The question of God or a higher power in ST

[Grendelsbayne]

I thought it was pretty clear that the Emissary's role included a lot of different things - not just finding the celestial temple and being the 'first' to talk to the prophets.

Through his connection to the prophets, Sisko saved Bajor from Dominion occupation, rediscovered an ancient lost city, and faced down the pah-wraiths on multiple occassions. And the series pretty much stated flat out that all that was only the beginning of his destiny (that being the reason he never returns from the fire caves).

 

[Infern0]

I think the real question is what does god need with a starship

 

[T'Girl]

^ Disregarding that Sisko actually was the emissary, and was brought into existance by the Prophets to be the emissary.

Actually, that's disregarding that Sisko was a Starfleet officer on a mission for the Federation. The whole Emissary business was a Bajoran internal thing and not the reason why Starfleet sent him there.

And ultimately why did Starfleet send Sisko, of all the possible qualified officers, to Bajor?

You believe it to be a pure coincidence?

I thought it was pretty clear that the Emissary's role included a lot of different things - not just finding the celestial temple and being the 'first' to talk to the prophets.

Part of Sisko's "duties' as the Emissary was to convince the Prophets to stop the Dominion fleet within the passage, if the Prophets hadn't done so Bajor would have been harmed and the Federation (Bajor's protectors) easily could have lost the war and been destroyed.

The Prophets created Sisko, so Sisko would subsequently convince them to act.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

I thought it was pretty clear that the Emissary's role included a lot of different things - not just finding the celestial temple and being the 'first' to talk to the prophets.

Part of Sisko's "duties' as the Emissary was to convince the Prophets to stop the Dominion fleet within the passage, if the Prophets hadn't done so Bajor would have been harmed and the Federation (Bajor's protectors) easily could have lost the war and been destroyed.

In that case, Sisko was more the Emissary (or at least advocate) to the Bajorans than to the prophets.

 

[C.E. Evans]

^ Disregarding that Sisko actually was the emissary, and was brought into existance by the Prophets to be the emissary.

Actually, that's disregarding that Sisko was a Starfleet officer on a mission for the Federation. The whole Emissary business was a Bajoran internal thing and not the reason why Starfleet sent him there.

And ultimately why did Starfleet send Sisko, of all the possible qualified officers, to Bajor?

To be the commander of an abandoned and somewhat rundown Cardassian space station that would serve as the base of operations for Bajor's post-occupation recovery effort.

It was far from being a glorious assignment, originally, but it would be a step forward again for an officer that had been spinning his wheels for three years at the Utopia Planitia Yards.

You believe it to be a pure coincidence?

Yes, originally. The Wormhole aliens/prophets didn't meet Sisko until after he arrived on DS9 and at first didn't know a single thing about him (they even considered destroying him). But being non-linear beings, they later used the Past to reinforce him as their Emissary. For them, the Past is no different than the Future or the Present, all of it is fluid, but it was Sisko that taught them what Cause and Effect was--even if they sometimes get it backwards.

 

[T'Girl]

^YMMV.

 

[Robert Comsol]

I think the real question is what does god need with a starship

He did not. What we saw in ST V was probably another Q who had been imprisoned on that god-forsaken planet and deprived of most of his higher powers.

Bob

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Part of Sisko's "duties' as the Emissary was to convince the Prophets to stop the Dominion fleet within the passage, if the Prophets hadn't done so Bajor would have been harmed and the Federation (Bajor's protectors) easily could have lost the war and been destroyed.

In that case, Sisko was more the Emissary (or at least advocate) to the Bajorans than to the prophets.

The Prophets are 'of Bajor' and have shown themselves to be specifically concerned with Bajor (and no one else) throughout their entire history (as far as we know). So what exactly would be the actual difference between Emissary to the Bajorans and Emissary to the Prophets?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Part of Sisko's "duties' as the Emissary was to convince the Prophets to stop the Dominion fleet within the passage, if the Prophets hadn't done so Bajor would have been harmed and the Federation (Bajor's protectors) easily could have lost the war and been destroyed.

In that case, Sisko was more the Emissary (or at least advocate) to the Bajorans than to the prophets.

The Prophets are 'of Bajor' and have shown themselves to be specifically concerned with Bajor (and no one else) throughout their entire history (as far as we know). So what exactly would be the actual difference between Emissary to the Bajorans and Emissary to the Prophets?

Emissary has the sense of being a representative to a specific person or group who is tasked with a specific mission. Being the prophets' emissary means that he does their bidding and delivers their message. In SOA, his role is reversed: he advocates for the interest of the contemporary Bajorans, not the former Bajorans. It's not clear that they intended "the Sisko" to perform this function, and it's not clear that up to this point, the Prophets would intervene in corporeal affairs in such a way to protect Bajor (they hadn't intervened in the occupation, for instance).

 

[Grendelsbayne]

I think you're reading a little too much into the title 'Emissary', which, as far as I can see, was never supposed to be anything other than a moderately original sounding version of the many religious titles we're all familiar with today

And as for Sisko convincing the Prophets to do things sometimes - I'm not sure what's all that remarkable about it. It's clear from the beginning that the Prophets do not demand absolute loyalty from him. He's always been free to continue his life in Starfleet - even to marry Kassidy and go to Cardassia, despite being warned by the Prophets not to do so. So he obviously doesn't fit into the kind of classic religious archetype wherein he can't ever defy his 'gods' without suffering their wrath.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

^I fully understand that there is no formality to what Sisko does with regard to Bajoran religion. However, if you don't understand how I am using the word--my turn of phrase--, than it must be explained to you.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

^ I guess what I'm saying is: I understand it. I just don't understand why it's relevant.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

^I'm suggesting that the Prophets tend to imagine their relationship with Bajor differently than Bajorans do, and that in spite of their goodwill (and, in general, their good results), they still tend to be paternalistic. They don't see things in the same terms as Bajorans, and it's not clear that they believe that they need to. That's why she shift in Sisko's role, which I have illustrated rhetorically as becoming the emissary to the Bajorans, represented a challenge to their way of thinking and, possibly, a change in the way they relate to Bajor.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

^I'm suggesting that the Prophets tend to imagine their relationship with Bajor differently than Bajorans do, and that in spite of their goodwill (and, in general, their good results), they still tend to be paternalistic. They don't see things in the same terms as Bajorans, and it's not clear that they believe that they need to. That's why she shift in Sisko's role, which I have illustrated rhetorically as becoming the emissary to the Bajorans, represented a challenge to their way of thinking and, possibly, a change in the way they relate to Bajor.

Oh, ok. That makes a lot of sense, thinking about it.