The Problems with Prequels...

[stueyross]

Yes Yes This!!!

This is exactly what this was an opportunity to do. Let's do what THREE of the FOUR post TOS series did. They went forward, they pushed boundaries and they showed us new things whilst still respecting what came before and sticking within the established history. And then came the Fourth show...the one that didn't get 7 seasons. The one that essentially got cancelled.

I feel like we've missed a golden opportunity with this and instead there's been a safe choice.

One of the greatest things about TNG was that it was a dynamic leap FORWARD from what we had seen before. In many, many ways. Part of the enjoyment was in seeing the evolution of everything from the Kirk-era series and films -- how had Starfleet and the Federation changed, what happened to all the Enterprises in between, what had changed with the Klingons, what was the Enterprise's mission now... on top of the fun of seeing new phasers, communicators, tricorders, uniforms, graphics... it build upon and evolved the Trek asthetic at the same time that it created it's own foundation by progressing the Trek universe into the 24th century.

The Trek universe was expanded, not contracted.

A big problem with trapping another series into a previous part of confined Trek history (as others have pointed out) is that at every turn, at least a dozen times an episode, we are going to be taken out of the story they are telling but bumping into pre-established cannon, story points, or visual contradictions ("well, they look like the old phasers, but they seemed re-imagined... but more modern... and powerful... oh wait, is that a Romulan logo... how could then know what a Romulan looked like at this point... weren't the Constitution class ships the only big guns out there at this point...etc, etc").

There will be so much fan-service to the "look and feel" of Pike's era, but it won't really match up in a cohesive way, because the producers will need their creative freedom to do and try anything new -- which they should! So there is always going to a be a push and a pull -- only because the previous incarnations of Trek did such a remarkable job of maintaining a 40 year dramatic continuity. A continuity that should be built upon, not overstuffed.

It was like Phlox on Enterprise... I could never get over "why have we never heard about his species before". It just seemed off-kilter in so many fundamental ways.

This was grand opportunity to do what Trek does best... go forward. Show us something new and let it feel fresh and unknown. And they may still do that in a unique and innovative way, who knows... we'll have to see how it turns out. I just feel in my gut that a post TNG era timeline had the most potential for original, compelling Trek storytelling at this point.

 

[Nyotarules]

A TNG Prequel would be better IMO, 75 years is a wide gap. How did The Federation & the Klingon Empire make peace? How did the Federation make First Contact with Betazed and how did the Trill join the Federation, plus all the other alien species not seen/known in TOS and the movies? Why did the Denobulans disappear, did they leave the Federation?

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

22nd Century:
- Star Trek: Enterprise - Season 01
- Star Trek: Enterprise - Season 02
- Star Trek: Enterprise - Season 03
- Star Trek: Enterprise - Season 04

23rd Century:
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 01
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 02
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 03
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 04
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 05
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 06
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 07
- Star Trek: The Original Series - Season 01
- Star Trek: The Original Series - Season 02
- Star Trek: The Original Series - Season 03
- Star Trek: The Animated Series - Season 01
- Star Trek: The Animated Series - Season 02
- Star Trek: The Motion Picture
- Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
- Star Trek: The Search for Spock
- Star Trek: The Voyage Home
- Star Trek: The Final Frontier
- Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country

24th Century
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 01
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 02
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 03
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 04
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 05
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 06
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 07
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 01
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 02
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 03
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 04
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 05
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 06
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 07
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 01
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 02
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 03
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 04
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 05
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 06
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 07
- Star Trek: Generations
- Star Trek: First Contact
- Star Trek: Insurrection
- Star Trek: Nemesis


Redressing the imbalance

We can do the 25th century later.


23rd Century
- Star Trek: Phase II (the CGI Animated Series, featuring the adventures of Kirk's second five year mission)

24th Century
- Star Trek: Challenger (a tale of Ambassador-class/Constellation-class deep space exploration)
- Star Trek: IKS Roghu'tagh (a post-Gorkon reformation tale of pillage on the high seas of space)
- Star Trek: IRW Valcontrix (putting down sedition and subversive elements, using science, for the Praetor)

25th Century
- Star Trek: The Succeeding Epoch (the adventures of the Enterprise G)
- Star Trek: Pioneer (a stolen Starfleet ship seeks to survive in another galaxy)

30th Century
- Star Trek: Unity (the Federation succumbs to the Temporal Cold War and must be rebuilt, and in doing so, it's original principles rediscovered in a cynical and selfish galaxy)


Too ambitious when we don't even have the first show yet?

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

A TNG Prequel would be better IMO, 75 years is a wide gap. How did The Federation & the Klingon Empire make peace? How did the Federation make First Contact with Betazed and how did the Trill join the Federation, plus all the other alien species not seen/known in TOS and the movies? Why did the Denobulans disappear, did they leave the Federation?

And it may still happen.

 

[uniderth]

22nd Century:
- Star Trek: Enterprise - Season 01
- Star Trek: Enterprise - Season 02
- Star Trek: Enterprise - Season 03
- Star Trek: Enterprise - Season 04

23rd Century:
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 01
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 02
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 03
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 04
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 05
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 06
- Star Trek: Discovery - Season 07
- Star Trek: The Original Series - Season 01
- Star Trek: The Original Series - Season 02
- Star Trek: The Original Series - Season 03
- Star Trek: The Animated Series - Season 01
- Star Trek: The Animated Series - Season 02
- Star Trek: The Motion Picture
- Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
- Star Trek: The Search for Spock
- Star Trek: The Voyage Home
- Star Trek: The Final Frontier
- Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country

24th Century
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 01
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 02
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 03
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 04
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 05
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 06
- Star Trek: The Next Generation - Season 07
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 01
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 02
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 03
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 04
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 05
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 06
- Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Season 07
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 01
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 02
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 03
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 04
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 05
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 06
- Star Trek: Voyager - Season 07
- Star Trek: Generations
- Star Trek: First Contact
- Star Trek: Insurrection
- Star Trek: Nemesis


Redressing the imbalance

We can do the 25th century later.


23rd Century
- Star Trek: Phase II (the CGI Animated Series, featuring the adventures of Kirk's second five year mission)

24th Century
- Star Trek: Challenger (a tale of Ambassador-class/Constellation-class deep space exploration)
- Star Trek: IKS Roghu'tagh (a post-Gorkon reformation tale of pillage on the high seas of space)
- Star Trek: IRW Valcontrix (putting down sedition and subversive elements, using science, for the Praetor)

25th Century
- Star Trek: The Succeeding Epoch (the adventures of the Enterprise G)
- Star Trek: Pioneer (a stolen Starfleet ship seeks to survive in another galaxy)

30th Century
- Star Trek: Unity (the Federation succumbs to the Temporal Cold War and must be rebuilt, and in doing so, it's original principles rediscovered in a cynical and selfish galaxy)


Too ambitious when we don't even have the first show yet?

Doable.

 

[INACTIVEUSS Einstein]

Thats the spirit!

 

[Jax]

If they set the show in the Kelvin timeline then cannon would be a far lesser issue and the fact its set after Kelvin but in the prime does annoy me. I like many aspects of Enterprise but I understand the cannon issues people have and how easy it was for the writers to avoid them but for some reason they bumped their heads that day.

If they wanted to do a pre Kelvin/Prime timeline show then the very early days of the Federation like years after it was created would of interested me more.

 

[CaptainMurdock]

The problem with ENT was Berman and Braga didn't know anything about TOS or gave a damn. Just because it's a prequel doesn't mean it's going to be bad. I for one am excited because we didn't get to explore much of that era like we did with the 24th century Treks which honestly started to out stay it's welcome by Voyager. Wait until the pilot before passing judgement. Paradise protests too much.

 

[uniderth]

Thats the spirit!

Well if I owned Star Trek (which I will). I would redo Enterprise with full seven seasons.

Then I would start a series called Star Trek which would feature five seasons of Captain April aboard the NCC-1701. Then ten seasons of Pike. Then expand the existing three season Star Trek into a five season Kirk era. Then I would do a five season Star Trek II which would take place post TMP. I would use top notch cgi to duplicate the original actors appearance. This way both Kirk and Pike era seasons would match seamlessly with existing episodes.

 

[Koo]

So then (SPOILERS!)


News today that the new series will be set Ten years before James T Kirk and the crew boldy went where no man had gone before.....

I'm dreading another prequel. Partly because the years of non-canon whining we're all going to have to put up with will dredge up all the old Enterprise days. Borg. Ferengi. Romulans etc. We can't see any of those now because they were NOT seen Pre-TOS. We're going to get years of whining about 60s art styles not being adhered to. (sigh)

My biggest issue with setting this pre-TOS is that it removes a large part of suspense from the show. One of the things that worried us all when the Jem-Hadar attacked in Deep Space 9 was whether the federation would survive this or not. When Huge Godlike Aliens™ threaten the universe, we know they won't win because hey Jimmy Kirk and the guys are only ten years down the line and the Universe was just fiiiiiine then.

If the TOS era floats your boat then ok, kick them into another alternate universe. If its not just the TOS fixation then set it after VOY and the TNG movies.

Between the Fugly ship and this....I'm not looking forward to it so much.

I've started a petition to cancel this new series and start work on a new series set after the events of DS9, Voyager, Nemesis.
https://www.change.org/p/cbs-cancel-star-trek-discovery-and-greenlight-a-post-nemesis-series

 

[jamestyler]

I've started a petition to cancel this new series and start work on a new series set after the events of DS9, Voyager, Nemesis.
https://www.change.org/p/cbs-cancel-star-trek-discovery-and-greenlight-a-post-nemesis-series

Yeah cause that's not gonna get laughed off the forum.

 

[Mudd]

Let's do what THREE of the FOUR post TOS series did. They went forward, they pushed boundaries and they showed us new things...

They did exactly the same thing, over and over, with better visual design every time out.

 

[Tim Walker]

The different novels indicate that the late 24th century would work well for a soft reboot. The Borg incursions/Dominion War period of crisis has shook up the political situation.

 

[Kelthaz]

I can honestly understand this viewpoint given that you don't care about the larger perspective. And, making people care about the characters will always improve a work of fiction. But, some of us do care about the larger perspective, and a prequel limits what can be done with that larger perspective.

Exactly. It's not just worrying about the survival of the Federation (which we all know will survive), but the introduction of new elements into the Star Trek universe.

New major races, radical changes to the status quo (the Cardassians joining the Dominion, the introduction of the Borg, the destruction of Romulus or Vulcan), new technologies. All of this is lost in a prequel. No major twists can happen without us knowing the results. Something like The Red Wedding or epic moments like Daenerys finally sailing to Westeros will never be able to happen.

I get that some people are just interested in the mostly episodic adventures of a starship exploring the unknown and I enjoy that too, but it's the political intrigue and world building of shows like Deep Space Nine, Game of Thrones, and Babylon 5 that I truly love.

 

[Ovation]

I've started a petition to cancel this new series and start work on a new series set after the events of DS9, Voyager, Nemesis.
https://www.change.org/p/cbs-cancel-star-trek-discovery-and-greenlight-a-post-nemesis-series

It's as ridiculous an idea here as it was in the original thread you started on the same subject. If I were you, I'd just quit now and chalk it up to temporary heat stroke or some such thing.

 

[LtChange]

Something epic could happen. We know little about the era selected. If we see the Enterprise with Pike we will know it won't be destroyed. But anything else could happen. If we get a series after Nemesis and the Federation will be in great danger we will know there too that the Federation will not get destroyed. That is a constant. So we know that the Enterprise will not get Destroyed or that the Federation will not get destroyed. I can imagine 10 kind of epic moments without knowing the series that could happen and could be meaningful and shocking ...

 

[NOVE9]

I've started a petition to cancel this new series and start work on a new series set after the events of DS9, Voyager, Nemesis.
https://www.change.org/p/cbs-cancel-star-trek-discovery-and-greenlight-a-post-nemesis-series

Trying to sense a hint of sarcasm.......................nope sensors come up with nothing.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

The idea that it focuses on Anaxar would mesh with Paramount/CBS killing Prelude.

 

[cultcross]

So the prequels should have followed Obi Wan's narrative in order to maintain the surprise reveal. It should have shown Anakin's transformation into Darth Vader in a way that makes you think they are two different people, but they're never seen together.

Or take the Skywalker twins for example. We don't learn until Episode 6 that Luke and Leia are twins. So any prequel depiction of the birth of the Skywalker twins should be done ambiguously enough so that on an initial viewing we would assume there was only one child.

You're aware that the prequels came later, right, when the whole world knew Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader were one and the same? In fact, that story was the whole selling point of the prequels. What would be gained from pretending the audience didn't know?

There problem with prequels is, as others have said, the world building aspect. Politics, intrigue, large scale events, the open ended possibilities of a fantasy world. Unconstrained by reality or the true events of history, fantasy has an open playing field with essentially infinite paths to take its world. Fantasy prequels don't, though, because they are funneled into limited paths by what has been done before. It's like reading the last page of the book first. In fact, your point about Darth Vader is a good illustration - there's no other way for those movies to end. From day one we know what will happen to the characters and all the time we're watching them fart about with pod racers we're just waiting for the precocious little brat to become an evil warlord.

That's what I meant in the other thread by saying that Discovery needs, imho, to be a show set in the past, rather than a direct prequel to anything that comes later. Do it's own thing without trying to bring in "young Kirk" or "how phaser banks ended up in pairs" or any of that other fanwanky prequel stuff. Just be a story set in the fictional timeline's past. Then, you've got a chance of making a 'prequel' work.

 

[Tenacity]

radical changes to the status quo

Since we have little to no idea what the "status quo" is a decade prior to TOS, there could be radical changes to the the galaxy as established in the first episode.

we will know there too that the Federation will not get destroyed

But it could be heavily damaged, massively altered, forcibly reorganized, entire planets gone.

On any given mission, we don't know how it's going to turn out. Really, how is this different than a series place in the 25th century?