The Problem of Edith Keeler

[section9]

Okay Chilluns, new timeline, which means that McCoy, Kirk, and Spock didn't go back to 1930. That means that Edith Keeler, below, did not die in that untimely collision with that ice cream truck.

Now, I don't know about you, but I happen to believe that City on the Edge of Forever is probably the most decisive single episode in the entire Star Trek timeline. If this dame lives, the Federation does not exist and, eventually, the Borg or the Dominion overrun the entire Alpha Quadrant.

Naturally, you-know-who must die. Unfortunately, Bob Orci and Co. have screwed with the timeline, so now someone has to write a check to Harlan Ellison to write up a treatment to solve this problem.

I don't see a way out of this box, imho. A "new timeline" doesn't get around the Edith Keeler Lives=Hitler Gets Bomb=No More Downfall Parody Videos kind of universe. Someone tell me I'm wrong here.

Edith Keeler must die.

 

[Brent]

If Starfleet exists in this movie then it must mean they did travel back at some point in the future.

 

[vice1986]

I thought she originally DID die, and it was McCoy who screwed things over by going back and then kirk/spock had to fix it by making sure she was killed?

 

[section9]

If Starfleet exists in this movie then it must mean they did travel back at some point in the future.

NuKirk and NuSpock and NuMcCoy don't necessarily do the NuThings they Need to do in order to kill Edith Keeler or Make her have her untimely meeting with the Good Humor Man in the 1930's? See? This is why you kill the Writers for screwing with Continuity.

UNLESSSSS!!!! Spock leaves his Katra behind with NuSpock, who will then know that he has to pay Harlan Ellison a million dollars to arrange to send him, McCoy, and Kirk back through the Guardian of Forever AGAIN to push poor Edith under the bus.

You could make a Downfall Parody Video out of this....

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

NuKirk and NuSpock and NuMcCoy don't necessarily do the NuThings they Need to do in order to kill Edith Keeler or Make her have her untimely meeting with the Good Humor Man in the 1930's?

They don't necessarily not do those things, either.

And as has already been pointed out, if McCoy never goes back in time at all, Keeler dies. So no problem. I can't even see where your reasoning starts from.

 

[indranee]

for a social worker, she had some nice threads (for her time).

 

[section9]

Exactly. We have to make sure that she's dead dead dead. Gotta hit that Ice Cream Truck. Otherwise, she lives and Hitler gets the Bomb.

 

[Captain Gandalf]

I thought she originally DID die, and it was McCoy who screwed things over by going back and then kirk/spock had to fix it by making sure she was killed?

Very true. McCoy saved her life and Kirk had to prevent that to save the timeline.

 

[indranee]

maybe she becomes Eva Braun #2. who's to say she doesn't die anyway before Adolph can get up to more mischief?

 

[Gepard]

And as has already been pointed out, if McCoy never goes back in time at all, Keeler dies. So no problem. I can't even see where your reasoning starts from.

Keeler made it all the way across the street before McCoy and Kirk fighting caused her to turn around, run back into the the street and get hit by a truck. The presence of both McCoy and Kirk (and Kirk's belief that it was McCoy's presence that saved Keeler) was neccesarry to get her killed.

Of course, since she spent a lot of time interacting with both Kirk and McCoy for a day or two beforehand, she might have been in a different location entirely at that time if they were never there. So who knows?

 

[datas_cat_spot]

This thread can be renamed: "The complete non-issue with Edith Keeler"

 

[section9]

This thread can be renamed: "The complete non-issue with Edith Keeler"

Au contraire, mon ami, this thread can be renamed, "how to pay Harlan Ellison several hundred thousand dollars and dog around for a script for a sequel!"

Can't blame me for trying can you?

Besides, it's my 50th birthday today and those graverobbers from the AARP sent me a card in the mail. Perhaps I should forward it to Hitler?

 

[shapeshifter]

"new timeline" equates to different time-line.

The events of CotEoF happened in the original time-line and nothing can change that. That is what the producers mean when they tell us our DVDs will still exist. It's a metaphor meaning those stories aren't going anywhere, there is no over-writing of the original time-line going on here.

The question is, will those events happen in this time-line? My response: who cares? I don't. I saw those adventures already so have no desire to see them again except in the orignal time-line from off my DVD collections. I want this time-line to take me places I haven't gone before.

 

[section9]

"new timeline" equates to different time-line.

The events of CotEoF happened in the original time-line and nothing can change that. That is what the producers mean when they tell us our DVDs will still exist. It's a metaphor meaning those stories aren't going anywhere, there is no over-writing of the original time-line going on here.

The question is, will those events happen in this time-line? My response: who cares? I don't. I saw those adventures already so have no desire to see them again except in the orignal time-line from off my DVD collections. I want this time-line to take me places I haven't gone before.

I get your point, which leaves me a little squirrely at the prospect of Vulcan being wiped out. The whole Spock as Kal-El thing leaves me a little cold.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

I thought she originally DID die, and it was McCoy who screwed things over by going back and then kirk/spock had to fix it by making sure she was killed?

Very true. McCoy saved her life and Kirk had to prevent that to save the timeline.

I'll second (or third or fourth) that.

It was McCoy's tampering in the first place that caused Edith to "not die". If the Enterprise never goes to the Guardian planet, then Edith dies.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Edith Keeler's survival leads to the Nazis winning WWII which leads to the Mirror Universe. The new timeline is the MU timeline! Which is wonderful because who doesn't want to see Zachary Quinto rockin' a goatee?

 

[Takeru]

Au contraire, mon ami, this thread can be renamed, "how to pay Harlan Ellison several hundred thousand dollars and dog around for a script for a sequel!"

Even if they wanted to fix this "problem", why would anyone pay Harlan Ellison anything? It's not like a sequel or a new version of the story couldn't be written by someone who's cheaper.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I don't believe there is a "new" or "alternate" timelime, but a slightly altered timeline. Yes i'm aware of what Orci/Kurtzman have said and Michael Bay said that there's no Megatron in TF:ROTF. I think in interviews people say a lot of things that are either blatently not true or deceptive. He did say that everything before the Kelvin is destroyed is the normal timeline then after that things are changed slightly(ie. Kirk living with his Uncle, Enterprise looking different) I think what'll happen in the movie and possible sequel is the only thing truly changed and since Kirk becomes Captian after all, then everything will happen as it did in TOS and beyond. "Old Spock" will sacrifice himself once agian,but it won't matter because there is another Spock who goes on to live and be Old in the TNG era.What i'm saying is it's the same universe , but if it isn't who's to say things won't play out ecxactly as it did before except this time Romulus dosen't explode and Nero is stopped.

 

[Cheebo]

And as has already been pointed out, if McCoy never goes back in time at all, Keeler dies. So no problem. I can't even see where your reasoning starts from.

Keeler made it all the way across the street before McCoy and Kirk fighting caused her to turn around, run back into the the street and get hit by a truck. The presence of both McCoy and Kirk (and Kirk's belief that it was McCoy's presence that saved Keeler) was neccesarry to get her killed.

Of course, since she spent a lot of time interacting with both Kirk and McCoy for a day or two beforehand, she might have been in a different location entirely at that time if they were never there. So who knows?

Er.... both McCoy and Kirk were not needed. She got killed before McCoy or Kirk ever tampered with the past. She got hit by that truck in the un-alterted timeline before kirk/spock/mccoy went back to the 30's.

 

[CaptainHawk1]

I thought she originally DID die, and it was McCoy who screwed things over by going back and then kirk/spock had to fix it by making sure she was killed?

Very true. McCoy saved her life and Kirk had to prevent that to save the timeline.

Seriously...

Section9, you have actually seen CotEoF, right?