The Phantom Menace 3D Release

[cooleddie74]

^
Oh, Palpatine/Sidious would have killed Obi-Wan in minutes...if not seconds. Look how quickly he disposed of Agen Kolar, Kit Fisto and Saesee Tiin...three of the most experienced and talented swordsmen in the entire Jedi Order. The only Jedi powerful and skilled enough to (almost) defeat Palpatine were Yoda and Mace Windu, and Mace would have killed him had Anakin not stepped in at the last second.

That lightsaber fight is just ridiculous. Instead of showing how badass Palpatine is by taking out three Jedi masters so quickly, you're left wondering why two of them just stand there and get stabbed. Very poor fight design.

Everybody under estmates Palpatine, Luke threw away his lightsaber and got hit by Force lightning, even Yoda took a blast while just standing there monologuing.

Palpatine spent at least two decades as an unassuming politician and using the Dark Side to shield his true identity from everyone else, even the vaunted Jedi. Of course they underestimated him. Everyone did for years, and it was meant to be that way. His humble- nice-guy persona was necessary in order to win the support of the Senate and rise to power.

 

[DWF]

That lightsaber fight is just ridiculous. Instead of showing how badass Palpatine is by taking out three Jedi masters so quickly, you're left wondering why two of them just stand there and get stabbed. Very poor fight design.

Everybody under estmates Palpatine, Luke threw away his lightsaber and got hit by Force lightning, even Yoda took a blast while just standing there monologuing.

Palpatine spent at least two decades as an unassuming politician and using the Dark Side to shield his true identity from everyone else, even the vaunted Jedi. Of course they underestimated him. Everyone did for years, and it was meant to be that way. His humble- nice-guy persona was necessary in order to win the support of the Senate and rise to power.

That demeanor should've affected the Jedi though, the movies seemed to imply that he was somehow able to dampen their ability to recongnize the dark side. Plus as the novel of the movie suggests Palpatine learned from the mistakes of the past Sith loses. I know I was alittle shocked when he first used Force lightning on Luke even though I suspected he was more powerful Vader, he had to be to be Vader's boss.

 

[cooleddie74]

Everybody under estmates Palpatine, Luke threw away his lightsaber and got hit by Force lightning, even Yoda took a blast while just standing there monologuing.

Palpatine spent at least two decades as an unassuming politician and using the Dark Side to shield his true identity from everyone else, even the vaunted Jedi. Of course they underestimated him. Everyone did for years, and it was meant to be that way. His humble- nice-guy persona was necessary in order to win the support of the Senate and rise to power.

That demeanor should've affected the Jedi though, the movies seemed to imply that he was somehow able to dampen their ability to recongnize the dark side. Plus as the novel of the movie suggests Palpatine learned from the mistakes of the past Sith loses. I know I was alittle shocked when he first used Force lightning on Luke even though I suspected he was more powerful Vader, he had to be to be Vader's boss.

Palpatine's shield/screen wasn't 100% perfect, though...in CLONES when the Chancellor suggests that Padme be put under Jedi protection for her own safety, Yoda turns and gives him this look that says "something about you just ISN'T right...I just can't put my little green finger on it." So even if none of the other Jedi had suspicions, Yoda certainly thought(at least the one time anyways) that Palpatine might have been up to no good. But since he had no concrete proof to take to the rest of the Council he kept his mouth shut.

 

[Set Harth]

In the book and I think script, after Grievous says he's been trained in the Jedi Arts by Count Dooku, Obi-Wan tells him he trained the man who defeated Dooku.

I really loved that line. So badass. Too bad it wasn't in the movie.

The problem with that line in the novel is that Obi-Wan recognizes Dooku's Sith name, which is an error. This seems to be an increasing tendency in these books, as authors make the mistake of assuming that the characters know everything that the audience knows.

 

[cooleddie74]

To the best of my personal knowledge, none of the Jedi ever learned that Count Dooku and "Lord Tyranus" were one and the same individual. Only Palpatine and the inner circle of Separatist leaders knew that Dooku used the Sith name Darth Tyranus.

 

[Set Harth]

That's what I'm saying.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, the Tyranus name was on a need-to-know basis within the Separatist movement. Jango Fett knew that Dooku was Tyranus since he had originally recruited Jango into the Kamino cloning project, but since he didn't live long enough to be interrogated by the Jedi it didn't really matter.

 

[DWF]

Palpatine spent at least two decades as an unassuming politician and using the Dark Side to shield his true identity from everyone else, even the vaunted Jedi. Of course they underestimated him. Everyone did for years, and it was meant to be that way. His humble- nice-guy persona was necessary in order to win the support of the Senate and rise to power.

That demeanor should've affected the Jedi though, the movies seemed to imply that he was somehow able to dampen their ability to recongnize the dark side. Plus as the novel of the movie suggests Palpatine learned from the mistakes of the past Sith loses. I know I was alittle shocked when he first used Force lightning on Luke even though I suspected he was more powerful Vader, he had to be to be Vader's boss.

Palpatine's shield/screen wasn't 100% perfect, though...in CLONES when the Chancellor suggests that Padme be put under Jedi protection for her own safety, Yoda turns and gives him this look that says "something about you just ISN'T right...I just can't put my little green finger on it." So even if none of the other Jedi had suspicions, Yoda certainly thought(at least the one time anyways) that Palpatine might have been up to no good. But since he had no concrete proof to take to the rest of the Council he kept his mouth shut.

Well Obi-Wan sensed something was wrong from his very first scene in Phantom Menace. I think generally Yoda was a bit more insightful then most of the other Jedi, he knew Anakin might be trouble down the road as well.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yoda knew that Anakin was destined for disaster, but for the sake of Council unity and the Prophecy of the Chosen One he caved and convinced the rest of the Council to let Obi-Wan train him as his apprentice. I wonder how often in exile on Dagobah he just sat in his little hut and thought: "If more forceful I had been at the beginning...none of this would have happened."

 

[Shazam!]

I don't think Yoda convinced the council - I think they convinced him.

"Agree on you taking this boy as your Padawan learner, I do not."

 

[cooleddie74]

Well, either way he caved. I'm sure he had more than few regrets about it later in life...prophecy or not.

 

[DWF]

Yoda knew that Anakin was destined for disaster, but for the sake of Council unity and the Prophecy of the Chosen One he caved and convinced the rest of the Council to let Obi-Wan train him as his apprentice. I wonder how often in exile on Dagobah he just sat in his little hut and thought: "If more forceful I had been at the beginning...none of this would have happened."

Given Yoda's revelation in the novel during his battle with Palpatine I'd say he was just biding his time til Luke was old to become a Jedi and come to him for training.

 

[cooleddie74]

The coffee table book STAR WARS LOCATIONS by Kristin Lund goes so far as to state that Yoda used the Force to keep a psychic eye on Luke and Leia as they grew and matured and waited for the day one or both of the twins would realize their Force potential and seek him out for training. Yoda basically spent 23 years in exile in a mud, stone and vine hut waiting for one or two people to receive a ghostly visitation from Obi-Wan and come looking for him. Only a Jedi Master of Yoda's patience could have waited that long.

 

[Set Harth]

The coffee table book STAR WARS LOCATIONS by Kristin Lund goes so far as to state that Yoda used the Force to keep a psychic eye on Luke and Leia as they grew and matured and waited for the day one or both of the twins would realize their Force potential and seek him out for training.

Yoda basically says the same thing in TESB ( without referring to Leia, of course ).

 

[cooleddie74]

The coffee table book STAR WARS LOCATIONS by Kristin Lund goes so far as to state that Yoda used the Force to keep a psychic eye on Luke and Leia as they grew and matured and waited for the day one or both of the twins would realize their Force potential and seek him out for training.

Yoda basically says the same thing in TESB ( without referring to Leia, of course ).

True. But the Lund book elaborates a little more on it. A lot of books don't explain how Yoda kept an eye on the twins during all those years.

 

[DWF]

The coffee table book STAR WARS LOCATIONS by Kristin Lund goes so far as to state that Yoda used the Force to keep a psychic eye on Luke and Leia as they grew and matured and waited for the day one or both of the twins would realize their Force potential and seek him out for training. Yoda basically spent 23 years in exile in a mud, stone and vine hut waiting for one or two people to receive a ghostly visitation from Obi-Wan and come looking for him. Only a Jedi Master of Yoda's patience could have waited that long.

Maybe he had cable in his man cave and could watch pod races whenever he wanted.

 

[sonak]

Well, either way he caved. I'm sure he had more than few regrets about it later in life...prophecy or not.

the funny thing about the prequels is that Anakin turns out to be mostly irrelevant to the rise of the empire-he kills some unarmed diplomats on Mustafar and kills some children and whatever low-level Jedi are left at the temple and not out fighting the Clone Wars. He only does the second thing with the help of a bunch of clone troopers.

Nute Gunray and Dooku turn out to be far more helpful to Palpatine than Anakin.

 

[DarthPipes]

Dooku and the clones do a LOT of the work but it all comes down to Anakin's decision. Anakin turning to the Dark Side ensured Palpatine's takeover. If Anakin hadn't, Palpatine would have fallen.

 

[cooleddie74]

Dooku and the clones do a LOT of the work but it all comes down to Anakin's decision. Anakin turning to the Dark Side ensured Palpatine's takeover. If Anakin hadn't, Palpatine would have fallen.

AND been killed. Mace Windu was mere seconds away from striking him down. Anakin's intervention was the only thing that saved Palpatine from certain death.

 

[DarthPipes]

Dooku and the clones do a LOT of the work but it all comes down to Anakin's decision. Anakin turning to the Dark Side ensured Palpatine's takeover. If Anakin hadn't, Palpatine would have fallen.

AND been killed. Mace Windu was mere seconds away from striking him down. Anakin's intervention was the only thing that saved Palpatine from certain death.

I still have doubts as to whether Palpatine was really in a place to be killed. He goes from feigning weakness to lighting up Mace like a Christmas tree in a matter of moments.