The Problems with Prequels...

[milo bloom]

Two decades later, not that many people are that invested in the modern Trek tv shows - TNG is the only one, after all, that's generated enough interest lately to justify the expense of a "remastered" Blue-ray release.

This can't be ignored - we love DS9 and VOY has a pretty strong fanbase, but when you say Star Trek, most people think of Kirk, then they think of Picard. If you remind them about "the black captain" or "the woman captain" they might go "oh yeah, those were okay".

The point is, the iconography of TOS is what people associate with Trek. Think about it, people still joke about "redshirts" being the disposable security guards of TOS, despite the three modern series switching red over to Command staff. Using the TOS look will go a long way towards getting a broader base of viewers to watch.

The problem with ENT was Berman and Braga didn't know anything about TOS or gave a damn. Just because it's a prequel doesn't mean it's going to be bad. I for one am excited because we didn't get to explore much of that era like we did with the 24th century Treks which honestly started to out stay it's welcome by Voyager. Wait until the pilot before passing judgement. Paradise protests too much.

Thank you. We actually have somebody running this show that cares, I'm a lot more hopeful that Fuller will be able to step around canon issues far more gracefully than B&B ever did.

And for those talking about how DSC won't be able to have storylines with universe-shattering consequences because we know the universe survives: good.
Instead of using cheap dramatic tricks, the writers will have to focus on the people. We know the Federation survives; how will these people deal with what happens?
I'm ready to have a Trek where the characters aren't cardboard props that never change over 7 seasons.

 

[OpenMaw]

Not to mention... Federation ain't going to get destroyed. Ever. So, with all due respect, it's a silly argument. It's like saying, if they made Wrath of Khan first, and then years later they made the prequel about V'ger... Oh well the drama's all gone because we know they make it through and the Earth isn't destroyed... That's not how this works!

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

I've started a petition to cancel this new series and start work on a new series set after the events of DS9, Voyager, Nemesis.
https://www.change.org/p/cbs-cancel-star-trek-discovery-and-greenlight-a-post-nemesis-series

 

[cultcross]

Why is "The federation is destroyed" the only large scale event we can come up with that wouldn't contradict the later shows? Strikes me as reducing the argument to the extreme. In general, we know the political sequence of events up until Nemesis. Hundreds of hours of Trek (all of it except Enterprise actually) postdate Discovery and set up the world that must follow on from the show's conclusion. That's what is meant by limited ability to world build. Now in not saying anything about the quality of the show as we haven't seen it yet, it could be a brilliant character drama that ends up my favourite Trek show. But it will be limited in its ability to Game if Thrones it up with its world building, politics, etc. if it wants to be consistent with what comes after.

 

[OpenMaw]

There is a whole galaxy out there is ultimately the point, I think. Hundreds of millions of stars, and we've only ever seen a fraction of them, even in the alpha and beta quadrant aren't all that well explored, especially during this era. The frontier is huuuuge. There is so much that can be explored without ever even touching on anything that happened in those TNG era series.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

If they set the show in the Kelvin timeline then cannon would be a far lesser issue and the fact its set after Kelvin but in the prime does annoy me. I like many aspects of Enterprise but I understand the cannon issues people have and how easy it was for the writers to avoid them but for some reason they bumped their heads that day.

Please don't use the phrases "Kelvin Timeline" and "canon" in the same sentences because it makes my head hurt. Not after Star-Trek-Let's-Destroy-Vulcan-2009 and after Star-Trek-The-Wrath-of-Sherlock-Khan-Into-Darkness. There never was a biggest violation of Trek canon than those movies.

 

[Ovation]

Please don't use the phrases "Kelvin Timeline" and "canon" in the same sentences because it makes my head hurt. Not after Star-Trek-Let's-Destroy-Vulcan-2009 and after Star-Trek-The-Wrath-of-Sherlock-Khan-Into-Darkness. There never was a biggest violation of Trek canon than those movies.

Kelvin timeline IS canon. It's on screen so time to suck it up.

 

[Kelthaz]

Since we have little to no idea what the "status quo" is a decade prior to TOS, there could be radical changes to the the galaxy as established in the first episode.

How do you figure that? Discovery is a prequel to the other shows in the Prime universe. Everything that happens (excluding some minor retcons of course) will have to fit in with the other shows.

 

[Overgeeked]

So then (SPOILERS!)


News today that the new series will be set Ten years before James T Kirk and the crew boldy went where no man had gone before.....

I'm dreading another prequel. Partly because the years of non-canon whining we're all going to have to put up with will dredge up all the old Enterprise days. Borg. Ferengi. Romulans etc. We can't see any of those now because they were NOT seen Pre-TOS. We're going to get years of whining about 60s art styles not being adhered to. (sigh)

My biggest issue with setting this pre-TOS is that it removes a large part of suspense from the show. One of the things that worried us all when the Jem-Hadar attacked in Deep Space 9 was whether the federation would survive this or not. When Huge Godlike Aliens™ threaten the universe, we know they won't win because hey Jimmy Kirk and the guys are only ten years down the line and the Universe was just fiiiiiine then.

If the TOS era floats your boat then ok, kick them into another alternate universe. If its not just the TOS fixation then set it after VOY and the TNG movies.

Between the Fugly ship and this....I'm not looking forward to it so much.

Well, bluntly, you're wrong. On many levels. Having a prequel does not prevent tension. We know the Federation won't dissolve, but we knew that for every other series too, except perhaps a few minutes of DS9. They're the good guys. This is a pulp franchise. We know the good guys will win. What we don't know if what it will cost the characters for them to win. We know nothing of this ship or her crew. Nothing of the struggles they will face nor the stories they will tell.

Your main thrust seems to be that fans will endlessly bitch. As long as the irony of the situation isn't lost on you, we can move ahead.

Well, you're not wrong. But methinks they would anyway. We all know a similar thread would take this one's place if the show were announced to be post-Nemesis. Some vocal fan would complain about a pet favorite unexplored era or gap or event that deserves more screen time.

 

[Spider]

As has been stated many times by many people in these forums, it's going to boil down to the writing staff. A good writing staff can make anything interesting and fun.

 

[Kor]

Enough nay-saying.

I have been passionately yearning and aching for more Trek from the "Cage" era my whole life.

Why can't we just wait and find out what it's like, instead of judging something that we haven't experienced yet and don't fully understand? We're all going to catch STD in January, and the anticipation will be over. I think it's going to be totally worth it.

Kor

 

[Degra1]

Not crazy about yet another prequel. I'd much rather move forward to the 25th century which wouldn't limit anything. You could have all the TNG era aliens and also have the ability to introduce new ones without jeopardizing continuity or canon

Hollywood has gotten so lazy choosing to fall back on prequels, reboots of earlier films or tv series

I'm also not feeling Fuller as the person behind the new series. He's overrated and I've never cared for his style to storytelling also he wrote some of the weakest episodes as a staff writer for Trek-Fury, Spirit Folk, Juggernaut, Gravity, Mortal Coil, Empok Nor to name a few

Also the idea of letting fanboys helm nostalgic properties is all around just a bad idea. They come in more interested in getting to play with a property they enjoyed in their youth. Focusing on getting to recreate the costumes, recreate the sets, name drop and insert Easter eggs and essentially retelling beat for beat the earlier material rather than coming into it somewhat detached with the priority on good writing

Even Gene Roddenberry realized that when he did TNG by moving forward and not wanting staffers all that familiar with Trek. He also didn't want to fall back on TOS aliens.

Instead fan boy writers like Abrams, Orci, Kurtzman, Fuller, Johns, Alexander Kreisberg, Greg Berlanti end up giving us weakly written incoherent recycled stories hoping the "oooohhh" factor of seeing onscreen Reverse Flash, Kid Flash, Red Tornado, Hans Solo or TOS sets, beehives and uniforms will compensate. That's why for me pop culture long ago jumped the shark. There's no innovation just regurgitation

 

[Degra1]

Even worse Trek already attempted a prequel and it was called Enterprise

 

[OpenMaw]

Even worse Trek already attempted a prequel and it was called Enterprise

Indeed it was.

That was a different time in TV, with a different writing staff, different producers, and a different approach.

 

[BillJ]

I honestly wanted a Kirk, Spock on the Enterprise reboot. But I'm fairly happy with how Discovery is shaking out so far. I know that young Kirk and Spock are puttering around the neighborhood and could always pop-in.

 

[Degra1]

Indeed it was.

That was a different time in TV, with a different writing staff, different producers, and a different approach.

I disagree. Pretty much little has changed in the last 15 years with the way tv is approached.

I'd also point out its best seasin revolved around new alien threat with the xindi not TOS aliens

 

[OpenMaw]

I disagree. Pretty much little has changed in the last 15 years with the way tv is approached.

Then, respectfully, you have had your head in the sand for the last 15 years. Enterprise started with hardly any attempt to do anything but meander from episode to episode. There was virtually no attempt at inter-series continuity until halfway into the first season, and even then done so haphazardly that events don't gel nearly as well as they should have. Enterprise continued the creative philosphies that started with TNG. That included pulling things out of their behind at the last minute because they had to fill in 20+ episodes. Enterprise was one of the last shows of it's era. Far more progressive and revolutionary types of shows were coming out, which made it look even more dated. It wasn't doing anything new, but TV around it certainly was. TV was taking risks, being experimental.

I'd also point out its best seasin revolved around new alien threat with the xindi not TOS aliens

I'd also point out that it is debatable that Season 4 is the best season of Enterprise among other circles of fans, and is the one that I hear most widely praised, and it is almost wall-to-wall TOS aliens and TOS fan service.

 

[Kor]

IMO, for good television these days, you have to look toward cable instead of the broadcast networks.

Kor

 

[Degra1]

Then, respectfully, you have had your head in the sand for the last 15 years. Enterprise started with hardly any attempt to do anything but meander from episode to episode. There was virtually no attempt at inter-series continuity until halfway into the first season, and even then done so haphazardly that events don't gel nearly as well as they should have. Enterprise continued the creative philosphies that started with TNG. That included pulling things out of their behind at the last minute because they had to fill in 20+ episodes. Enterprise was one of the last shows of it's era. Far more progressive and revolutionary types of shows were coming out, which made it look even more dated. It wasn't doing anything new, but TV around it certainly was. TV was taking risks, being experimental.
.

Oh I'm up to date on contemporary television both broadcast and cable with it be willing to do more serialized storylines, killing off characters for shock factor, the excessive storytelling with unwieldy large casts, over the top pacing, time jumps, flashback, expansive storytelling, convoluted mythologies, romantic angst None of which is all that impressive

Enterprise was kinda out front with a lot of that honestly. Enterprise toyed with the idea of a franchise spanning arc involving time travel and incorporated it as the driving force for the xindi arc long before shows like Lost, Twelve Monkeys or season 1 of Heroes the xindi arc employed multi perspective storytelling before Lost for example. The xindi arc did the while seasin long puzzle piece mystery format before Lost, Heroes Quantico Blindspot what have you

It used subtitles before it became hip with Lost. The xindi arc also had expansive storytelling with lots of different sets, different players with different agendas, covering not only different locations but different realms and time periods. It also had its Archer, Tpol trip angst long before jack Kate Sawyer, boomer lee Starbuck Anders love rectangle. It killed off characters for shock

 

[Trekkin]

Your main thrust seems to be that fans will endlessly bitch. As long as the irony of the situation isn't lost on you, we can move ahead.

Well, you're not wrong. But methinks they would anyway. We all know a similar thread would take this one's place if the show were announced to be post-Nemesis. Some vocal fan would complain about a pet favorite unexplored era or gap or event that deserves more screen time.

If Trekkies aren't bitching about da Canonz, then it's not True Star Trek.