that's racist! - where many whites that were used to a status quo were put off. And, of course they want to use the Spiner and Dorn opinions, as well as the director who had some agenda as ammunition for claims of racism....even though he - the director for 'Code of Honor' managed to actually make an entertaining and progressive episode.
As people want to see heroes of different colors, and various relationships onscreen, women looking sexy and kicking ass, we'll have people like myself working on their craft so they can bring something different to the table.
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Neither of those are the actual complaints about the episode. If the episode were about Tasha being attracted to him, there would be no problem. Tasha is kidnapped by a black skinned alien who thinks that because he 'Won her fairly' that he is entitled by his 'Ancient customs' to coerce her into marriage, after which due to those customs she is made to fight a battle to the death with his existing wife.
The one TNG episode with a planet of predominantly black people and it's the most rapey episode in the series, portraying them as putting arcane tribal traditions and superstitions over basic human rights and respect for women.
The episode got a pass because it was 1987 and that kind of thing was kind of expected on television. If an episode like that came out today that internet would be exploding with outrage about it.
Interesting point though about most black actors are romantically paired with other black actors, that's probably the best argument or actual racism raised in this thread. Although, Worf's two primary love interests were both white women. Leah Brahms is white, and Worf's white adoptive brother marries a black skinned alien. And Jake dates a white skinned dabo girl. There are plenty of examples in the series of actors of one race being romantically paired with actors of other races. And other than in Code of Honor, none of those examples are rapey.
Yeah, but who would be outraged? Butthurt - a new term I found out about - Star Trek 'fans' on Trek boards?
It's pretty harmless, I think.
If it was made today, I would hope the writing would be stronger. And, I would possibly have liked to see the Ligonians used again in some capacity.
Moreover, it - the episode - didn't get a pass, because as I mentioned in my previous post: If it was actually racist, black publications would have been calling the episode out.
No black publications did that.
The only commotion I hear of is mainly from white people on Star Trek boards complaining.
Hmm...
*Worf is an alien, a black man/performer under heavy makeup that makes him look like a cross between a turtle and dog. He is not a 'black' character.
*Leah Brahms was a computer program, and she turned out to be married when LaForge met the actual individual. (It's not clear whether or not 'Leah' is the woman LaForge marries in on alternate timeline since we don't see her).
*I do vaguely recall Worf's adopted brother marrying a black skinned alien. However, I don't recall any 'white skinned' alien opposite Jake Sisko - maybe she was a mixed race actress? (Contrary to belief, 'black' people come in all shades).
And, I'm going to disagree on the 'plenty' of examples since, in regards to black performers, there is only one (maybe two) out of the franchise - mainly Worf's adopted brother - among the ones you mentioned.
And, what do you mean by 'rapey'? (What does that mean?)
Lastly, I want to post this on my Facebook (so my fellow black people can see some what is going on in the Trek fan world). Is there, like, a permalink or something?
EDIT: Ah! I see the Facebook link below.
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I remember when Code of Honor first aired, I thought to myself "Hey, that's pretty cool, Star Trek never did this before!" It made total sense to me that elsewhere in the galaxy, there would be aliens of all colors. And speaking of colors, I liked the colorful costumes, and a society with a strict moral code the crew had to work around. I didn't understand the light pillars shooting up into the sky, though. 
Sometimes they hired really tall actors for a species. I think I remember reading that they hired actors with skinny necks for Cardassians (something to do with the make-up). Ferengi were played by small guys. I'm sure there are other instances of hiring specific physical types. So it was with Code... , so I don't see the problem.
Sometimes they hired really tall actors for a species. I think I remember reading that they hired actors with skinny necks for Cardassians (something to do with the make-up). Ferengi were played by small guys. I'm sure there are other instances of hiring specific physical types. So it was with Code... , so I don't see the problem.
The franchise as a whole is clearly racist against aliens, because all of the major on-screen aliens are always portrayed by humans, as uglier versions of humans, and those that don't have humanoid forms (bipedal, opposable thumbs, etc.) aren't depicted as much as those with unique physiology different than our own, and when such species are shown, they're nearly always sinister.
The problem is there just aren't enough alien actors!
I can't find a single one with a unique physiology on IMDb!
And those that are aliens, have human features, like Ted Raimi.
(Clearly, I'm joking.
Except the Raimi part.)
The problem is there just aren't enough alien actors!
I can't find a single one with a unique physiology on IMDb!
And those that are aliens, have human features, like Ted Raimi.
(Clearly, I'm joking.
Except the Raimi part.)
Well whaddaya want me to do? Call the NAAACP (The National Association for the Advancement of Astro-Celestial Persons)?
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