The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discussion

[Aragorn]

A man known as Six (Jim Caviezel) finds himself trapped in a bizarre place called the "The Village" led by a man known as Two (Ian McKellen) with no memory of how he arrived. As he explores his environment, he discovers that his fellow inhabitants are identified by number instead of name, have no memory of any prior existence, and are under constant surveillance. Not knowing whom to trust, Six is driven by the need to discover the truth behind The Village, the reason for his being there, and most importantly -- how he can escape.

 

[Cicero]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Who is pictured here with Caviezel?

 

[23skidoo]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Who is pictured here with Caviezel?

313 (Ruth Wilson). She's been a major part of the show since part 1. (Though unless they're doing a flashback this image is actually from last night's episode).

Alex

 

[Aragorn]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

^ I just grabbed a random picture to use with the thread.

 

[23skidoo]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Wow.

Of course people will hate it and I'm probably going to be in the minority, but i thought the conclusion worked really well. The ending was not what I'd expected, but I think it was a worthy successor to Fall Out.

Was the AMC Prisoner a better series than McGoohan's? Not by a long shot. But I think they did justice to the original and stayed true to it by creating a baffling series that pisses off as many people as it pleases. That, in my opinion, makes it a rousing success.

But was it just me, or was the image of 6 sitting in the desert with him comatose girlfriend really disturbing?

Alex

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Well, that was...something. Yeah.

Did you ever have one of those days where everything seemed to work? Like you're driving your car and every light is green?

And how about the part where 6 lost his sunglasses and went everywhere looking for them, like the first time he fell in love.

I have to say I didn't like it all that much, but didn't hate it.

Never saw the original.

 

[Anachronus]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

The last two episodes were very weak compared to the first four. I really enjoyed the second night, but to me this evening was a letdown.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

I gave up on this show after the first two hours but was curious how it was all explained. Care to share?

 

[Janus VI]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

um yeah I could barely wait until it was over. I felt like they went out of their way in order to explain the reason behind The Village and why its residents came to be there and in doing so came across a little flat.


"Darling" was the strongest episode of the bunch for me though overall the series left mostly a longing to rewatch the original.

Anyone holding out hope for a more faithful adaption?

 

[Harvey]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

A more faithful adaptation? I have the original television series on Blu-Ray and can enjoy it whenever I want. It's not as if Patrick McGoohan and George Markstein based the series on a book or other source material.

That said, I look forward to the final installment, just fifteen minutes away now...

 

[Klaus]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

But was it just me, or was the image of 6 sitting in the desert with him comatose girlfriend really disturbing?
Alex

No, it wasn't just you... chilling is the word I'd use.

 

[Soar_Dude]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

A more faithful adaptation?

Not even close to the orginal series.

Now I sit here typing on the computer wondering what the hell just happened. I am trying figure out how summakor fits into the village I am really confused now was the village some sort of simulation overseen by summakor or is it inside M2 or 313's mind and how is Micheal able to look inside the village?

 

[Agent Richard07]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

I thought that the first two episodes were the strongest with the second two being the weakest and the last two somewhere in the middle. Overall, it was a bizarre little series. I will undoubtedly have to watch it again at some point since there's a lot I didn't get the first time around. I'll also have to watch the original.

I have other questions too and a few really vague ideas about what's going on, but I'm going to hold off on commenting.

Here's what I was thinking... I didn't know how or why, but I did suspect that there were two worlds existing simultaneously. I also thought that the holes were literal holes in the "village world" and that if someone were to jump in, they'd be out, which an instinctual fear of death prevented.

I didn't buy the "Who is Number 1" answer for a moment. And anyone who did is buying into the mainstream conception of how television tells a story.

That's why I said I'm glad they asked the question. I'm holding out for the possibility that we'll get another answer.

Yep. More clever twists and stuff to mull over there. Let's see...

- There was two of everyone, hence the head of the village being Number Two.

- As I suspected, Number Two's comatose wife was "Number One" in that she started this thing.

- The goal was to make people "whole", or "one" through village therapy.

- Once you're "one", you're no longer of two minds, or confused and therefore understand the illusion of the village. Kind of Matrix-like. Of course, Number Six never escapes the illusion. Instead, he stays and becomes Number Two because he's still attached to his own humanity.

The towers are an obvious parallel to the World Trade Center as well (since Six is from New York City), although I wonder why they picked that, given that there hasn't BEEN a WTC since 9/11...

Why they picked the towers is an interesting question. Maybe anything else as a signpost representing New York, like the Statue of Liberty for example, would have been too obvious. Two non-descript crystal towers are both clear enough (no pun intended) to be a clue and vague enough to not give anything away.

By the way... I wonder if the people who made this series saw Otherworld. The towers kind of reminded me of Ymar, a place that also represented a way home for its characters and had towers of some sort, if I remember correctly. It's been 24 years since I saw it.

Now I'm left with one significant question about The Prisoner... Why was Michael Number Six? Why such a high number?

 

[Harvey]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

I admit, there was something perversely satisfying about Michael becoming the new number two because the temptation of creating a new, better village was too great for him to refuse.

That said, the original series had much more clarity than the remake, and I say that with full knowledge of the ape mask and insane musical number that capped "Fall Out." The final montage of Michael/Six should have cemented all the pieces into a cohesive whole, but it did not. It was just as nebulous and inconclusive as the rest of the miniseries. The ending was about the only thing that made any sense. And that's too bad--I wanted to like this miniseries. It had a decent cast and an impressive visual style, but in the end, it just didn't come together. Too bad. At least I won't have to waste any money on the DVDs...

 

[Aragorn]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Well that was sort of like going on an acid trip with David Lynch. The severe disconnect between episodes was rather jarring (your "brother" dies in one episode and you become an "undercover" in the next?).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

- Once you're "one", you're no longer of two minds, or confused and therefore understand the illusion of the village. Kind of Matrix-like. Of course, Number Six never escapes the illusion. Instead, he stays and becomes Number Two becuase he's still attached to his own humanity.

So, what, does Six become able to switch back and forth between the real world (NYC) and the Village at will?

 

[23skidoo]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

But was it just me, or was the image of 6 sitting in the desert with him comatose girlfriend really disturbing?
Alex

No, it wasn't just you... chilling is the word I'd use.

Also very disturbing. And in a good way. I wouldn't go so far as to call it an "iconic" image, but it's pretty close.

I'm glad they didn't do a straight remake of the original, though. That allows both stories to stand on their own.

I am disappointed that they didn't include a dedication to McGoohan, though. If Doctor Who could include dedications to Verity Lambert and Barry Letts, they could have tossed on a card for McGoohan. Maybe ITV will when they show it.

Alex

 

[C.E. Evans]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

Just like the original series, I wound up getting mind in the final episode. While I suspected that the Village was not a real place, Six's decision to willingly stay and run the joint actually made me think of McGoohan's Number Six and how differently he might have played it.

I still like the original way better, but this remake ain't half bad, IMO.

Of course, it's ironic when I realize who actually did escape the Village in the end...

 

[Christopher]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

I only caught the last hour of this, and fragments of "Schizoid"; I didn't care for the first two hours enough to bother taping the rest when I had other things to watch. Still...

What the hell??

Okay... the Village is some sort of dream-time version of the Matrix... some kind of psychic virtual reality, dreamed by Number Two's wife, where damaged people are brought to be healed? Umm, is this supposed to be evil or something? Or is Six really the bad guy? Or what? It seems like he was a Summakor employee who didn't like what he was finding out and chose to resign, and they stuck him in the Village rather than let him leave. But why, if their motives were so altruistic? And what's the point of even calling it The Prisoner if the Village is more of a therapeutic resort than a prison? And why use the dehumanizing trappings of reducing everyone to numbers and keeping them in ignorance if the goal is to heal and save them?

Or were they going for some kind of "I need my pain" message about how trying to "fix" people with therapy or drugs and get them to conform to social norms is itself dehumanizing, that it takes away our individuality and freedom? If so, they didn't get that point across well at all, since the people in need of "fixing" seemed to be seriously disturbed and ill rather than just eccentric.

And unlike the original, all the questions are answered. We know Number Six's real name. (They've given you a name / And they took away your number.) We know exactly why he resigned. We know the nature and purpose of the Village. It's just that none of the answers we're given are very coherent or clear. It's not an enigma, just an unfocused muddle.

 

[Agent Richard07]

Re: The Prisoner: "Schizoid" & "Checkmate" 11/17/09 - Grading & Discus

- Once you're "one", you're no longer of two minds, or confused and therefore understand the illusion of the village. Kind of Matrix-like. Of course, Number Six never escapes the illusion. Instead, he stays and becomes Number Two becuase he's still attached to his own humanity.

So, what, does Six become able to switch back and forth between the real world (NYC) and the Village at will?

No, it looks like both parts of him woke up enough to be aware of what the village is, but the counterpart in the village is just as much a prisoner as everyone else is. His newfound dedication to the place and wanting to make it better keeps him in the illusion. He may be in charge, but he's not out. In order for him to get out, his counterpart, which has a mind of its own either has to die or become totally aware that the village isn't real, which will result in him losing his attachment to the place. Only then will he be free to move in and out at will, or simply stay out like Mr. Curtis did.

What the hell??

Yeah.

And what's the point of even calling it The Prisoner if the Village is more of a therapeutic resort than a prison? And why use the dehumanizing trappings of reducing everyone to numbers and keeping them in ignorance if the goal is to heal and save them?

What I got is that they're prisoners of their own minds and attachments. That's what keeps them imprisoned. And yes, the village is supposed to be a theraputic place, but Mr. Curtis took it upon himself to put people in because he felt they needed it. He didn't care if they wanted to be there or not.