The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoilers)

[Satyrquaze]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

Really? If a loved one of yours died peacefully because a friend/competitor/whatever gave her an OD, you would not hold that person accountable? You wouldn't be furious? You'd be in a blood rage! That your loved one died peacefully was a small comfort offered by Cain, not a dismissal of responsibility and guilt.

Angiers was in a rage at Bordon for killing his wife, not HOW he killed his wife. But, as irony and writers have it, in order to offer Angiers the smallest comfort, that she did not suffer, he told Angiers that drowing was peaceful, like "going home". I'm sure it's no accident, and in fact the reason Angiers chose to drown his copy, because it was supposed to be peaceful and he wouldn't suffer. And, if improbably small chance the trick failed, he wouldn't suffer.

Then, at the end, he learns the truth. His wife sufferred horribly. Each of his copies suffered horribly. How do you not internalize and personalize that n "yous" suffered horrible deaths. Had he not died shortly thereafter, he certainly would have lost his mind. Too bad they didn't have time, as that trip to insanity (short as it probably would nave been) could have been interesting to watch.

A blood rage is great as an alibi if you commit a crime in a moment of passion, but the movie takes place over the course of years.

Its a given that Angiers is quite insane. Which is all I was saying, otherwise we're just arguing semantics over where the emphasis is in Angiers rationalization of his crazy-pantness.

 

[TeknoNurd]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

Then, at the end, he learns the truth. His wife sufferred horribly. Each of his copies suffered horribly.

Am I the only one who finds this plot point totally absurd? Sailors, and thus drowning, were a lot more common back then, and therefore only a world-class moron could think that drowning was anything other than sheer, absolute-worst horror. It'd be like telling a reasonably smart person today that Alzheimer's isn't a big emotional deal for families, because it's actually kind of adorable, in a childlike way, when parents no longer recognize their own kids. Uh, what?
<Snip unrelated stuff>

Not to argue, as you make a fine point. Not only that, he SAW his wife drown... did it look "peaceful"?

But, at times such as the death of a loved one, people will grab on to the stupidest (from the outside) things to find comfort. Angier's was told by his mentor that what he saw wasn't what he saw, and by believing the obvious lie, believing she died at peace, he could carry on the good fight. Who could have guessed some years down the road, he'd need a "peaceful" way to kill himself night after night. So, when the need arose, he used the comforting lie, that he 'needed' to believe, and drowned himself night after night.

Oh, and Angiers was crazy.

Between the time Angiers embraced the lie, to when he died, how many opportunities would he have had to have people disabuse him of the crazy idea that drowning was peaceful? He was a rich snob, it didn't hang out where sailors hung out. On the odd occassions when sailors and he shared the same space for a short time, why would drowning come up? Angiers knows it's a lie, he would tune out casual conversation nearby that contradicted it, and would never bring the idea up himself in conversation.

Oh, and Angiers was crazy.

I have too much free time.

 

[Destructor]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

Well, I actually did buy that plot point, because I have heard from heaps of my surfer friends the story about going 'down three times' and then coming to a sort of peace with drowning- they say that if you go down three times you're in grave danger because you cease fighting to stay alive. This is pretty common "knowledge" in surf rescue culture, that there is a sort of 'peaceful state' prior to death by drowning. Not to say that you don't eventually drown in agony, but to a husband looking for solace 100 years ago, sure, I totally buy that he'd believe that lie.

 

[Gaith]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

^ Weird. And while TeknoNurd's explanation is valiant and probably unimprovable, in-universe wise, I'm afraid I still don't buy it. Drowning is agony, and everyone knows it.

 

[TeknoNurd]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

^ Weird. And while TeknoNurd's explanation is valiant and probably unimprovable, in-universe wise, I'm afraid I still don't buy it. Drowning is agony, and everyone knows it.

Did I mention Angier's was crazy?

Crazy people can believe some pretty crazy things. In fact, I think that's why people that believed crazy things came to be called "crazy", but we'll check Wikipedia later.

Heck, if I was contemplating how to murder/suicide myself up to 100 times, I imagine I might latch on to ANYTHING that might ease my pain and guilt a bit. "Wait a second! I remember that Cain said drowing was nice... sure... sure, That's it... drowing... That's the ticket!"

Plus, Angiers was c.... well, you know.

 

[Anwar]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

Do you think Angier's wife knew he was a rich British Lord instead of an American Performer?

 

[TeknoNurd]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

Do you think Angier's wife knew he was a rich British Lord instead of an American Performer?

Interesting.

I think magicians, generally, are cagey characters, as their secrets are really all they have. Well that, and manual dexterity that is earned through years of practice). The movie emphasized the keeping of secrets part and perhaps even exaggerated the point.

We know that Bordon/Bordon never let the wives/lovers in on the secret, and we chalk that up to him being well down the crazy path by then, anyhow.

Angiers and Bordon/Borden were in competition professionally. It seemed they were also competing for the affections of Angier's Wife. She seemed on pretty friendly terms with Bordon/Bordon, since they apparently practiced magic enough on their own that they wanted to test a new knot. While they were practicing magic, perhaps they were also practicing magic. Angiers wasn't blind, and they were constantly in close quarters. Angiers seemed a bit testy (jealous perhaps?) just before the fatal trick.

Just based on Magician's natural caginess, I don't think Angier's had told her... yet. With everyone in such close quarters, revealing such a secret, even to the most trustworthy person, would be risky. When they were alone, doing their own act, he would probably have told her.

But, I convinced myself above that he would have been insecure in their relationship at that point, so he wouldn't have told her at that point.

Angier's was minimally in a fragile place before they went on stage that fateful night, what with his thoughts of infidelity and tying knots (hows that for some sort of metaphor?). Then she dies. Angiers already feels guilty for not telling her (not TRUSTING her) about his true life. Now, he feels guilty that he thought she was unfaithful (not TRUSTING her). All this guilt, the pain of her death is overwhelming. Bordon/Bordon tied a new knot or not and now she's dead... It's ALL Bordon/Bordon's fault. On top of that, he was having an affair with my Girl! (Hows that for Cognitive Dissonance?) He took my wife, destroyed my life. This is when Angiers starts running down the crazy path. It's also in this huge state change that Cain tells him drowning is like "going home" and this comfort gets wrapped in the crazy, to pop up later.

So, No, he didn't tell her

 

[Starbreaker]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

ANGIER
I don't think changing your name
compares.

JULIA
Not just your name- who you are,
where you're from...

ANGIER
I promised my family I wouldn't
embarrass them with my theatrical
endeavors.

This is right near the beginning of the movie after the first dunk tank scene.

 

[TeknoNurd]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

ANGIER
I don't think changing your name
compares.

JULIA
Not just your name- who you are,
where you're from...

ANGIER
I promised my family I wouldn't
embarrass them with my theatrical
endeavors.

This is right near the beginning of the movie after the first dunk tank scene.

That scene is wrong

 

[Chaos Descending]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

^^^

What do you mean? Did it not happen that way in the film?

 

[Starbreaker]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

I pulled that from the script. I don't remember the exact dialogue, but it's definitely in the movie. Every twist and turn is stated in dialogue in the movie if you rewatch it.

 

[TeknoNurd]

Re: The Prestige - finally saw it but have a small question(Huge Spoil

^^^

What do you mean? Did it not happen that way in the film?

Yes, it happened exactly as Starbreaker described. But, in light of my thorough and detailed analysis, that scene was obviously wrong.

In other words, we mustn't let reality or facts get in the way of a good explanation.