The powers of propaganda and media.

[JeffinOakland]

I think it is because Star Wars appeals to kids much more. When I was a boy in the late 70's and 80's, Star Wars was HUGE. Practically every little boy at my elementary school was a SW character for at least one Halloween (I was Chewbacca one year). The toys were hugely popular. "Playing" SW was huge at recess and at each others' houses. Contrast that w Star Trek, which had next to no popularity at my school. It was seen as "for nerds." Star Wars is more popular because they're basically children's movies. Lucas has admitted as much. Like the best children's movies, it has storytelling elements that appeal to adults. Star Trek has always been geared toward adults. It is more philosophically sophisticated and paced at a more "adult" level. I became (and still am) a SW fan when I was a little boy. I grew into Star Trek and didn't really begin to enjoy and appreciate it until well into adulthood.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I was playing Star Trek years before Star Wars came out. A tractor tire, partly buried to stand up in the playground area of one friend's backyard, was our Guardian of Forever. By 1977, my friends and I had (in our minds) outgrown physical role playing outside, and we were moving indoors to play D&D.

 

[MacLeod]

I don't know. I like the music to the 2009 STAR TREK movie and listen to it often. Haven't gotten around to picking up the soundtrack to INTO DARKNESS yet.

I was talking of series on TV in that particular case. Movies have some epic score those days.

Fair enough. Part of the issue there, of course, is that extended credits sequences on TV shows are going the way of the dinosaurs. It's not uncommon for a show to feature just a brief title card these days, in order to make time for more story.

Or if you cynical more ad time. I remember SG-1 tried to drop the title sequence. It did not go down well and they had to reinstate it.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

ST folks didn't pass up billions by being noble. They passed up billions by not doing it first.

You're generally right but I don't think that's entirely it. Star Trek did do it first. They licensed tons of merchandise, from the first AMT model kit in 1967 onward. They didn't snooze and miss the boat. Star Trek toys were all over the place in the 1970s.

But apparently, more children get excited about robots and X-wing fighters than the stuff from Star Trek.

Star Wars was designed for average children in the first place, while Star Trek was aimed at adults and appealed to intelligent, thoughtful kids without meaning to. And there just aren't as many of those kids.

I'll grant you maybe kids just found Star Wars merchandise more appealing, but Star Trek did not merchandise NEARLY to the extent Star Wars did.

The released models in the 60's sure....but kids don't generally build models and they break easily when you play with them.

They released some things like the bridge set and transporter set and a phaser toy and some action figures in the 70's......but they were NOT in large quantities and were not easy to find. They never made a decent quality toy of the Enterprise or a Klingon Cruiser. Even after Star Wars rewrote the book on film merchandise Star Trek STILL didn't try to hit it hard with the films.

Again they released models of the refit Enterprise and a few others, but those weren't for children. They could have made many toys after TWOK...A refit Enterprise, the Reliant, the bridge sets, the engine room etc.....but they did none of that. And I can tell you I would have been all over it if they had.

And what they did make was again hard to find. Star Wars on the other hand was in every Sears and JCPenney's catalogue and Toys R Us flyer had countless commercials on Saturday morning cartoons and everywhere else.

Yes Star Trek eventually made some toys like the Enterprise-D and some others in the 90's, but by then kids who loved ST weren't as interested in that stuff and it didn't have the nostalgia of SW toys they remembered as kids.

Nowadays most ST merchandise stuff is pretty high end collectors stuff more for adults and it's not going to sell in mass quantities.

ST may have done it before SW...but didn't realize it's full potential. I don't think they could have matched SW in merchandising even if they did things better, but they really could have cashed in more than they did IMHO.

 

[eyeresist]

Star Wars will explain exactly how a light sabre works, its history, and how they're built, along with the several different fighting styles and the philosophies behind each one.
...
Star Wars way of doing it latches on to the mainstream and marketing a bit more.
...
The way Star Wars describes it--is just cool to the average fan.

I don't think this kind of stuff has any effect on the majority of Star Wars fans. The average Star Wars fan has as much interest in names of light saber techniques as I have in the theoretical physics of warp drive, i.e. none at all. They just think the movies and toys look cool.

Star Trek, on the other hand has made (often unseen and unappreciated by the masses) huge impacts on how we as a species have and will move toward our horizon.
Look at the space shuttle Enterprise (and how the name came to be), the IXS Enterprise (and Alcubierre's work), the upcoming medical tricorders being developed etc etc.
You can be GUARANTEED that when we properly mature and become interstellar as a species, there will be aspects of Trek which will have given rise (at the very least in an inspirational sense) to what we will begin to be.
Star Wars will remain a fairy tale set in space, and I think will be considered much the same way we consider grainy old pre-war westerns. Maybe they will offer to show them at movie nights on board a future Enterprise.

I agree. The action fantasy of Star Wars may have more mainstream appeal, but scientists are much more likely to cite Trek as an inspiration, because it's about the possibilities for real science and our own society, not magical science in an fairytale culture.

I guess the "craft beer" analogy is the one we should use (though I prefer cider myself).

 

[The Wormhole]

I was talking of series on TV in that particular case. Movies have some epic score those days.

Fair enough. Part of the issue there, of course, is that extended credits sequences on TV shows are going the way of the dinosaurs. It's not uncommon for a show to feature just a brief title card these days, in order to make time for more story.

Or if you cynical more ad time. I remember SG-1 tried to drop the title sequence. It did not go down well and they had to reinstate it.

Same thing happened with Stargate Atlantis. Although SGU didn't have a title sequence at all.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Fair enough. Part of the issue there, of course, is that extended credits sequences on TV shows are going the way of the dinosaurs. It's not uncommon for a show to feature just a brief title card these days, in order to make time for more story.

According to sources I've read, the short credit sequences are used to make room for more commercials instead, unfortunately.

I've grown to hate that. Ending sequences are not much better. Whenever a show or movie ends, and out of habit you look for that familiar music and the scrolling credits, it's a downer when they shrink it or just blow through it quickly.

Star Wars will explain exactly how a light sabre works, its history, and how they're built, along with the several different fighting styles and the philosophies behind each one.
...
Star Wars way of doing it latches on to the mainstream and marketing a bit more.
...
The way Star Wars describes it--is just cool to the average fan.

I don't think this kind of stuff has any effect on the majority of Star Wars fans. The average Star Wars fan has as much interest in names of light saber techniques as I have in the theoretical physics of warp drive, i.e. none at all. They just think the movies and toys look cool.

The average fan, probably not. The ones that want to explore that world more after seeing the films--that's exactly the type of thing they'll want.

And it probably helps to create even more fans, or stabilize the fan base.

Star Wars fame survived off the first 3 films for a long time. The extended universe stuff probably did a lot to help that.

This is an example of how deeply some fans get into the whole thing.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRJr9DcRe4M[/yt]

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Thank you.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Honestly I've always hated this "Which is better Star Wars vs. Star Trek" crap.

Because, aside from the fact they are both sci-fi series, they really don't have that much in common.

Star Trek has had 5 TV series and 12 movies. There are literally hundreds of different, and often unconnected storylines, with dozens if not hundreds of important characters.

Star Wars currently has 6 movies covering one basic story arc with several subplots, with maybe 20 or so important characters. Of course that will change in December but still.

You're talking about Star Trek having hundreds of hours, maybe even a thousand versus Star Wars having about 15 hours. And I'm not getting into all that books and cartoons and expanded universe stuff. I'm talking about things that were filmed with actors and released for public consumption.

It's like comparing the collective works of Sherlock Holmes (Star Trek) to War and Peace (Star Wars).

Even their lives are completely different. Star Trek was something that was created, found a niche audience but not enough to keep it on air, and died within 3 years. It experienced an amazing comeback from the dead and has proven durable enough to be spun off into all aforementioned creations.

Star Wars was a total surprise and became a MEGA sensation the likes of which film had never seen before and if I ran the world the OT would have been made and that would have been it and history could marvel how from 1977 to 1983 an epic that has few equals dominated pop culture.

Of course Lucas couldn't leave well enough and......you know the rest. Our society can't ever let something great just be, gotta milk it for more money. Hell they even wrote a sequel to "Gone With the Wind" in the 90's.

Back in the 40's it was filmed, it was a huge hit, it changed the film industry and it was left alone to bask in immortality for all eternity. They didn't start drafting "Return of the Wind" after it broke all box office records and, so far, no one has been stupid to try and remake or "reboot" it.

That should have been the Star Wars Triology.

And I also can't stand how it's been simplified by so many that "Star Wars was more action and effects where Star Trek was more thought provoking and cerebral" The Empire Strikes Back had moments that were every bit as emotional and deep as anything Star Trek did. Likewise things like Nemesis and the reboots have had just as many space battles and other action sequence as did Star Wars......to that's just a dumb stance to take IMHO.

Star Trek may not have ever had the "HOLY SHIT!!!!!" moments Star Wars did with the public but it has proven to be more flexible to expanding itself, where Star Wars has not and I don't believe it will do so in a good way in any future films.

The ONE thing Star Wars did that put far ahead of Star Trek in the public's mind was the MERCHANDISING!!!!! Say what you want about George Lucas but his act of keeping the merchandising rights is one of the most brilliant moves in film or business history and he absolutely killed it.

Star Trek had a head start in this area but the never moved on it. There were a few things here and there, but you could never find toys of the Enterprise and other ships or action figures or sets in the quantity and quality if Star Wars in the 70's and 80's and early 90's. And by the time they did start to release these things it was impossible to match Star Wars.

I mean TO THIS DAY you can't find a decent sized replica (or toy) of the Refit Enterprise or the Reliant....Something I would have bought in a heartbeat as a kid had they released ones of similarity quality to Star Wars ships. They've made the smaller ones which are nice, but if you want say a 1/400 scale then you'd better be a great model builder or pay a shitload for someone to do it, because that's the only way you're ever going to get one.

Star Trek failed MISERABLY in the merchandising department and Star Wars jumped on it and crushed it. That to me is the difference in popularity for a lot of people. I wouldn't call that propaganda I would call it a brilliant move on Lucas' part and a major screw up by Paramount.

You sir, understood what i was trying to say completely, so, my mistake, wen i said propaganda, yes, i was referring to toys, replicas, miniatures etc. I am sorry for my bad writing, i'm not native english speaker, in fact, i'm still learning it. It seemed the best way to explain at the time i write the post. I also, did not knew that Paramount had not tried much on the market, i tough that the market simply preferred Wars stuff to Trek (what i, wrongly called "propaganda")

Sorry, and thanks for the patience (and for clearing my point to others and myself )

But the thing that remains is... why does the NEW people still prefer Wars stuff than Trek? Since Trek HAS merchandise today?

Thank you.

Well like explained before Star Trek does have a lot more merchandise but much of it is higher end collectors item stuff that can be pricey and is geared towards collectors, not a wide audience.

And even if they did have tons and tons of toys, the fact they didn't make them in the 70's and 80's in large quantities would still put it behind Star Wars. Because those of us who had the toys when were 10 years old, see them again and either want them for ourselves to recapture a part of our youth, or for our children to experience.

I see a Playmates Enterprise-D and think.....that's kind of cool looking, but I don't have a nostalgic bond with it so I'm less inclined to buy it.

If they'd made some quality Enterprise and Reliant toys in 1982 and I bought them and eventually they got forgotten about and thrown out....Then, if they were to re release them when I'm 35 I'd probably go "OMG the Enterprise and Reliant....I loved those toys and, for one reason or another, I'd be far more likely to buy one.

 

[Salinga]

Star Wars is about distraction, Star Trek is about reflection.