To communicate with Bajor. Once they found their Emissary they no longer sent Orbs and communicated through The Sisko.
The Q or the Prophets?
- Thread starter Nightdiamond
- Start date
To communicate with Bajor. Once they found their Emissary they no longer sent Orbs and communicated through The Sisko.
It has to be the Q: They are omniscient and omnipotent. I don't believe that the Prophets are omnipotent. I really don’t think that they’re omniscient either, but, not being omniscient myself, that’s just a guess.
ltcmmanderdata
Lieutenant Commander
i say q q can go anywhere or any time and do anything he likes
It's been said that the prophets exist in all time frames simultaneously.
So as far as time, they are time-omniscent, everywhere at once.
That brings the problem of trying to harm these beings, presumably they would see it before hand, and have plenty of opportunity to stop it.
They seem to be unconcerned about their immediate saftey in fact. They did nothing to stop Keiko from trying to destroy them. Evidence of being omniscent (and all knowing as well)?
The Prophets don't come across as omnipotent, because they don't demonstrate any extreme powers like Q. And they seem to have limitations.
But one weird episode seemed to show what they're capable of. In Storyteller, a piece of an orb is used by a Bajoran Village priest to create a creature called the Dal Rok.
Tricorders can't detect it, but it's real, with wind, lightning, the works. The orb piece could actually materialize thoughts and make them real. If a simple piece of an orb can do that, then what could an actual Prophet do?
So as far as time, they are time-omniscent, everywhere at once.
That brings the problem of trying to harm these beings, presumably they would see it before hand, and have plenty of opportunity to stop it.
They seem to be unconcerned about their immediate saftey in fact. They did nothing to stop Keiko from trying to destroy them. Evidence of being omniscent (and all knowing as well)?
The Prophets don't come across as omnipotent, because they don't demonstrate any extreme powers like Q. And they seem to have limitations.
But one weird episode seemed to show what they're capable of. In Storyteller, a piece of an orb is used by a Bajoran Village priest to create a creature called the Dal Rok.
Tricorders can't detect it, but it's real, with wind, lightning, the works. The orb piece could actually materialize thoughts and make them real. If a simple piece of an orb can do that, then what could an actual Prophet do?
I've always thought they probably had other ways to communicate, but they chose to use orbs for the sake of the Bajorans. These orbs have presumably been around since Bajoran pre-history.
If a non-corporeal race took interest and wanted to communicate with a primitive society, orbs seem a logical way to do that. They do not require an understanding of how they work, and they stand the test of time. Even as society develops, they never become obsolete.
Since they exist in all "time", they were aware of a major turning of events after the war with the Cardassians. They also knew an alien named Sisko would happen to be there and would be a willing vessel for their will, so they "prophesied" using him as an emissary.
I think there's just a lot stuff that they just don't care about, including trying to stop somebody from harming them...or in proving how powerful they are. Unlike the Q, who get kind of a kick out of saying "See how special we are?" What we are shown is just...a completely different kind of power. Let's just say that I wouldn't want to bet against either the Prophets or the Q.
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Did they know that there would be a Sisko, because they "saw" the future; or did they know because they took over a human woman and forced her to bear Sisko (Sounds a lot like breeding.) They didn't prevent the closing of the worm hole, but instead left one of their own out of the worm hole so she could reopen it. To me that would seem that they do see all time at once, and set up events to benefit themselves; however that would also seem to mean that they could not stop the event before hand, thus showing a definite limit to their power.
I'm sure if you eradiated Q with chroniton raditation he'd simply raise a bemused eyebrow, yet this is lethal to a wormhole alien. The Prophets managed to destroy a Dominion fleet, granted. But Q casually suggesting Amanda in True Q could accidently annihilate a Galaxy puts things into perspective.
Both are obviously powerful non-corporeal races, but existing at different tiers in the grand scheme. Hell, The Prophets were ignorant of linear time in the pilot!
Both are obviously powerful non-corporeal races, but existing at different tiers in the grand scheme. Hell, The Prophets were ignorant of linear time in the pilot!
That seems to be their single most biggest weakness, chroniton radiation. It's hard to imagine a being as omnipotent when simple Federation technology can harm them.
That seems to bring them down a notch from the Q's level..
So of course, if humans can do this with their technology to the prophets, imagine what a Q can do...
I'm not as well versed in DS9 as I'd like to be, so I'm probably wrong in this assumption, but doesn't the realm of the Prophets only intersect with ours by way of the Bajoran Wormhole? Wasn't that the whole point of the wormhole being the "Celestial Temple"?
If so, how far from Bajor does the reach of the Prophets extend? Could they snap their non-corporeal fingers and affect Earth, for example?
If their range IS limited in our universe, that's a point for the Q, although that may not be advantageous in an actual fight between the two.
If so, how far from Bajor does the reach of the Prophets extend? Could they snap their non-corporeal fingers and affect Earth, for example?
If their range IS limited in our universe, that's a point for the Q, although that may not be advantageous in an actual fight between the two.
The funny thing is, this is making me want to look up episodes with the prophets, just to see what they could do...
In "Storyteller" a simple piece of the orb had the power to turn thoughts into reality. And the Bajorans, who are humanoids, were able to use it to create things, and make them disappear.
And this occured outside the wormhole.
So the thought is- what could an actual Prophet do itself, without an orb?
An orb also transported an entire ship through time. From my understanding, orbs, are just tools the Prophets use to communicate with coporeal beings, the Bajorans.
I just had this thought also; affecting physical objects may have nothing to do with affecting a noncoporeal entity, so making matter disappear may not be an issue in an actual (though very unlikely in my opnion) conflict between the two.
Still that seems to be the thing- inside the wormhole, the Prophets can seem to have no limits, but outside, they seem like...."wormhole aliens".
In "Storyteller" a simple piece of the orb had the power to turn thoughts into reality. And the Bajorans, who are humanoids, were able to use it to create things, and make them disappear.
And this occured outside the wormhole.
So the thought is- what could an actual Prophet do itself, without an orb?
An orb also transported an entire ship through time. From my understanding, orbs, are just tools the Prophets use to communicate with coporeal beings, the Bajorans.
I just had this thought also; affecting physical objects may have nothing to do with affecting a noncoporeal entity, so making matter disappear may not be an issue in an actual (though very unlikely in my opnion) conflict between the two.
Still that seems to be the thing- inside the wormhole, the Prophets can seem to have no limits, but outside, they seem like...."wormhole aliens".
The only problem there is that not caring about somebody harming them does not make evolutionary sense for the Prophets.
I say Q. The prophets don't even seem to have a clear understanding of what is going on in the regular universe.
We see that the prophets are vulnerable to certain things. It seems like they have to seek out humans for help on occasion.
Q on the other hand was never shown to have any weaknesses except in regards to other Q.
We see that the prophets are vulnerable to certain things. It seems like they have to seek out humans for help on occasion.
Q on the other hand was never shown to have any weaknesses except in regards to other Q.
Yep, you're right, the Prophets are held in DS9 to be sort of god-like, but they have too many limitations.
Lack of practical knowledge about the universe -1
Vulnerable to chroniton radiation -3
Requiring help from 'mortals' -2
There is a strange part in "Q Who" where Q meets Guinan, he acts surprised, almost alarmed, and she raises her hands as if to protect herself (as if it could do something). And Guinan was corporeal, mortal.
One thing that seems curious is how, in one episode, a frengi, (The Grand Nagus) goes into the wormhole. The Prophets couldn't understand what he was trying to say to them.
Offended, they then decided to 'study' his culture's past, and then simply changed his personality, completely overriding his free will.
To be able to study the Frengis past from the wormhole (and probably instantaneously), would look like omniscence.
To be able to change a person's personality regardless of their free will shows great power. The Q once did something similar.
But still, here's the question... Affecting physical matter is one thing, but with an entity against entity, manipulating matter and energy may not be enough or have anything to do with it.
Of course the Q can hurl chronitons at the wormhole, simply close it shut, but what would the Prophets do to protect themselves if they could?
What abilities would they use, not just to protect themselves, but to go on the offensive?
I think I have few ideas/theories..
Sometimes the Prophets were portrayed inconsitently.
In the first episode, they were really concerned about their safety, almost getting emotional about the ships going through the wormhole, until Sisko convinced them the ships weren't a threat.
Then in other episodes, where their safety was definetly threatened, they do nothing, appeared unconcerned.
It still looks like the Q can do more things to the Prophets, than the Prophets can do to them.
Hmm, the Organians more evolved than both of them?
Can sense things remotely-
Can appear in multiple places at the same time
Can affect matter
Can take on physical forms and dissoilve them
Can time-travel (possibly)
Ok, based on my viewing some of the episodes they were in, I have observed-
The Prophets:
Can transport objects and people through time-
Can recreate a past in 3D form perfectly -
Can create a "real" fantasy world (ship sensors confirmed it)-
telepathy, remote sensing, mind reading-
Can create real matter in this universe -
can heal and resurrect people
can change a persons personailty
Can suspend time (sacrifice of angels)
Still, like I posted before, being able to physically affect things, and even create "real" fantasy worlds out of nothing, is still a physical thing, affecting another entity may be an entirely different thing.
In the first episode, they were really concerned about their safety, almost getting emotional about the ships going through the wormhole, until Sisko convinced them the ships weren't a threat.
Then in other episodes, where their safety was definetly threatened, they do nothing, appeared unconcerned.
It still looks like the Q can do more things to the Prophets, than the Prophets can do to them.
Hmm, the Organians more evolved than both of them?
Can sense things remotely-
Can appear in multiple places at the same time
Can affect matter
Can take on physical forms and dissoilve them
Can time-travel (possibly)
Ok, based on my viewing some of the episodes they were in, I have observed-
The Prophets:
Can transport objects and people through time-
Can recreate a past in 3D form perfectly -
Can create a "real" fantasy world (ship sensors confirmed it)-
telepathy, remote sensing, mind reading-
Can create real matter in this universe -
can heal and resurrect people
can change a persons personailty
Can suspend time (sacrifice of angels)
Still, like I posted before, being able to physically affect things, and even create "real" fantasy worlds out of nothing, is still a physical thing, affecting another entity may be an entirely different thing.
Do you mean when they bring a person into a poorly lit world and talk to the person using the appearance of someone else? Usually when they do that to Sisko, someone notices that he's not there. It would seem like a second or two has passed, more of a slow time down than actually suspend it.
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