The positive Voyager thread: What was good with the series?

[Guy Gardener]

Harry was looking to explore a romantic relationship with Seven. He was attracted to her. That doesn't mean he wanted to bang her then and there in the mess hall. He's not an animal

but she didn't want to bang him either.

Seven was trying to scare Harry off, and he was too dumb to figure that out, so he doesn't deserve to get any of that, if it had been on offer, which it wasn't.

Seven couldn't eat food at that point, so I doubt any of her sex/reproductive stuff was up to snuff, even for the most naive manchild on Voyager. Disconnected and nonpresent pipes, hells, I wouldn't be surprised if the Borg put a few hard drives where her uterus should have been lodged.

Besides, her cortical limiter would have killed Seven if she banged Harry.

 

[Discofan]

None of this seems remotely positive, does it? You and a few others here derail every conversation into the same cesspool of negativity. Hey, It's about time for that Kes idiot to chime in, isn't it? I think you're the reason I got disgusted and left this forum the first time.

Here's one since you seem to like your adjectives: Babbling jackass.

All of this is about two imaginary characters and that only means that I am consistent!!

Now if you could stop harassing and stalking me that would be very nice.

 

[Discofan]

....

Besides, her cortical limiter would have killed Seven if she banged Harry.

Only if she took pleasure in it and the chances of that happening are one in a zillion!!!

 

[Starflight]

Here she wouldn't have a leg to stand on, except that she's a tyrannical sexually repressed bitch, but that's what she is all the time anyway.

Whoa, that's a weirdly nasty way to phrase a point. But putting that aside, I don't get it. I can't remember any occasions where she came across as sexually repressed. She had a fiance back on Earth for most of the series, but even aside from that, I'm pretty sure she had more romantic relationships than Picard did, and I wouldn't consider Picard sexually repressed. At the very worst, he was just sort of socially awkward and not interested in pursuing casual relationships.

On the Seven/Harry stuff, I always thought she was essentially a child mentally, or at least suffering from severe arrested development. Even if she wasn't, though, if someone came up to me out of the blue and asked to "copulate" or whatever in the same tone she did, I can easily see my self feeling scared/panicked and trying to leave, no matter how attracted to them I was.

It's been a while since I last saw the episode so I can't pick out exact quotes, but the way Chakotay dealt with Harry's complaint always pissed me off. Harry makes it clear he's extremely uncomfortable working with Seven after what she did, and Chakotay laughs it up and orders him back to work. Great stuff, Chakotay.

 

[Discofan]

Whoa, that's a weirdly nasty way to phrase a point. But putting that aside, I don't get it. I can't remember any occasions where she came across as sexually repressed. She had a fiance back on Earth for most of the series, but even aside from that, I'm pretty sure she had more romantic relationships than Picard did, and I wouldn't consider Picard sexually repressed. At the very worst, he was just sort of socially awkward and not interested in pursuing casual relationships.
.....

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember Picard coming down hard on someone for having sexual relations. Janeway didn't just do so once but several times. I can list at least three and I am not even trying!!

She's practically the embodiment of the American religious right sexual morality!

 

[Prax]

It was a stumbling fool damaging the sexual growth of a woman he had sent mixed signals to.

The sexual growth? I feel like I should be alarmed at some of these kinds of comments. Do you feel it's necessary that Seven be immediately deflowered with casual sex in a public place? What if Seven decides she is not interested in sexual relations after all, and never ever changes her mind? Would that be acceptable.

If I was Janeway and I caught ensign Kim screwing the very recently liberated Borg in the messhall, I would demote him. That's exactly what would happen in the real world. That's how sensible, and considerate people think, whether they have an active sex life or not.

Janeway's treatment of Kim in the later episode had nothing to do with sex.

 

[Starflight]

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember Picard coming down hard on someone for having sexual relations. Janeway didn't just do so once but several times. I can list at least three and I am not even trying!!

She's practically the embodiment of the American religious right sexual morality!

Again, the episode in question is a bit of a distant memory for me at this point, but wasn't her argument one in favour of Starfleet protocol and safety - that Kim should have cleared it with the Doctor first, as human relations with an unknown alien could lead to all sorts of complications or pathogens?

Kim could have got pregnant due to some weird alien biological rules, or got a slimy thing stuck to his face.

 

[Discofan]

The sexual growth? I feel like I should be alarmed at some of these kinds of comments. Do you feel it's necessary that Seven be immediately deflowered with casual sex in a public place? What if Seven decides she is not interested in sexual relations after all, and never ever changes her mind? Would that be acceptable.

If I was Janeway and I caught ensign Kim screwing the very recently liberated Borg in the messhall, I would demote him. That's exactly what would happen in the real world. That's how sensible, and considerate people think, whether they have an active sex life or not.

Janeway's treatment of Kim in the later episode had nothing to do with sex.

Most people I know have been deflowered in the most awkward places for most of them it's just a funny anecdote, nothing more. The idea that people should repress their sexual urges until they find the "right person" has been the cause of more sexual misery than anything else and is the major reason for thriving sexologists.

The more people are conflicted with one another the happier and richer the lawyers get, the more people are conflicted with themselves the happier and richer mental specialists get.

Americans have thriving people in both domains, more so than any other country in the world.

Stop imposing your morals on the rest of the world as if they were universal laws.

 

[Prax]

Most people I know have been deflowered in the most awkward places for most of them it's just a funny anecdote, nothing more. The idea that people should repress their sexual urges until they find the "right person" has been the cause of more sexual misery than anything else and is the major reason for thriving sexologists.

The more people are conflicted with one another the happier and richer the lawyers get, the more people are conflicted with themselves the happier and richer mental specialists get.

Americans have thriving people in both domains, more so than any other country in the world.

Stop imposing your morals on the rest of the world as if they were universal laws.

Morals? What about laws? What about rules, or the UCMJ which Kim is beholden to.
"Repressing sexual urges"?! Seven has no sexual urges. Nor does she have the experience to know better. Ensign Kim does, and is not interested in taking advantage of her. How is Seven to be considered anyway? Does she have a fully cognizant adult mind?

Stop imposing your morals, or lack of morals on others. You are essentially criticizing ensign Kim for his own standards of morality

You're going to have to learn to separate your own condition from others. People don't just walk around craving sex all the time. Sex is not needed to relieve stress. Whether Janeway has an active sex life should not be a consideration of whether or why she is a "tyrannical bitch" or not.
There are many people who never have sex and function just fine. The human body will adapt to whatever routine or environment it finds itself in.

 

[Discofan]

Morals? What about laws? What about rules, or the UCMJ which Kim is beholden to.
"Repressing sexual urges"?! Seven has no sexual urges. Nor does she have the experience to know better. Ensign Kim does, and is not interested in taking advantage of her. How is Seven to be considered anyway? Does she have a fully cognizant adult mind?

Stop imposing your morals, or lack of morals on others. You are essentially criticizing ensign Kim for his own standards of morality

You're going to have to learn to separate your own condition from others. People don't just walk around craving sex all the time. Sex is not needed to relieve stress. Whether Janeway has an active sex life should not be a consideration of whether or why she is a "tyrannical bitch" or not.
There are many people who never have sex and function just fine. The human body will adapt to whatever routine or environment it finds itself in.

So you keep saying (not just you but plenty others as well) but it's contrary to the human experience. People who are repressed sexually, be it "by choice" or because of peer pressure, end up resenting people who aren't and it shows. They don't act as if they'd want to have a better sex life, they just want everyone else to have one that is as shitty as theirs!!

Seven was justifiably intrigued by human sexuality. Too bad for her that for her first choice she had to pick a dork like Harry Kim.

 

[Prax]

Yes, that must be it...

 

[Starflight]

So you keep saying (not just you but plenty others as well) but it's contrary to the human experience.

Well, I mean, I don't walk around wanting to have sex 90% of the time. I don't like the episode's subplot for a bunch of reasons, but I did quite like Kim's reaction. Even today it's all too unusual to see male characters in fiction who defy the stereotype of wanting to have sex with anything that moves at all times. That's not how I feel or act, that's not how most of my male friends act, or most of my female friends for that matter.

Before you say anything, my sex life is utterly supreme. It's actually mind-blowing how good it is. If they made a film about it, it'd be rated too hot for human viewing.

Also, if you're saying Kim's reaction was driven by "sexual repression" (I'm not sure if that's what you were saying, this thread is a little all over the place) then I'd disagree, I think the scene can be easily read as Kim - in addition to being very understandably upset at having someone make sudden sexual advances on him - realising that Seven's situation as a newly-liberated ex-Borg didn't necessarily put her in a position where accepting her advances would have been the empathetic thing to do, given her very obvious lack of understanding about the value that human cultures place around sex, the impact sexual experiences can have on people, etc.

 

[Discofan]

Well, I mean, I don't walk around wanting to have sex 90% of the time...

That's the typical nonsense we hear all the time but people who get enough sex don't do that just a people who are well fed don't spend their time thinking about food. Sure some have an eating disorder just as some have the same disorder relative to sex but those are the exception rather than the rule. People who deprive themselves of sex for diverse reasons think that the ones who don't, think of sex all the time because that's what they do themselves. So it's rather ironic when you stop to think about it.

 

[Starflight]

Oh, I thought you were saying obsessing over sex every waking hour was the "human experience" and that you didn't believe that people didn't think that way. I've probably misread.

Kim's reaction makes sense then, right? If someone you didn't know particularly well approached you and demanded "COPULATE", you'd be perturbed to say the least, surely.

 

[Discofan]

Oh, I thought you were saying obsessing over sex every waking hour was the "human experience" and that you didn't believe that people didn't think that way. I've probably misread.

Kim's reaction makes sense then, right? If someone you didn't know particularly well approached you and demanded "COPULATE", you'd be perturbed to say the least, surely.

Not at all. He should have been aware that he was sending signals that he wanted to go out with her. Any woman would have felt that way, not just Seven. Some (if not most) would have probably declined the invitation as it was rather clumsy. But by any standards, Seven is a very beautiful woman, one would have to be a fool to refuse to go out with her, especially under these conditions. NO the right thing to do would have been to go along with what he's started even at the risk of being chastised by the crazy bitch that shall go unnamed because I already named her!!!

Seven had taken the initiative, refusing her now could have dire consequences for her self-confidence. So when something is so much in the interest of both parties, preventing it from happening is almost a crime.

 

[Nightdiamond]

For the record-- Jeri Ryan wasn't a fan of the scene. Garrett Wang hated the end of the scene. The Doctor had a crush on her too. Chakoteh ended up with her.

Ultimately, Harry probably saved himself a lot of trouble by declining. Seven is unbelievably hot, but not normal.

A minor problem is Harry was reaching a little bit himself. He invited her to come work with him at midnight. After hours. Then tried to invite her to a romantic holodeck program in the middle of the night.
All of that after working a few days together with NO FLIRTING SIGNALS from either.

If Seven went along, followed through with the romantic advances and they slept together that night (in Harry's room) would it still be the same thing?

I see similar things from the other shows like with Data and Yar, Geordi and that hologram Dr. Brahms. Crusher and Riker and some other. Hooking up between co workers is pretty common in Star Trek.

 

[jmidnight_99]

All of this is about two imaginary characters and that only means that I am consistent!!

Now if you could stop harassing and stalking me that would be very nice.

Years ago I was a moderator for a forum similar to this, and I learned a lot. One of the things I learned was that people like you choose words very carefully, to incite and fish for trouble, then when you get what you're fishing for, you immediately turn around and cry that you're the one who is being victimized.

I was never fooled by it. Why would I be? I I saw it again and again. I learned that when I booted all the 'victimized" inciters and fishers, ALL the problems stopped.

"Bitch" "Fool" "Fool" "Fool" "Idiot" and all the colorful words you can't seem to go 5 minutes without using incite, because they do not make one's experience here positive or pleasant. I said it once, I'll say it again. If you hate this show this much, go find a "Three and Half Men" forum to haunt. Go Incite arguments there, where the show is far closer to your level.

 

[jmidnight_99]

For the record-- Jeri Ryan wasn't a fan of the scene. Garrett Wang hated the end of the scene. The Doctor had a crush on her too. Chakoteh ended up with her.

Ultimately, Harry probably saved himself a lot of trouble by declining. Seven is unbelievably hot, but not normal.

A minor problem is Harry was reaching a little bit himself. He invited her to come work with him at midnight. After hours. Then tried to invite her to a romantic holodeck program in the middle of the night.
All of that after working a few days together with NO FLIRTING SIGNALS from either.

If Seven went along, followed through with the romantic advances and they slept together that night (in Harry's room) would it still be the same thing?

I see similar things from the other shows like with Data and Yar, Geordi and that hologram Dr. Brahms. Crusher and Riker and some other. Hooking up between co workers is pretty common in Star Trek.

And in real life apparently.

 

[Akiraprise]

Here she wouldn't have a leg to stand on, except that she's a tyrannical sexually repressed bitch, but that's what she is all the time anyway.

Seven was the one who asked and I strongly believe that the refusal did more harm than anything else he could have done, even a bad first sexual experience is better than rejection. She was perfectly right to interpret his moves as sexual advances. She couldn't have anticipated that he was such an awkward idiot. Harry wasn't sensible here, he was a damaging fool. Instead of helping Seven to grow up, and grow out of her isolation and become more social. he confused her and likely caused her to regress in that area.

It was a stumbling fool damaging the sexual growth of a woman he had sent mixed signals to.

I'm not sure if you truly believe this stuff or are just trolling. I'm going to ponder that for a bit. But you can tone down the crass sexual innuendo.
Edit: I pondered and truly don't think these comments towards and about women have a place in this forum. Saying we're only talking about a fictional character in Seven isn't going to fly. Infraction issued for trolling.

None of this seems remotely positive, does it? You and a few others here derail every conversation into the same cesspool of negativity. Hey, It's about time for that Kes idiot to chime in, isn't it? I think you're the reason I got disgusted and left this forum the first time.

Here's one since you seem to like your adjectives: Babbling jackass.

Thank you for using the multi-quote. However you also get an infraction for Flaming other members.

You both seem to enjoy needling each other and it's derailing threads. Enough.

 

[Lynx]

None of this seems remotely positive, does it? You and a few others here derail every conversation into the same cesspool of negativity. Hey, It's about time for that Kes idiot to chime in, isn't it? I think you're the reason I got disgusted and left this forum the first time.

Here's one since you seem to like your adjectives: Babbling jackass.

Is it me you refer to as the "Kes idiot"?

I noted the comment and will remember it. I don't like personal insults.